Hi,
Not a question so much as some feedback. I lurked this forum for several months prior to ordering a PHEV and firstly wanted to say thanks to everyone that has previously contributed and helped us make the decision to get a PHEV.
All of my questions about spec, comfort, niggles etc were answered somewhere with in these pages and the only doubt I had was the PHEVs ability to tow our caravan. Feedback from people that had actually towed with one seemed scarce and there seemed to be so much conjecture, opinion and second hand gossip from people that had never towed anything, let alone with a PHEV.
Quite often on forums I see questions asked and answered however rarely do people come back to add anything therefore, for what it's worth, I decided to register and add a little feedback on the early days.
Firstly, to add a little context.
We have only had the car for three months and have been for four trips so far so it's fair to say this isn't a long term test, the total miles towing is around 1000. For comparison, the car I towed the above caravan with before the Mitsubishi was a pretty standard 2015 2WD Ford Kuga, 2,0 diesel manual gearbox.
The car: new, 2017 PHEV 4H with factory fitted detachable towbar and electrics.
The van: Bailey, single axle, 1240kg factory weight, 1490 MIRO. Bailey Alutech chassis and ATC traction control system. Loadout is pretty standard for a family (ie the kitchen sink etc.) plus full size awning and motor mover so safe safe to assume the weight is approaching the max permissible. I weighed this van on a weighbridge last winter and the loaded van came in at 1460kg and it's safe to assume that it's pretty much the same nowadays.
Hooking up for the first time. Usual faff fitting the detachable towbar but that's just me I guess. Electrics socket (13 pin) swings down from under the bumper just fine. A good thing is that when detached it is impossible to see any evidence of a towbar, socket or cabling, a very neat installation. Plugging in immediately activates the ATC system, green light on, all good so far and a check of the light function passes all as you;d expect for a factory fitted option.
Journey one was a a round trip of 136 towing miles South through the Peak District to Ashbourne. The route went through Stockport, Buxton and on to Ashbourne on a mix of Motorway and A roads (split 30/70). Anyone that has driven the area will testify that the roads are decent with a long series of ascents and declines consistent with a drive South through the bottom end of the Peak District.
Journey two was a round trip of 270 miles or so into North Wales near Bedgellert. This route is around 80% motorway and the (usually) fast A55. Good roads, very little incline apart from the very long drag up one section of the A55 which anyone familiar with the drive will know well.
Journey three was up to the northern part Lake District for a total of 318 mile consisting of a really long Motorway section which took in the M62 Shap section and the M6 up to Penrith. Decent fast roads, until the narrow lanes of the lakes of course....
Journey four took us to Whitby via York, a 220 mile mixture of Motorway, fast A roads and the hills and moors of the National Park.
I wont bore you with the details of each section of the trip, if anyone has any specific questions about parts of the route please feel free to PM me however, for now, I'll just try and summarize things by answering the questions I had before I bought the PHEV.
Can it tow well?
In terms of stability, it's a rock and noticeably superior to the Kuga. The Kuga was actually a good tow car however due to the design of our caravan (it's a big square sided lump) it did suffer (however loaded) with buffeting from passing vehicles on motorways whereas the Mitsubishi doesn't flinch. The suspension and ride is much firmer when not towing and this is reflected when towing. It retains a horizontal stance at all times with absolutely no see-sawing when hitting dips or cresting hills. The automatic gearbox is effortless as you'd expect and the addition of 4WD over the Kuga makes such a difference. Any 2WD car I've towed with in the past has always felt marginal in terms of front wheel grip on a decent hill start start particularly in the wet. The 4WD and auto box never miss a beat is very confidence inspiring.
The nose weight reduction compared to the Kuga (-30kg) took a little figuring out when loading however presents no issue.
What about when the battery runs out?
The short answer is it didn't. I only used 'EV' at the start on end of the trips, the rest of the time I ran it mostly in 'Save' and occasionally in 'Charge'. The lowest battery range across the trips I saw was seven miles. One caveat is though that I suspect on a longer journey with even more ascent this may reduce this to zero, I can only say what I've seen so far though.
Acceleration & Deceleration.
Much more assured and quicker than the Kuga from standstill however it doesn't have quite the same pull from 40-60. Braking and stopping distances are excellent and I even found I was using the regenerative paddles in the hills, something I never do normally.
Noise.
This is a tricky one. The PHEV is undeniably noisy when the engine is trying to charge the battery whilst the car is under load. Towing a caravan the car is pretty much always under load therefore if, like me you run 'Save', the whine from the petrol engine is certainly noticeable from within the cabin. Run it in charge and it's noisier still.
The good news however is that with a little management the noise can be reduced. Towing on the level seems to not tax the PHEV unduly and I found that using 'Save' and occasionally 'Charge' whilst on A roads, slow level sections or Motorways keeps the engine noise down and preserves battery life. Use 'Save' or 'Charge' when ascending any kind of incline or accelerating though and it is, without doubt, painful to listen to IMHO. To be fair though the Kuga was hardly quiet when pulling uphill in second gear either and frequently had it's +4000 rpm moments too.
On reflection though the noise is something I've got used to. I'm used to the noise level of a car matching it's speed or acceleration profile, in the PHEV it doesn't and it does seem odd at first.
Hill Starts.
I can't quantify this I'm afraid. All I can say is that there have been a few, some severe and it's coped perfectly well and felt so much better than any other car I've had in terms of traction. I have no idea how it would cope without battery though.
Fuel economy.
No fancy figures, just *** packet maths that give approx 26mpg across the four outbound journeys. This compares to approx 31 in the Kuga, same load, by way of comparison. This is somewhat offset by the fact that whilst away I charged the car overnight by plugging it into the external socket of the caravan which made each weekend we were are effectively free.
As to my conscience asking me whether I should be hooking it up to the site electrics? I'm over it. When I see huge motorhomes running aircon units day and night and people using fan heaters to heat awnings and tents all evening / night I'm not troubled by the fact that we charge the PHEV and keep the heating off overnight. Until I'm challenged that's my position anyway.
Things to watch out for?
Nothing new really, most has been said before in various places.
Extended mirrors fit just fine however one word of warning. When you lock the car make sure your extending mirrors are either removed or don't hit the car when they fold in. The dealer mentioned this; in our case, they miss anyway however the dealer did say he had seen problems with 'broken bits' in the past.
The fuel tank is noticeably smaller than any other car I've owned. Even fully fueled/charged the total range rarely tops 300 miles which compares to 380 in the Kuga and 420 in the Audi I've had in the past.
Any regrets / would you change the car?
No. For the weekly commutes we do an overnight charge covers all our mileage which balances out the overall running costs. The car is big, stable and well specified for the money and in our current circumstances I'd order another one without hesitation.
Anyway, before this turns into a poorly written book, thanks again for sharing your knowledge in the past and take care.
Cheers
Sam
Not a question so much as some feedback. I lurked this forum for several months prior to ordering a PHEV and firstly wanted to say thanks to everyone that has previously contributed and helped us make the decision to get a PHEV.
All of my questions about spec, comfort, niggles etc were answered somewhere with in these pages and the only doubt I had was the PHEVs ability to tow our caravan. Feedback from people that had actually towed with one seemed scarce and there seemed to be so much conjecture, opinion and second hand gossip from people that had never towed anything, let alone with a PHEV.
Quite often on forums I see questions asked and answered however rarely do people come back to add anything therefore, for what it's worth, I decided to register and add a little feedback on the early days.
Firstly, to add a little context.
We have only had the car for three months and have been for four trips so far so it's fair to say this isn't a long term test, the total miles towing is around 1000. For comparison, the car I towed the above caravan with before the Mitsubishi was a pretty standard 2015 2WD Ford Kuga, 2,0 diesel manual gearbox.
The car: new, 2017 PHEV 4H with factory fitted detachable towbar and electrics.
The van: Bailey, single axle, 1240kg factory weight, 1490 MIRO. Bailey Alutech chassis and ATC traction control system. Loadout is pretty standard for a family (ie the kitchen sink etc.) plus full size awning and motor mover so safe safe to assume the weight is approaching the max permissible. I weighed this van on a weighbridge last winter and the loaded van came in at 1460kg and it's safe to assume that it's pretty much the same nowadays.
Hooking up for the first time. Usual faff fitting the detachable towbar but that's just me I guess. Electrics socket (13 pin) swings down from under the bumper just fine. A good thing is that when detached it is impossible to see any evidence of a towbar, socket or cabling, a very neat installation. Plugging in immediately activates the ATC system, green light on, all good so far and a check of the light function passes all as you;d expect for a factory fitted option.
Journey one was a a round trip of 136 towing miles South through the Peak District to Ashbourne. The route went through Stockport, Buxton and on to Ashbourne on a mix of Motorway and A roads (split 30/70). Anyone that has driven the area will testify that the roads are decent with a long series of ascents and declines consistent with a drive South through the bottom end of the Peak District.
Journey two was a round trip of 270 miles or so into North Wales near Bedgellert. This route is around 80% motorway and the (usually) fast A55. Good roads, very little incline apart from the very long drag up one section of the A55 which anyone familiar with the drive will know well.
Journey three was up to the northern part Lake District for a total of 318 mile consisting of a really long Motorway section which took in the M62 Shap section and the M6 up to Penrith. Decent fast roads, until the narrow lanes of the lakes of course....
Journey four took us to Whitby via York, a 220 mile mixture of Motorway, fast A roads and the hills and moors of the National Park.
I wont bore you with the details of each section of the trip, if anyone has any specific questions about parts of the route please feel free to PM me however, for now, I'll just try and summarize things by answering the questions I had before I bought the PHEV.
Can it tow well?
In terms of stability, it's a rock and noticeably superior to the Kuga. The Kuga was actually a good tow car however due to the design of our caravan (it's a big square sided lump) it did suffer (however loaded) with buffeting from passing vehicles on motorways whereas the Mitsubishi doesn't flinch. The suspension and ride is much firmer when not towing and this is reflected when towing. It retains a horizontal stance at all times with absolutely no see-sawing when hitting dips or cresting hills. The automatic gearbox is effortless as you'd expect and the addition of 4WD over the Kuga makes such a difference. Any 2WD car I've towed with in the past has always felt marginal in terms of front wheel grip on a decent hill start start particularly in the wet. The 4WD and auto box never miss a beat is very confidence inspiring.
The nose weight reduction compared to the Kuga (-30kg) took a little figuring out when loading however presents no issue.
What about when the battery runs out?
The short answer is it didn't. I only used 'EV' at the start on end of the trips, the rest of the time I ran it mostly in 'Save' and occasionally in 'Charge'. The lowest battery range across the trips I saw was seven miles. One caveat is though that I suspect on a longer journey with even more ascent this may reduce this to zero, I can only say what I've seen so far though.
Acceleration & Deceleration.
Much more assured and quicker than the Kuga from standstill however it doesn't have quite the same pull from 40-60. Braking and stopping distances are excellent and I even found I was using the regenerative paddles in the hills, something I never do normally.
Noise.
This is a tricky one. The PHEV is undeniably noisy when the engine is trying to charge the battery whilst the car is under load. Towing a caravan the car is pretty much always under load therefore if, like me you run 'Save', the whine from the petrol engine is certainly noticeable from within the cabin. Run it in charge and it's noisier still.
The good news however is that with a little management the noise can be reduced. Towing on the level seems to not tax the PHEV unduly and I found that using 'Save' and occasionally 'Charge' whilst on A roads, slow level sections or Motorways keeps the engine noise down and preserves battery life. Use 'Save' or 'Charge' when ascending any kind of incline or accelerating though and it is, without doubt, painful to listen to IMHO. To be fair though the Kuga was hardly quiet when pulling uphill in second gear either and frequently had it's +4000 rpm moments too.
On reflection though the noise is something I've got used to. I'm used to the noise level of a car matching it's speed or acceleration profile, in the PHEV it doesn't and it does seem odd at first.
Hill Starts.
I can't quantify this I'm afraid. All I can say is that there have been a few, some severe and it's coped perfectly well and felt so much better than any other car I've had in terms of traction. I have no idea how it would cope without battery though.
Fuel economy.
No fancy figures, just *** packet maths that give approx 26mpg across the four outbound journeys. This compares to approx 31 in the Kuga, same load, by way of comparison. This is somewhat offset by the fact that whilst away I charged the car overnight by plugging it into the external socket of the caravan which made each weekend we were are effectively free.
As to my conscience asking me whether I should be hooking it up to the site electrics? I'm over it. When I see huge motorhomes running aircon units day and night and people using fan heaters to heat awnings and tents all evening / night I'm not troubled by the fact that we charge the PHEV and keep the heating off overnight. Until I'm challenged that's my position anyway.
Things to watch out for?
Nothing new really, most has been said before in various places.
Extended mirrors fit just fine however one word of warning. When you lock the car make sure your extending mirrors are either removed or don't hit the car when they fold in. The dealer mentioned this; in our case, they miss anyway however the dealer did say he had seen problems with 'broken bits' in the past.
The fuel tank is noticeably smaller than any other car I've owned. Even fully fueled/charged the total range rarely tops 300 miles which compares to 380 in the Kuga and 420 in the Audi I've had in the past.
Any regrets / would you change the car?
No. For the weekly commutes we do an overnight charge covers all our mileage which balances out the overall running costs. The car is big, stable and well specified for the money and in our current circumstances I'd order another one without hesitation.
Anyway, before this turns into a poorly written book, thanks again for sharing your knowledge in the past and take care.
Cheers
Sam
), is stable on the overtake and handles any buffeting well. Same story on hills, I've yet to feel any lack of confidence in the car. Since my original post we have stayed on a farm on Wales which has a long approach track with a climb of around 1:10 according to the owner that you have to start climbing up from stationary due to a sharp left turn onto it. We've stayed there before a few times when I had the Kuga and the PHEV handled the track better. To put it into context, the Kuga needed first gear from the off, never getting into second. The PHEV was fine, if noisy.
