Phev range on electric - new owner

[perryw]

Hi

Hoping you can all help. I’m a new owner of a 4 year old outlander phev, trying to get my head around the range on electric. This is my first post, so be gentle with me

So, the car I have is the 13.8kwh battery, I’m in the uk, and it’s currently around 8C outside. Car has 42000 miles from new.

From my reading, the battery can be used (if I don’t press the ev button) down to about 30%, so if it was in good condition, I would have about 9.6kwh available.

First charge (hadn’t been charged for at least 300 miles before this… not sure beyond that but showing empty) I registered 9.7kwh in. I assume like all chargers, this is probably 85-90% efficient, so that’s not bad… battery still in fairly good state. I do have an obd dongle but no android phone, so can’t use evwatchdog to check.

Subsequent charges, each night, are around 9.1kwh.

I’m getting probably 12-15 miles top out the battery. So that means at best, 1.65 miles per kw.

I also recently used it for a local run of 3.3 miles, and when I topped it up again, I got 2.23kwh in… so 1.5 miles per kWh… pretty consistent.

I do have the heater on, plus the heated seats, but not the aircon (fan on 3 bars but compressor off), and I generally have been putting it in eco mode, but driving with a light right foot anyway. Also, most of the journey is at or below 30mph.

I just wondered if that seems reasonable mileage, or whether I should be expecting more. I read lots of reviews of 20-30 mile range, but I recognise heater etc will take a whack out of that… but just wondered if that seems reasonable or does it suggest a problem?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice

Perry

 

[Heysham]

Hi
Try turning the heater off, you will see the guessometer change and add a few miles to your range, I can get about 18 miles on electric just now with the heater on, more without and my 2017 model (66000 miles) is taking about 7 - 8 KWh on a full charge.
The electric range indicator does seem to be linked to a random number generator, and has ranged from 16 to 28 in the month I have had the car!

 

[user 3575]

Hi

Hoping you can all help. I’m a new owner of a 4 year old outlander phev, trying to get my head around the range on electric. This is my first post, so be gentle with me

So, the car I have is the 13.8kwh battery, I’m in the uk, and it’s currently around 8C outside. Car has 42000 miles from new.

From my reading, the battery can be used (if I don’t press the ev button) down to about 30%, so if it was in good condition, I would have about 9.6kwh available.

First charge (hadn’t been charged for at least 300 miles before this… not sure beyond that but showing empty) I registered 9.7kwh in. I assume like all chargers, this is probably 85-90% efficient, so that’s not bad… battery still in fairly good state. I do have an obd dongle but no android phone, so can’t use evwatchdog to check.

Subsequent charges, each night, are around 9.1kwh.

I’m getting probably 12-15 miles top out the battery. So that means at best, 1.65 miles per kw.

I also recently used it for a local run of 3.3 miles, and when I topped it up again, I got 2.23kwh in… so 1.5 miles per kWh… pretty consistent.

I do have the heater on, plus the heated seats, but not the aircon (fan on 3 bars but compressor off), and I generally have been putting it in eco mode, but driving with a light right foot anyway. Also, most of the journey is at or below 30mph.

I just wondered if that seems reasonable mileage, or whether I should be expecting more. I read lots of reviews of 20-30 mile range, but I recognise heater etc will take a whack out of that… but just wondered if that seems reasonable or does it suggest a problem?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice

Perry

Our 2020 PHEV used about 9.6/9.7 kWh winter with the heating on worst 15 miles best 18 miles, we used to drive around with coats, hats and gloves, we have now changed to a Suzuki Across (rebadged Toyota RAV4 PHEV) it has a heat pump range only drops a few miles, no coats, hats or gloves so far.

 

[DaveL59]

Also have a 2019 4HS that I bought in Jan this year with around 46-48K miles. Hasn't had a lot of use tbh and then mostly on round-trips of 60-200 miles with no recharge till home. Charging off the supplied granny charger runs at 5-5.5 hours typically. Range shown varies from 18-22 miles with AC always on. Turn that off and it'll jump to 24 or even 26.

That said I'll charge and then not use it for days so that drops the range shown too since it'll top off the 12v battery daily. As to range achieved tho, hard to say as the steep hills often make the engine kick in, plus I'm not always light on the throttle ;-) I'd say I comfortably see 18 miles and perhaps more on electric.

Talking with the dealer that's due to service it in a couple weeks he did say that the range I see on the display is surprisingly good, making me wonder if someone has done a naughty reset, guess I'll find out when they run the battery health check at service. That said I think my daughter seems similar on her late 2018 2.4L 4H when she gets to charge it which unfortunately is rarely until they sort stuff at the new house.

 

[kpetrov]

Also have a 2019 4HS that I bought in Jan this year with around 46-48K miles. Hasn't had a lot of use tbh and then mostly on round-trips of 60-200 miles with no recharge till home. Charging off the supplied granny charger runs at 5-5.5 hours typically. Range shown varies from 18-22 miles with AC always on. Turn that off and it'll jump to 24 or even 26.

That said I'll charge and then not use it for days so that drops the range shown too since it'll top off the 12v battery daily. As to range achieved tho, hard to say as the steep hills often make the engine kick in, plus I'm not always light on the throttle ;-) I'd say I comfortably see 18 miles and perhaps more on electric.

Talking with the dealer that's due to service it in a couple weeks he did say that the range I see on the display is surprisingly good, making me wonder if someone has done a naughty reset, guess I'll find out when they run the battery health check at service. That said I think my daughter seems similar on her late 2018 2.4L 4H when she gets to charge it which unfortunately is rarely until they sort stuff at the new house.

If you won't drive it don't fully charge it. Leave it to aprox 80%. If you won't drive it for a long leave it at 50%.

I suggest not to do the naughty reset cause you are going to degrade that battery even further and faster.

 

[DaveL59]

Also have a 2019 4HS that I bought in Jan this year with around 46-48K miles. Hasn't had a lot of use tbh and then mostly on round-trips of 60-200 miles with no recharge till home. Charging off the supplied granny charger runs at 5-5.5 hours typically. Range shown varies from 18-22 miles with AC always on. Turn that off and it'll jump to 24 or even 26.

That said I'll charge and then not use it for days so that drops the range shown too since it'll top off the 12v battery daily. As to range achieved tho, hard to say as the steep hills often make the engine kick in, plus I'm not always light on the throttle ;-) I'd say I comfortably see 18 miles and perhaps more on electric.

Talking with the dealer that's due to service it in a couple weeks he did say that the range I see on the display is surprisingly good, making me wonder if someone has done a naughty reset, guess I'll find out when they run the battery health check at service. That said I think my daughter seems similar on her late 2018 2.4L 4H when she gets to charge it which unfortunately is rarely until they sort stuff at the new house.

If you won't drive it don't fully charge it. Leave it to aprox 80%. If you won't drive it for a long leave it at 50%.

I suggest not to do the naughty reset cause you are going to degrade that battery even further and faster.

Well that's surely part of the PITA of owning an EV or PHEV. I charge it as I can get called in at any time, would there be much point in having less EV range and so using more petrol? Sure it saves some wear on the battery getting fully cycled but given I'm not plugging in it daily does it make that much difference. No I don't top it off after a period, I'll use the car locally periodically and not charge it until its down to around 5 miles guessometer range.

As far as doing a reset I don't plan to, was just thinking out loud that maybe the PO or used car place might have to make the numbers look better. I guess I'll know after the service report or if I get a chance I'll try the watchdog and see what it says.

 

[kpetrov]

Keeping it fully charged or discharged for prolonged period is the worst for those batteries but if one need the full charge and can not anticipate when will need the vehicle there isn't much to be done.

On watchdog you can definitely see if an reset has been done in the past.

 

[DaveL59]

Keeping it fully charged or discharged for prolonged period is the worst for those batteries but if one need the full charge and can not anticipate when will need the vehicle there isn't much to be done.

On watchdog you can definitely see if an reset has been done in the past.

Agreed, partly why I only charge when the guess-range is in the lower readings. I note that over a week it will drop, likely where it's topping up the 12V battery. My thinking in some ways too was that by full charging it, the BMS will be able to top balance the drive batteries, where only part charging could end up with a lot of imbalance between cells and potentially erratic range or behaviour. No idea how valid that is tho.

I should go have a prod with the watchdog, can't recall if I noticed the birthday when I tried it when I first got the car and I've not used it since tbh. I'm not sure its worth constantly monitoring the drive battery, just leads to paranoia IMHO ;-) It is however the only way I can see any battery details since mine doesn't have the standard SDA info display.

 

[nrayanov]

I have the one with the 2.0 mIVEC, 12 kWh battery, I get about 35-40 km range during warm weather, which translates to about 22-25 miles.

Now, with cold weather here, and temperatures going down to almost 0 C, the range is like 30-35 km.

I use EV mode, B0 and Normal, without the heater, but I use the heated seats and steering wheel.

 

[kpetrov]

Keeping it fully charged or discharged for prolonged period is the worst for those batteries but if one need the full charge and can not anticipate when will need the vehicle there isn't much to be done.

On watchdog you can definitely see if an reset has been done in the past.

My thinking in some ways too was that by full charging it, the BMS will be able to top balance the drive batteries, where only part charging could end up with a lot of imbalance between cells and potentially erratic range or behaviour. No idea how valid that is tho.

Well yes, fully charging will balance the cells but doesn't need to be daily or to stay fully charged for prolonged time.

I fully charge it as well but prior driving it and when I will go on trips over the battery range.

 

[Geolog]

Hi

Hoping you can all help. I’m a new owner of a 4 year old outlander phev, trying to get my head around the range on electric. This is my first post, so be gentle with me

So, the car I have is the 13.8kwh battery, I’m in the uk, and it’s currently around 8C outside. Car has 42000 miles from new.

From my reading, the battery can be used (if I don’t press the ev button) down to about 30%, so if it was in good condition, I would have about 9.6kwh available.

First charge (hadn’t been charged for at least 300 miles before this… not sure beyond that but showing empty) I registered 9.7kwh in. I assume like all chargers, this is probably 85-90% efficient, so that’s not bad… battery still in fairly good state. I do have an obd dongle but no android phone, so can’t use evwatchdog to check.

Subsequent charges, each night, are around 9.1kwh.

I’m getting probably 12-15 miles top out the battery. So that means at best, 1.65 miles per kw.

I also recently used it for a local run of 3.3 miles, and when I topped it up again, I got 2.23kwh in… so 1.5 miles per kWh… pretty consistent.

I do have the heater on, plus the heated seats, but not the aircon (fan on 3 bars but compressor off), and I generally have been putting it in eco mode, but driving with a light right foot anyway. Also, most of the journey is at or below 30mph.

I just wondered if that seems reasonable mileage, or whether I should be expecting more. I read lots of reviews of 20-30 mile range, but I recognise heater etc will take a whack out of that… but just wondered if that seems reasonable or does it suggest a problem?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice

Perry

I have a 2017 Outlander PHEV, bought new. At first I was getting a range in the upper 20s (say 27 - 32 max). Now I'm generally getting around 20-22 on a full charge, even in the depths of winter, but for a fair comparison you have to switch the heater off because that slashes the range by nearly half. I'm happy enough with this.

 

[shadogowah]

Hello. This video (in Spanish) explains the fast "battery degradation" problem.

BMU is intended to not allow to use all the cells but leaves some of them unused to prolong life.

In short: It seems the BMU initially allows the use of a higher numer of cells (thus providing the required min range to comply with whatever rule) but gradually restricts them.

 

[Ecological]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbi...1ZfqPKyOhdGdYoLG_gsPusvLmsQGuXt3&__tn__=*bH-R


My full charge says 20miles when I left. I have now travelled 16miles...and I left it at NORMAL. As is evident, the car selects EV driving at 100% with half bar on battery. Using Bo.I do not brake much. Do not accelerate. Nothing switched on apart from blue tooth. Do not brake by tailgating car in front.. ie leave a good gap...do not brake at every corner of the road...do not overtake... drive no more than 40mph...it is achievable but invariably difficult. 1 little act of acceleration will mean the EV driving will drop from 100% to 98 or 97%. Anymore than that will see EV driving go down in percentages. It is but simple physics.. all those actions which I raised above would mean a waste of energy....keeping energy use as efficiently as possible with minimal waste.









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Mohsin Nawaz
The good thing with getting more miles is it makes one a safer driver

 

[yardbird]

2018 USA PHEV model (85k miles) with 12Kwh battery. I got about 12 miles after overnight charge (4 to 5 hours at 16 amps), it was 21 EV miles in 2018. Heater on in winter and AC on in summer.

 

[yardbird]

Updates on my EV range. I did another reset a few days ago, it had since boosted from 8 EV miles(with AC on around 105 F, the last week) to 16 miles for a few days already (80 to 85 F this week), hope that it stays that way. keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Wolfe Rose]

If you won't drive it don't fully charge it. Leave it to aprox 80%. If you won't drive it for a long leave it at 50%.

I suggest not to do the naughty reset cause you are going to degrade that battery even further and faster.

I have a 2019 Outlander, and note that I get about 6KWh going in (measured on multiple chargers, all agree).
I get about 12-14mi on EV mode.
The dash reports a consistent 2.0-2.3mi / KWh, so all the math agrees, and confirms I'm a gentle driver.
Except... a 13KWh batter should be using more than 40% of it's total capacity, even allowing for "safe margins" of not fully charging or draining the battery.
It was under warrantee when I opened a case with Mitsubishi, but they insist 6KWh recharge and 12mi range are "within spec" despite not being anything near their guaranteed percentage.
Long way of asking, what's this "naughty reset" you mention? It seems clear Mitsubishi isn't going to help me.

 

[yardbird]

No matter what I did, I got about 11 EV miles out of that 12 kwhr battery of my 2018 PHEV, half of the original EV miles when new.

 

[Haenzel]

My 2021 (mkIII) gave me 33 miles this morning (8 degrees celcius) Mileage is 34.500
I can charge little under 10kWh

 

[kernelpanic]

I have a 2019 Outlander, and note that I get about 6KWh going in (measured on multiple chargers, all agree).
I get about 12-14mi on EV mode.
The dash reports a consistent 2.0-2.3mi / KWh, so all the math agrees, and confirms I'm a gentle driver.
Except... a 13KWh batter should be using more than 40% of it's total capacity, even allowing for "safe margins" of not fully charging or draining the battery.
It was under warrantee when I opened a case with Mitsubishi, but they insist 6KWh recharge and 12mi range are "within spec" despite not being anything near their guaranteed percentage.
Long way of asking, what's this "naughty reset" you mention? It seems clear Mitsubishi isn't going to help me.

What Mitsubishi should do if the car is (was) under warantee is perform a DBCAM and see what the SOH (State Of Health) is. I'm no longer sure what the garanteed Minimum SOH should be after 5 years.
A DBCAM it appears will marginally improve the SOH but won't perform a miracle.


What you should do is use PHEV Watchdog, even if this means buying a secondhand Android phone and ODB3 Btooth dongle. This will allow you to know what your SOH really is.

The 'Naughty Reset' will only make things worse. I can't remember how people have done it but it's basically resetting the BMS so that it thinks it's got a new battery and that It is in a new car. Typically the BMS would then allow the battery to discharge down to a dangerously low level.

Below are the arguments against - (from copilot)

• 
  Risk of Damage: Performing a BMS reset without proper knowledge and tools can potentially damage the battery or the vehicle's electrical system1.
• Temporary Effects: The reset might only provide a temporary increase in battery capacity, as the BMS will likely recalibrate itself over time, returning the battery to its previous state1.
• Warranty Voidance: Tampering with the vehicle's BMS could void the warranty, leaving you responsible for any repairs or replacements.
• Safety Concerns: Incorrectly resetting the BMS could lead to safety issues, such as improper charging or discharging of the battery, which could pose a fire hazard.
• Software Integrity: The BMS software is designed to manage the battery's health and longevity. Resetting it could interfere with these functions, potentially reducing the overall lifespan of the battery.

 

[Phev2016]

@WolfeRose. You don't say how you recharge but public chargers using Chademo especially only go to 80%. You could buy a TAPO Smart Plug and use it with your granny charger at home to see how much it actually uses, and the car will be accepting about 95% of this at most. Get it as discharged as you can and before charging, when stationary finally use the AC and heater to get the last out of the battery and switch off when engine kicks in.
Easier if you get an android phone or tablet and download PHEV Watchdog and determine SOH. Your battery warranty was 8 years and up to 100,000 miles to be more than 70% SOH.