Steamed Up (The car AND ME!) NO LONGER!!

[Carnut]

Greendwarf said Hillman Husky, Hillman Minx, Morris Minor, Ford Prefect, Cortina, Capri, Avenger, Minis
I have had in the past Morris 1000 woody, Capri, Avengers (2) mini (4) never had the problem. None of which had A/C of course.
Some peeps seem to think (or have I misunderstood?) that you should 'RECIRCULATE to clear the condensation? The only experience I have had of this was when driving my new (1989) Discovery home with wife and 2 kids the thing fugged up badly. Until I realized that the little darlings, being excited by Daddy's new car, had been pressing buttons and closed the air intake. as soon as I cancelled recirculate the fug cleared within seconds.
I certainly seem to have opened a can of worms with this thread.
I reiterate my point! Many people have experienced this problem including my Mitsu dealer sales manager. Whereas MOST other cars do not suffer from the problem.MY POINT IS......... IDON'T CARE WHAT IS CAUSING IT OR HOW YOU GET RID OF IT ! IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!. I DO NOT EXPECT TO SPEND ALL THIS MONEY ON A CAR AND HAVE TO DEFUG IT EVERY MORNING BEFORE I CAN DRIVE OFF, ESPECIALLY SINCE, AS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY SAID, IT IS A HYBRID AND USING A/C USES ENERGY WHICH DEFEATS THE OBJECT!
Does the diesel version do it, does anyone know??

 

[Kim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCmgWiEEZwA

 

[Icerunner]

Greendwarf said Hillman Husky, Hillman Minx, Morris Minor, Ford Prefect, Cortina, Capri, Avenger, Minis
I have had in the past Morris 1000 woody, Capri, Avengers (2) mini (4) never had the problem. None of which had A/C of course.
Some peeps seem to think (or have I misunderstood?) that you should 'RECIRCULATE to clear the condensation? The only experience I have had of this was when driving my new (1989) Discovery home with wife and 2 kids the thing fugged up badly. Until I realized that the little darlings, being excited by Daddy's new car, had been pressing buttons and closed the air intake. as soon as I cancelled recirculate the fug cleared within seconds.
I certainly seem to have opened a can of worms with this thread.
I reiterate my point! Many people have experienced this problem including my Mitsu dealer sales manager. Whereas MOST other cars do not suffer from the problem.MY POINT IS......... IDON'T CARE WHAT IS CAUSING IT OR HOW YOU GET RID OF IT ! IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!. I DO NOT EXPECT TO SPEND ALL THIS MONEY ON A CAR AND HAVE TO DEFUG IT EVERY MORNING BEFORE I CAN DRIVE OFF, ESPECIALLY SINCE, AS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY SAID, IT IS A HYBRID AND USING A/C USES ENERGY WHICH DEFEATS THE OBJECT!
Does the diesel version do it, does anyone know??

Weird sense of humour alert!

On-topic: 1 person did seem to suggest to recirculate - definitely not advisable indeed
I don't know if it applies, but maybe due to the temperature of the batteries there is some humidity build up underneath the seating, if you don;t regularly run the A/C? I own the PHEV since may 2014, and have been from minus 10 to + 45 degrees Celcius, in foggy, humid weather, in dry weather, etcetera. I actually only can remind I had some fog just once, recently, and was amzed by it since I hadn't seen fog in a car in over a year. The day before the foggy-morning-car I had the AC turned of during the trip...

 

[maby]

Recirculate should only be a fairly short term measure to get the condensation under control.

 

[Titan]

I thought whole point of con systems was dehumidify the air and more importantly, vent/drain the moisture externally. That way, it shouldn't linger around to resaturate the drier air. Hence why air con with recirculation, no aircon/heating with fresh air. Running aircon with fresh air means the system is always going to be fighting a losing battle, as any moisture extracted is simply replaced by the fresh, wet air. Conversely, never run recirc without aircon, as the moisture build up from wet clothes, breath etc just builds and builds.

 

[Kim]

I thought whole point of con systems was dehumidify the air and more importantly, vent/drain the moisture externally. That way, it shouldn't linger around to resaturate the drier air. Hence why air con with recirculation, no aircon/heating with fresh air. Running aircon with fresh air means the system is always going to be fighting a losing battle, as any moisture extracted is simply replaced by the fresh, wet air. Conversely, never run recirc without aircon, as the moisture build up from wet clothes, breath etc just builds and builds.

May I suggest that you spare the 6.5 minutes and watch the video I posted?
The guy even explains where your thinking is wrong.

And.... he even is a rocket scientist....

 

[Titan]

May I suggest that you spare the 6.5 minutes and watch the video I posted?
The guy even explains where your thinking is wrong.

And.... he even is a rocket scientist....

I'll admit I didn't look at it. I tend to pass over embedded videos with no accompanying text. That said, it doesn't answer my question about the air con draining extracted moisture externally. Further, if it's pissing with rain outside, the external air is unlikely to be dryer.

 

[maby]

May I suggest that you spare the 6.5 minutes and watch the video I posted?
The guy even explains where your thinking is wrong.

And.... he even is a rocket scientist....

I'll admit I didn't look at it. I tend to pass over embedded videos with no accompanying text. That said, it doesn't answer my question about the air con draining extracted moisture externally. Further, if it's pissing with rain outside, the external air is unlikely to be dryer.

Don't forget that humidity is inversely proportional to temperature. When we arrive at the boat after several days locked up, the humidity will often be reading 90% or more with a temperature of 5 or 6 degrees. If I turn the heating on, the temperature will soon get up to 20 degrees and the humidity will be down to 60 or 70%. I have not run the dehumidifier and the air contains exactly the same amount of water - but at the higher temperature that equates to a significantly lower humidity.

The air outside could be close to 100% humidity, but after it has been through the heater, it will not fog your car.

 

[Claymore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCmgWiEEZwA

I think this guy has nailed it.

I'm not sure my preference for not running the ICE for local trips fits the formula but I like the idea of the big dry towel analogy and would probably convert this to reality by using a big dry towel to mop up the water.

JimB

 

[greendwarf]

May I suggest that you spare the 6.5 minutes and watch the video I posted?
The guy even explains where your thinking is wrong.

And.... he even is a rocket scientist....

I'll admit I didn't look at it. I tend to pass over embedded videos with no accompanying text. That said, it doesn't answer my question about the air con draining extracted moisture externally. Further, if it's pissing with rain outside, the external air is unlikely to be dryer.

My point was when you turn off the ignition the moisture left in in the A/C system will evaporate again back into the car, especially if this happens when the external temp drops, e.g. overnight.

What the video fails to point out about a car is that the condensation occurs at the warm air/ cold surface barrier. So it is the heat & blower that keeps the surface temp of the screen warmed up to stop further condensation and that having the windows slightly open is merely allowing the warmer moisture laden air out of the car rather than, as he suggests bringing in drier/colder air to absorb it.

 

[karl]

My car too. To the point that I suspected a leaking heater.

But then I decided that it's the mild winter... And just pushed the de-mist button when it happens...

 

[TC1978]

I don't think the pre-heat takes any notice of the temperature set on the AC, does it? My impression is that it runs the heater at a fairly high setting for 10 minutes regardless of the internal temperature setting.

Correct. I heat mine on the timer for 20 minutes in the mornings before setting off, then crank the butt toaster and hand warmer when I get in it and don't touch the blowers until the fog gets quite bad, then tap a button to start the AC which is still in its 'normal' position (15-17 C) for 30 seconds or so to dehumidify. ICE doesn't fire up.

 

[Carnut]

Frosted windscreen this morning.
Water dripping off sun roof! 7 minutes with heater and a/c on to clear the screen before I could drive off. With two windows open.
I am losing patience with this heap of junk!

 

[Claymore]

I'm not convinced that the pre heat overrides the temperature set on the heater.

When I previously had the heater set to 21 the car was very noticeably warm when I got in.

Following recent discussions here I set the heater to 15 and this morning the car was nothing like as warm when I got in. It was warmer than outside the car because that was just over freezing...and this occasion the car had been on preheat rather longer than usual.

On start the car showed 18 miles EV range, a new low record for me, in fact I was initially convinced the overnight charge had failed (although I don't now think it had).

Travelled nine miles to a supermarket using seat heaters only. On the way back to another supermarket I got fed up demisting with freezing cold air blasting round the place (and the freezing looks from the passenger seat) and hit demist initially shortly followed by auto (I was full of joie de vivre having decided I was also fed up being told to refuel for the past week and had decided to splash the cash on motion lotion at the next supermarket) even though I was convinced that the minute I did it prices would fall another 10%. How long BTW before it's cheaper to run the PHEV on petrol rather than electricity?

Accompanied by the DINDIN, DINDIN, DINDIN 'Jaws' theme the ICE started. It ran for about a minute, maybe a little longer, then shut down. We started to get warm...much quicker than I remember it doing the only other time I've succumbed (nearly joking!).

We parked, shopped, filled up and left the heater on with gay abandon (the ICE only ran for about a minute again) as we returned home where we arrived after 20 miles with 4 miles EV range left.

Well, as they say here, 'I'll go to the foot of our stairs!'

....and bang my head, repeatedly, on the wall :?

JimB

 

[maby]

Frosted windscreen this morning.
Water dripping off sun roof! 7 minutes with heater and a/c on to clear the screen before I could drive off. With two windows open.
I am losing patience with this heap of junk!

It's a hybrid, not an EV - it's designed to burn petrol - let it when it wants to and it will be a very comfortable and dry car.

 

[Carnut]

Maby,
Please read my last comment again. The ICE was running, the water was dripping off the sun roof and running down the screen. There were no damp articles in the car! I do not expect to have to wait 7minutes in ANY car before I can see out well enough to drive off. It should not happen in any car (didn't even happen this badly in my series III LANDY with no head lining) and it certainly should not happen in a £38k car with an app that doesn't work either.
Even my dealer cannot get the app to lock on to the car & I am not prepared to go outside on a frosty morning in my knickers to turn the heating on.
The PHEV's USP is it's economy. As Claymore, who has the same problem, says it is pointless having to waste fuel, whether it be leccy or petrol on a so called economy driven car.
It is a manufacturing fault which Mitsu should put right. I don't care WHY it happens, it shouldn't and customers should not be expected to fart about correcting Mitsu's cock ups.
I have to do regular journeys where I can't re charge so my average mpg is 60..It's no good people who do short journies on 100% leccy telling me they get 3or 400mpg.
PHEV is obviously not suited to my type of usage & the sooner I can get back to a car which I can get into,turn a key & drive off, the better WITHOUT having to wait 7 minutes to clear the dripping windscreen.

 

[maby]

Maby,
Please read my last comment again. The ICE was running, the water was dripping off the sun roof and running down the screen. There were no damp articles in the car! I do not expect to have to wait 7minutes in ANY car before I can see out well enough to drive off. It should not happen in any car (didn't even happen this badly in my series III LANDY with no head lining) and it certainly should not happen in a £38k car with an app that doesn't work either.
Even my dealer cannot get the app to lock on to the car & I am not prepared to go outside on a frosty morning in my knickers to turn the heating on.
The PHEV's USP is it's economy. As Claymore, who has the same problem, says it is pointless having to waste fuel, whether it be leccy or petrol on a so called economy driven car.
It is a manufacturing fault which Mitsu should put right. I don't care WHY it happens, it shouldn't and customers should not be expected to fart about correcting Mitsu's cock ups.
I have to do regular journeys where I can't re charge so my average mpg is 60..It's no good people who do short journies on 100% leccy telling me they get 3or 400mpg.
PHEV is obviously not suited to my type of usage & the sooner I can get back to a car which I can get into,turn a key & drive off, the better WITHOUT having to wait 7 minutes to clear the dripping windscreen.

I can't comment on the other issues and I certainly have my own concerns about the build quality of the car, but it is quite capable of being very dry and comfortable if you simply turn the AC on, set the temperature to 21 and leave it like that. You may well think that the car has been missold to you, I don't know what the dealer told you - but in the winter months it is either an electrically assisted petrol car, or it is cold and damp. Sorry...

60mpg is pretty good if you are using it as a general purpose SUV - my average since purchase about 16 months ago is 45mpg.

 

[Claymore]

..............The ICE was running, the water was dripping off the sun roof and running down the screen. ........

I know I've been annoyed by the condensation but nothing like that.

Have you checked that the sunroof isn't cracked open?

JimB

 

[anko]

Carnut,

After a proper preheat, my car is perfectly drivable. Hot and dry. Better than any other car I have ever owned that could not be preheated. Even without starting the engine first. Without preheating, it is no less drivable than any other car I have owned. Sorry, I have no idea what you are bitching about.

 

[anko]

I'm not convinced that the pre heat overrides the temperature set on the heater.

I am pretty convinced the preheat overrides the temperature setting, as I always set the A/C unit to 15 deg C at the end of a trip and I always have a warm (if not hot) car. I've seen interior temperatures high in the 30 deg C.