Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[ArthurUK]

Excellent pictures. I agree the pipes and the location of the heater under the seat smack of a last minute addition.
The pipes are also vulnerable to damage, I put a skid plate over mine and some pipe insulation on them.

When the press report EV's as a simpler more reliable design, they omit to mention the multiple cooling/heating systems and many expensive ECU's.
My first Outlander was T Boned by an idiot coming out of side road without looking, even though the structural damage was minor, I had the insurer write it off, because of the risk of unknown battery damage. They said they couldnt risk it catching fire later, as they had had previous fires.

 

[drwho]

-11'C and still in Turtle Mode, not able to set to EV Mode because Battery is too cold.... still.View attachment 1661

Even though Toronto weather is normally milder than Winnipeg weather and I most likely won't have any severe cold weather issues here, I'm still ticked off that this crap does happen to what appears to be a well-designed vehicle.

The temperature here could easily get to minus 20 or so and I would be hesitant to drive this car to a store or somewhere and leave it parked outside unplugged. Having to maintain the expense of a second vehicle that runs on gas because of this obvious fault is expensive and annoying.
This shortcoming should absolutely be disclosed to anyone considering purchasing a current Outlander and I can't believe that it isn't somehow illegal to sell a vehicle with a known major issue that could easily cause an unsafe situation, or death, if an unsuspecting driver was to stop and let the vehicle sit for a few hours in the wrong place.

Again, I will probably be okay and may not experience this problem personally, but if I had known about it, I would not have bought the 2024 Outlander. If someone gets a lawyer involved and there's a petition to sign to force Mitsubishi to design/provide a retrofit battery warmer, I would be happy to get behind it.
Best of luck Andre, and I sincerely hope you don't accidentally stop your car in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and meet an early demise.
Dave

 

[tyleriv]

There are no guarantees sometimes. I will not trash the car for a few days of -30 starts that are problematic if so. None in the 2 years by the way.

Yes, one should not generalize (opps, I'm generalizing again ;-) and you make very strong observations. However unlike conventional ICE vehicles, the 2023+ outlander PHEV is engineered to no-start under frigid temperature conditions (say < -25C) leaving the owner stranded. Moreover, this was a deliberate decision made by Mitsubishi as previous models of the PHEV had workarounds built into the battery system - a battery heater to maintain a traction battery start condition. This doesn't, on the face of it, appear to be difficult issue to overcome. They could have:

1) Retained the traction battery heater (even as an optional extra),
2) Installed a conventional ICE/Lead Acid battery starter,
3) Considered a limp mode start ICE only condition for the traction battery to provide a short term current burst only to start the ICE (assuming it doesn't damage the battery).

In addition, they could have redirected some of the "waste heat" of the ICE to warm the traction battery after the ICE is started to bring the battery up to an operational state quickly (perhaps they already do this - not sure). I believe that they redirect the heat pump to cool the battery in the heat of summer to control the battery's temperature.

Your observation that Toronto/Montreal do not experience these extreme temperatures is valid if you live in those areas and don't intent to travel to locations such as northern Ontario, the prairies, mountains etc. Alberta typically sees these cold temperatures a few days-weeks throughout the winter. I've experienced temperatures on the TransCanada over Lake Superior where my Lead Acid battery froze overnight (Thunder Bay) and then during the drive that day (Wawa) to Toronto, the carburetor iced up and I had to idle on the highway to prevent an engine stall until the ice melted away. I can't imagine considering the use of the PHEV under these conditions but those who live in these areas cope with battery blankets, block heaters etc. They have options with an ICE - it appears that we don't.

Again, as an aside, I find all of this quite ironic given that the dealer INSISTED on my purchase of the overpriced pre-installed "Alberta Winter Package" consisting of a block heater, floor mats and mud guards (to enhance rust ) to insure trouble free winter operation of the car ignoring the fact that the car would not start even if the ICE was nice and warm.

We really should have been informed of this situation prior to purchase. It is not reasonable to expect that a buyer would understand the environmental conditions that prevent the use of the car a-priori. Mitsubishi should (have) provide(d) an optional traction battery heater (similar to a block heater) if they didn't want to add to the cost of the vehicle. In this case, I would only have myself to blame. BTW, I still like the car - great value except for this down side.

 

[ronnieracoon]

-11'C and still in Turtle Mode, not able to set to EV Mode because Battery is too cold.... still.View attachment 1661

-11'C and still in Turtle Mode, not able to set to EV Mode because Battery is too cold.... still.View attachment 1661

I believe that most plug-in hybrids are like this. I previously had an ioniq 2019 PHEV and in cold weather like you experienced, the ice was running constantly. My l/100km was double that of summer early fall. Just the way that tech works.

 

[PHEV07]

I believe that most plug-in hybrids are like this. I previously had an ioniq 2019 PHEV and in cold weather like you experienced, the ice was running constantly. My l/100km was double that of summer early fall. Just the way that tech works.

My precious 2018 and 2022 never experienced loss of Power at temperatures as low as -12'C. It would happen yes but not untill the Temperatures reached temperatures of -30' or lower and only when the Drive Battery Charge Level was very low.

The Battery Management Heat system would automatically Heat the Battery Pack at -20'C because these 2018 to 2022 PHEV had an embedded Resistive Heater in the Battery Pack.

The 2023 and newer Models do not.

All other PHEVs in the Market do.

As far as Cab Heating is concerned, I was able to Drive my 2018 to 2022 in EV mode at temperatures as low as -18'C and still had enough heat to keep the Windshield clear. Because these Models did have a resistive/ceramic heater rated at 5.7kw I believe. Not certain on value.


With the 2023 to 2025 because there is no Resistive Cab Heater but just a Heat Pump, there is no useful Heat at temperatures lower than -12'C. So only good things these cRs do is to force the ICE to run but there is no way to get the car to go back to EV Mode even if the Drive Battery is fully Charged.

All other PHEVs on the Market do have Resistive Cab Heaters as did the 2018 to 2022 and of course, as do, all pure EV vehicles.

 

[ronnieracoon]

My precious 2018 and 2022 never experienced loss of Power at temperatures as low as -12'C. It would happen yes but not untill the Temperatures reached temperatures of -30' or lower and only when the Drive Battery Charge Level was very low.

The Battery Management Heat system would automatically Heat the Battery Pack at -20'C because these 2018 to 2022 PHEV had an embedded Resistive Heater in the Battery Pack.

The 2023 and newer Models do not.

All other PHEVs in the Market do.

As far as Cab Heating is concerned, I was able to Drive my 2018 to 2022 in EV mode at temperatures as low as -18'C and still had enough heat to keep the Windshield clear. Because these Models did have a resistive/ceramic heater rated at 5.7kw I believe. Not certain on value.


With the 2023 to 2025 because there is no Resistive Cab Heater but just a Heat Pump, there is no useful Heat at temperatures lower than -12'C. So only good things these cRs do is to force the ICE to run but there is no way to get the car to go back to EV Mode even if the Drive Battery is fully Charged.

All other PHEVs on the Market do have Resistive Cab Heaters as did the 2018 to 2022 and of course, as do, all pure EV vehicles.

Just so I 'm clear. Is your vehicle drivable in ICE mode? Beyond the battery acting wonky, or cabin heat issues in EV are you still able to get where you want but in ICE mode?

 

[PHEV07]

Just so I 'm clear. Is your vehicle drivable in ICE mode? Beyond the battery acting wonky, or cabin heat issues in EV are you still able to get where you want but in ICE mode?

Right now with Temperatures in the mid negative teens? Yes.

But remote starting is not possible, pre-warming the car remotely is not possible.

Setting up the pre-warming schedule is of no use because the Heat Pump puts out no heat at temperatures lower than -13'C.

All this was possible with my 2018 and 2022.

My biggest fear, the biggest fear for all owners of the 2023 to 2025 is that the car may fail to start when Temperatures drop to temperatures below -25'C.

Many owners of these years have reported starting problems with these cars. Now to read that at -30'C these cars may not only not start but may not even charge when plugged in, is very troublesome.

I only own one vehicle which is parked outdoors and we do reach temperatures in the low -30Cs.

This, is what this thread is about. Not whether the car runs in ICE mode or not.

If I wanted an ICE Vehicle I would have bought one.

If I wanted a Hybrid Vehicle I would have bought one.

I am leasing a 2024 Outlander PHEV now but have owned and have driven other Outlander PHEVs, namely 2018 and 2022 and they operated as was expected. They were true PHEVs.

The 2023 to 2025 are great cars and operate very well at temperatures above 0'C. But at temperatures lower than -10'C These cars should be parked and an ICE or pure EV should be used.

So to answer your question can I drive my car in ICE mode now? YES, but for how long? Should be the question.

Most importantly do I dare use this car to go anywhere when the Temperatures drop to -10'C and lower?

Should I consider replacing this car with a 2022 Outlander PHEV or look at another Brand or should I just save my money and buy a used ICE vehicle?

Or should I just bite the bullet
and just get pure EV?

These are the questions that I and a few of us on this Forum and others, are now asking ourselves.

Due to the fact that Mitsubishi has failed to even acknowledge that they really screwed up with the 2023 to 2025 Outlander PHEV, and are just offering band-aids solutions of software fixes, instead of recalling these cars to install a heater in the Battery Pack and a Resistive Cab heater as they did in the previous years ..... I may never buy another Mitsubishi again.

The 2023 to 2025 Outlander PHEVs should never have been sold to locations that see temperatures lower than -12'C

I hope that I have answered your question because I am getting closer to answering my own.

 

[ronnieracoon]

Right now with Temperatures in the mid negative teens yet.

But remote starting his not possible, pre-warming the car remotely is not possible.

Setting up the pre-warming schedule is of no use because the Heat Pump puts out no heat at temperatures lower than -13'C.

All this was possible with my 201i and 2024.

My biggest fear, the biggest fear for all owners of the 2023 to 2025 is that car may fail to start when Temperatures drop to temperatures below -25'C.

Many owners of these years have reported starting problems with ese cars. Now to read that at -30'C these cars may not only not start but may not even charge when plugged is troublesome.

I only own one vehicle which is parked at doors and we do reach temperatures in the low -30s.

This what this is about. Not whether the car runs in ICE mode or not.

If I wanted an ICE Vehicle I would have bought one.

If I wanted a Hybrid Vehicle I would have bought one.

II have owned and Driven Outlander PHEVs, namely 2018 and 2022 and operated AZ expected. They were Tru PHEVs.

The 2023 to 2025 is a great car and operates very well at temperatures above 0'C. But at temperatures lower than -10'C These cars should be parked and an ICE or pure EV should be used.

So to answer your question your question can I drive my car in ICE mode now? YES, but for how long?

Most importantly do I dare use my car to go anywhere when the Temperatures drop to -10'C and lower?

Should I consider replacing this car with a 2022 Outlander PHEV or look at another Brand or should I just save my money and buy a used ICE.

Or should I just bite the bullet
and just get pure EV?

Due to the fact that Mitsubishi has failed to even acknowledge that they really screwed up with the 2023 to 2025 Outlander PHEV, and are offering band-aids instead of recalling these cars to install a heater in the Battery Pack and a Redistive Cab heater as they did in the previous tears......I may never buy another Mitsubishi again.

The 2023 to 2025 Outlander PHEVs should never have been sold to locations that see temperatures lower than -12'C

I hope that I answered your question

Yes I do understand your concern. If you had wanted to an ICE or another option, the extreme cold weather challenges are real. I just feel that extreme weather EV mode is a challenge for many vehicles trying to keep their prices competitive. Even a 135k$ Tesla Cybertruck got bricked in Alberta recently with the cold.
I guess there are compromises going on in the EV/ PHEV business in the 55k$ space.
But I get your point!