Steamed Up (The car AND ME!) NO LONGER!!

[ChrisMiller]

Having just read the technical highlights document (linked elsewhere on this site), it appears that charging the battery from the engine is similar to using the fast chargers found (in the UK) at motorway services, in that it won't recharge beyond 86%. I can think of reasons to justify this behaviour to do with the amount of heat generated by high-power charging as the battery gets close to full - but since they're based on hazy recollections of A-level physics from 40 years ago, they may well be completely wrong (as may be my technical understanding).

 

[anko]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

Dealers .....

Save should normally maintain the set level. But there may be times that "maintaining SOC" means asking more from the engine than it can provide. For example, during climbing, towing or heavy accelerations, the engine may be running and still need support from the E-motors. At such moments, SOC will go down instead of up. SOC will drop below the set value. When driving conditions normalise, Save will continue to maintain SOC, but at this lower level.

I think SOC could go up as well. When you hit Save at the top of a hill and then descent the hill with a lot of regen, Save could end up maintaining a higher level of SOC than you started off with.

From what I read now, I believe you mean "75% of displayable charge" rather than "75% of displayed charge". As in "75% of full" instead of "75% of what you had when you hit Save". And that perfectly makes sense. Why would you burn fuel in order to charge the batteries to a level where the car is not longer a hybrid vehicle and regen braking no longer works? That would be plain stupid.

 

[gwatpe]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

Dealers .....

Save should normally maintain the set level. But there may be times that "maintaining SOC" means asking more from the engine than it can provide. For example, during climbing, towing or heavy accelerations, the engine may be running and still need support from the E-motors. At such moments, SOC will go down instead of up. SOC will drop below the set value. When driving conditions normalise, Save will continue to maintain SOC, but at this lower level.

I think SOC could go up as well. When you hit Save at the top of a hill and then descent the hill with a lot of regen, Save could end up maintaining a higher level of SOC than you started off with.

From what I read now, I believe you mean "75% of displayable charge" rather than "75% of displayed charge". As in "75% of full" instead of "75% of what you had when you hit Save". And that perfectly makes sense. Why would you burn fuel in order to charge the batteries to a level where the car is not longer a hybrid vehicle and regen braking no longer works? That would be plain stupid.

This highlights differences in programming, depending on destination. AUS shipped PHEV, can be recharged to full on the gauge from the ICE, as well as SAVE will maintain a full battery if pressed when the battery is full. We don't have 2 sockets for recharging, so the engineers have realized that we may need to preserve the battery level at a higher setting, even if this may be deemed to be marginally less efficient. Some of the logic relies on access to corded recharge. This is not always available in AUS, and it appears that an AUS shipped PHEV allows some more options with the battery usage.

 

[anko]

I know you cannot fast charge. As I know I have used a fast charger only once or twice, much like the majority of owners in the Netherlands. But it doesn't explain why you would want to have the ability to drive around with 100% SOC, killing regen and what more, instead of 80%. Or even 50%. Or even less.

 

[maby]

.....

This highlights differences in programming, depending on destination. AUS shipped PHEV, can be recharged to full on the gauge from the ICE, as well as SAVE will maintain a full battery if pressed when the battery is full. We don't have 2 sockets for recharging, so the engineers have realized that we may need to preserve the battery level at a higher setting, even if this may be deemed to be marginally less efficient. Some of the logic relies on access to corded recharge. This is not always available in AUS, and it appears that an AUS shipped PHEV allows some more options with the battery usage.

My UK supplied PHEV will attempt to get up to 100% on Charge - but it takes a long time to fill in the last bar. It will also try hard to stay at 100% on Save.

 

[Claymore]

My UK supplied PHEV will attempt to get up to 100% on Charge - but it takes a long time to fill in the last bar. It will also try hard to stay at 100% on Save.

The later part of the charge process is always very slow as the current being applied drops significantly towards the end and a lot of time is taken balancing the cells.

This happens, and is very important, even in R/C model aircraft packs, even more important and complex with a pack the size of the PHEV's.

JimB

 

[Carnut]

All right you guys.
I GIVE UP!
Went to Poole Mitsubishi, where they have just taken on an ex EE man (as in mobile 'phone) he basically said that my Android mobile is too ancient to connect with car. and after trying for AN HOUR he and SM managed to get Samsung tablet connected.
Also SM gave me a teach in and being a 70 y.o. 'numpty' I have apparently been using the paddles all wrong.
So now I have been 'tutored' and supposedly know what I am doing. I am going to give it another chance!! (how magnanimous of me :lol: ) As I do like the drive.etc. So now I don't have to go out in my knickers on a frozen morning to get rid of the dripping windscreen, I will put up with it.
So I am sure you will all be delighted to hear that I shall now Stop whingeing!.
Congrats to Grant of Poole Mitsubishi!

 

[Claymore]

...........I have apparently been using the paddles all wrong...............................
...................................................... So now I don't have to go out in my knickers on a frozen morning to get rid of the dripping windscreen, I will put up with it.

Sorry, I just can't help myself, I've got to ask;

What were you doing with the paddles that you shouldn't have? If using it as a canoe I now understand the severity of the water problem

BTW, if you are charging using timers remember to cancel the timer using the app before you start the preheat otherwise it'll use power from the drive battery to heat rather than pulling it from the mains (or the grid as some call it).

Congratulations on your surrender BTW. Hope you're not being held in Trex's trench!

JimB

 

[Carnut]

I was driving off using left paddle on 5 and only easing off if it slowed me down too much. Apparently you have to drive nearly ALL the time on ZERO regen, using the 2 ton weight of the car to coast , which it does with consummate ease over very long distances. then crank on enough regen to slow you down at junctions or preceding traffic, then footbrake to stop you if required,
back to ZERO regen as you pull away. etc.
I was using the steep hills to put MORE juice (5) back in the battery and often slowing down too much and if it was hill>dip then up> another hill, I was obviously using much more EV to get up the second hill than I put in going down the first. Coast down, using momentum to get you up as much of the up gradient as possible.
Just off to Lymington from Poole 22 miles. we'll see how it goes!!

 

[maby]

I was driving off using left paddle on 5 and only easing off if it slowed me down too much. Apparently you have to drive nearly ALL the time on ZERO regen, using the 2 ton weight of the car to coast , which it does with consummate ease over very long distances. then crank on enough regen to slow you down at junctions or preceding traffic, then footbrake to stop you if required,
back to ZERO regen as you pull away. etc.
I was using the steep hills to put MORE juice (5) back in the battery and often slowing down too much and if it was hill>dip then up> another hill, I was obviously using much more EV to get up the second hill than I put in going down the first. Coast down, using momentum to get you up as much of the up gradient as possible.
Just off to Lymington from Poole 22 miles. we'll see how it goes!!

There's some sense in that. I do think that excessive use of the high B numbers can harm running economy.

 

[Claymore]

I was driving off using left paddle on 5 and only easing off if it slowed me down too much. Apparently you have to drive nearly ALL the time on ZERO regen, using the 2 ton weight of the car to coast , which it does with consummate ease over very long distances. then crank on enough regen to slow you down at junctions or preceding traffic, then footbrake to stop you if required,
back to ZERO regen as you pull away. etc.
I was using the steep hills to put MORE juice (5) back in the battery and often slowing down too much and if it was hill>dip then up> another hill, I was obviously using much more EV to get up the second hill than I put in going down the first. Coast down, using momentum to get you up as much of the up gradient as possible.
Just off to Lymington from Poole 22 miles. we'll see how it goes!!

I'm glad I asked now - 'cos I seem to remember a post here that stuck in my mind that (I'm paraphrasing) the car couldn't use power from the drive battery and put energy back in (via regen) simultaneously yet I have always experienced the sensation that when moving along (it's been at lowish speeds) and after realising I was in 'Drive' then zeroing regen that the brakes had just been released.

Despite the fact that I was half convinced that I was imagining it I now go usually go straight back to zero regen.

Thanks for the answer.

JimB

 

[greendwarf]

I was driving off using left paddle on 5 and only easing off if it slowed me down too much. Apparently you have to drive nearly ALL the time on ZERO regen, using the 2 ton weight of the car to coast , which it does with consummate ease over very long distances. then crank on enough regen to slow you down at junctions or preceding traffic, then footbrake to stop you if required,
back to ZERO regen as you pull away. etc.
I was using the steep hills to put MORE juice (5) back in the battery and often slowing down too much and if it was hill>dip then up> another hill, I was obviously using much more EV to get up the second hill than I put in going down the first. Coast down, using momentum to get you up as much of the up gradient as possible.
Just off to Lymington from Poole 22 miles. we'll see how it goes!!

Yep, that's just how I use it - works a treat

 

[anko]

I was driving off using left paddle on 5 and only easing off if it slowed me down too much. Apparently you have to drive nearly ALL the time on ZERO regen, using the 2 ton weight of the car to coast , which it does with consummate ease over very long distances. then crank on enough regen to slow you down at junctions or preceding traffic, then footbrake to stop you if required,
back to ZERO regen as you pull away. etc.
I was using the steep hills to put MORE juice (5) back in the battery and often slowing down too much and if it was hill>dip then up> another hill, I was obviously using much more EV to get up the second hill than I put in going down the first. Coast down, using momentum to get you up as much of the up gradient as possible.
Just off to Lymington from Poole 22 miles. we'll see how it goes!!

I'm glad I asked now - 'cos I seem to remember a post here that stuck in my mind that (I'm paraphrasing) the car couldn't use power from the drive battery and put energy back in (via regen) simultaneously yet I have always experienced the sensation that when moving along (it's been at lowish speeds) and after realising I was in 'Drive' then zeroing regen that the brakes had just been released.

Despite the fact that I was half convinced that I was imagining it I now go usually go straight back to zero regen.

Thanks for the answer.

JimB

when you change B levels, the gas pedal is remapped. To get the same "go" in B0, you do not have to press the pedal as hard as you would need to in B5. This makes the car feel lighter, more agile. But this is just an artificial feeling in your right foot.

 

[Claymore]

I realise you must sometimes get very weary responding to posts on here Anko but that just doesn't make any sense to me, in the sense that why would they bother doing that, and what is the point?

JimB

 

[anko]

I honestly don't know how to interpret your response. Must be a language thingy . Is it that you do not understand what I try to say? Or is it that you do not agree with what I say?

Edit - you have edited your post in the mean time. So have I now :lol:

Why they have done it? I have no idea. I was were you are now for a long time. Couldn't believe it. But the pedal is remapped. On the Dutch forum, I was one of the last to admit it.

But the whole idea of charging and discharging the battery at the same time is physically impossible. Also, an E-motor cannot drive and regen at the same time. So, it had to be that one of the E-motors was regenning, feeding power into the other E-motor that was driving. Theoretically possible, as a result of bad programming, but if this was happening, how would you ever know? As all you can feel / experience inside the car is the combined effort of both E-motors.

 

[Claymore]

Yes, thanks again for your reply.

I think I'll try to just enjoy driving it instead of thinking so much about what's going on.

JimB

 

[Kim]

Add toothpaste to the things that work...

Here's the link to a brand new Chris Fix "steamed window" video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-IwmwzaHD0

 

[Carnut]

Tried the toothpaste trick this morning and even with a soggy dog in the back IT WORKED!

 

[Claymore]

Tried the toothpaste trick this morning and even with a soggy dog in the back IT WORKED!

Bet you used your wife's toothbrush!



JimB

 

[Carnut]

I would not use anything of my EX wife's. I doubt if she uses a toothbrush any more, she probably takes them out and puts them in a glass by now, after all she is 5 1/2 years older than I am, which could qualify her as Methuselah's Mother! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: