Towing

[Mummylula]

Hi firstly I should say that I posted a couple of questions in the technical discussion part of this forum but on thinking about it one of my questions may be better posting here and I apologise for repeating it but someone else may have some pointers

At the moment I have a 2010 Jaguar XF V6 (Petrol) but will very shortly have a 2015 Outlander PHEV GX4H. In the long run changing the car should help the environment and our pockets. The Jag only does 18mpg!

We use the Jaguar to tow a small (1250kg) caravan and will now of course use the Outlander. Unfortunately I don't get the car till next week once the towbar is fitted and go away with the caravan on a 200 mile round trip at the end of the week so no chances of a try out towing before hand. It looks it would be best until I know the car better to start off in the 'normal' mode and then switch on the 'charge' mode and leave that on until near the end of the journey when I should turn off the 'charge' mode is that correct or does anyone have some other better advice? I'm not sure if I will able to charge at my destination yet!

I'm sure once I have the car and my first towing trip I will have other questions but in the meantime many thanks for any help which will be much appreciated.

Regards Mummylula

 

[jaapv]

I would advise to run it in charge mode all the way, but there are more knowlegeable members on the Forum who will undoubtedly chime in.
If you use the search function you will find quite a few relevant threads on towing on the forum.

 

[anko]

Run Charge mode all the way. Maybe except for the last few miles when you are sure you can recharge at your destination.

When you cannot recharge at your destination, you may even consider recharging the battery it from the ICE before towing your caravan back home. I think this will hardly impact economy, but it will greatly enhance comfort.

 

[Titan]

I had a 1300kg Eriba that I used to tow and tended to let the battery go down a 25% - 50% before using charge, though it largely depends on the topography of where you're towing, and the type of roads/speed. In some situations I tended to be able to get away with Save mode too, which was better.

Now I've a much lighter camper trailer and just use Save but again tend to let the battery discharge a degree first.

 

[Hypermiler]

Agree with both posts. Make sure you keep some battery power if there are hills, but let it run down a bit first just to give you some regen braking as I find that v useful, particularly when towing a horse as its gentle and smooth. On the flat, I arrive home with an empty battery and also do short flat runs on battery alone.
H

 

[Caz]

Watch out for the dreaded turtle on the hills. We've had it a few times towing our van.

I don't do anything special and let the car do what does.

 

[jaapv]

Maybe you should use the charge button to avoid the turtle...

 

[Caz]

Excuse my lack of knowledge jaapv, can you please explain. Thanks for your help, Alex.

 

[ChrisMiller]

If you're towing and approaching a significant hill, you can (should) use the Charge button well beforehand to raise the charge in the battery in order to avoid the 'turtle' mode. [Disclaimer - never towed anything in my life and too old to start now!]

 

[jaapv]

Even if you are not towing, if you are aware that there will be significant power demand ahead, it is always wise to have as much electrical power in reserve as possible.

 

[anko]

Even if you are not towing, if you are aware that there will be significant power demand ahead, it is always wise to have as much electrical power in reserve as possible.

"As possible" may be a bit much., as it would mean you had to drive around with Save or Charge mode all the time when you expect that you need full power to enter the motorway via a short onramp somewhere during your trip.

The other way around, i would like to suggest to use Charge mode at all times when towing a caravan. Even when you do not anticipate any climbing.

 

[jaapv]

"significant"...
I don't think a motorway ramp qualifies... The Col d'Iseran seems more to the point.

 

[anko]

"significant"...
I don't think a motorway ramp qualifies... The Col d'Iseran seems more to the point.

Ah, you are talking about energy demand, not power demand ...

 

[ChrisMiller]

The Col d'Iseran seems more to the point.

WikiP tells me the maximum gradient on the Col is 12%. There are plenty of hills steeper than that which I use all the time and the PHEV has no difficulty accelerating (s-l-o-w-l-y) up them in electric only mode. I'm sure I'd have no problems on petrol only, but towing a 'van would probably require some electric assistance to maintain speed.

 

[jaapv]

I can guarantee that 53 km of climbing road in various percentages and 1690 meters of height difference will get you in Turtle mode pretty effectively if you start with a depleted battery especially if you tow a caravan.
It is not the steepness of the climb as such, but the endurance. Don't forget that the ICE has only 90 kW to haul a 1900 kg car uphill plus passengers and luggage. The rest must come from the electric storage.
If you want to negotiate steep inclines in electric mode, you will need electricity from the battery. Hence the use of the Charge button in anticipation.

 

[Caz]

Thanks Everyone.

I suppose I can only do that if you know that hills are coming up.

I presume also that this will use more petrol.

Even with the turtle, I've always managed. The only time I didn't think I would make it was heading up Glenshee recently, with the caravan on the back.

 

[anko]

Don't forget that the ICE has only 90 kW to haul a 1900 kg car uphill plus passengers and luggage.

You wish. This amount is only available in parallel mode and even then, only when doping 170 km/h. In serial mode, power output is limited by the generator that consumes 70 kW from the ICE and outputs 'only' 60 kW of electricity, about the same as the battery (hence 120 kW max output in serial mode).

I can guarantee that 53 km of climbing road in various percentages and 1690 meters of height difference will get you in Turtle mode pretty effectively if you start with a depleted battery especially if you tow a caravan.

The longer the better. Because the longer the distance, the more time it takes and the more energy will be put out by the ICE.

To be honest, I would be less concerned with towing my caravan up the Col d'Iseran at associated low speeds than I would be towing my caravan up the French A75 south to north at Autobahn speeds. Or across the Ardennes for that matter. Also, the Col 'd Iseran may take one close to two hours to concur with a caravan? (Just guessing) In that time, the generator can put out 120 kWh of energy, about 13 times the amount of usable energy in a full battery. I wonder, how much difference is it going to make whether you start with a full or depleted battery?

 

[Mummylula]

Hi everyone and thanks for all the replies, advice and information. I had no problems towing starting off with in normal and then putting it in charge till near the end of my journey and then going back to normal which left little charge in the battery. I had no problems joining motorways or pulling out on junctions etc. There were no hills to talk about so yet to find out about them which will be next week when we go to Wales with the van. I will proceed as before and let you know how it goes. I must admit achieving more than 3 times the mpg of the jaguar on the holiday made me very happy. Going around at home we have yet to use ICE I think it's called, is also a very good feeling

Again thanks

 

[jaapv]

Don't forget that the ICE has only 90 kW to haul a 1900 kg car uphill plus passengers and luggage.

You wish. This amount is only available in parallel mode and even then, only when doping 170 km/h. In serial mode, power output is limited by the generator that consumes 70 kW from the ICE and outputs 'only' 60 kW of electricity, about the same as the battery (hence 120 kW max output in serial mode).

You're right, of course. I like being an optimist

I can guarantee that 53 km of climbing road in various percentages and 1690 meters of height difference will get you in Turtle mode pretty effectively if you start with a depleted battery especially if you tow a caravan.

The longer the better. Because the longer the distance, the more time it takes and the more energy will be put out by the ICE.

To be honest, I would be less concerned with towing my caravan up the Col d'Iseran at associated low speeds than I would be towing my caravan up the French A75 south to north at Autobahn speeds. Or across the Ardennes for that matter. Also, the Col 'd Iseran may take one close to two hours to concur with a caravan? (Just guessing) In that time, the generator can put out 120 kWh of energy, about 13 times the amount of usable energy in a full battery. I wonder, how much difference is it going to make whether you start with a full or depleted battery?

This only holds true as long as the power demand does not exceed the power generated. I doubt whether that is the case on such a long climb, with a heavily laden car and pulling a heavy caravan. Having said that, the only time my car ever threatened to go into turtle mode was when I drove at 160 up a long Autobahn incline with a ski box on top.

 

[anko]

This only holds true as long as the power demand does not exceed the power generated. I doubt whether that is the case on such a long climb, with a heavily laden car and pulling a heavy caravan.

I think this should be "as long as the average power demand does not exceed max power generated.".

Given a number of altitude meters to gain, the average power demand is lower on a long climb than it is on a short climb.

Having said that, the only time my car ever threatened to go into turtle mode was when I drove at 160 up a long Autobahn incline with a ski box on top.

And that makes sense as on the Autobahn, you car does not get a chance to 'catch its breath'. During a climb there are several occasions where power demand is pretty low and the SOC can go up a bit. Think about slowing down before every hairpin ....