Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[MiPHEV]

It's finally become cool enough that I need to work on a battery heater for my old gen 2019, the cool temps keep the engine locked out of parallel operation until the battery is reasonably warm, on my last trip yesterday it took about 15 miles of driving to warm the battery enough on a cool, but not cold, 40F/4.5C morning - which seemed to allow the parallel coupling to kick in once the coolest cell in the battery was above 12C/54F. A different problem than new gen users experience, but a battery heater is a battery heater at the end of the day...

Originally I was going to attach a panel to the bottom of the car as has been mentioned here, but I think I'll just make a parking heater that slides under the car instead for ease. I'm going with a $15 single air mattress and some style of those electric warming pads, whether RV tank heater, sidewalk ice melt, whatever has the size and wattage I want, ideally I'd like to get it up around 1000w+ so it won't take all day to preheat and I can put it on a timer to run for the bare minimum time before departure. Pop a simple programmable temperature controller on there, wrap the assembly in a tarp for puncture protection and call it good. The air mattress should help keep some of the heat from being lost while it's warming in frigid conditions as well.

This won't solve Mitsubishi's no start problem in the cold unless you could park near a power outlet, but it's a nice option for in the garage. Park, inflate/deflate, depart. Such a kludge for what should be taken care of at the factory.

 

[PHEV07]

The heating blanket idea sounds good, because I have a 2024 Model

This morning it was -4'C and after using the Forced EV mode, I just finished driving 15kms on EV only with a Drive Battery at 75%.

Procedure I used:

1) Press Start with no Brake pedal depressed.
2) Press EV Button
3) Press Brake Pedal and StRt zbutton
4) Select ECO Mode
5) Shift to Drive then B0

This prevents ICE to start up and I was able to use Heat without ICE starting up.

Finally I can drive in colder weather on pure EV. Now have to wait for the temp to drop to see how cold outdoor temp needs to be before the ICE kicks in.

 

[Woon Chung]

Yeah, I've always done this. It worked last year just fine, the engine kicks on way sooner since the update I had done late last winter / early spring.

This arouse me the curiosity. If you prevent ICE cold albeit by force using EV in front, is the battery enough to drive to your work without any charging (your work place is within the distance of battery only coverage)? If your driving distance is longer than battery coverage distance, eventually the ICE will be running to charge the battery. I don't believe that running under EV will heat up ICE during driving, until ambient temperature becomes hot suddenly. This means that it will do the cold cranking eventually, either from the start or after EV driving.

There is another if. If, I saying if, computer calculate that battery needs a certain temperature for best working condition, it will kick the ICE to heat up battery temperature for best condition, not for driving. Computer use every data for best and safe electric circuit functions. If, I say If, it is right, then you forced to use the battery in cold temperature. Battery is more sensitive than engine oil in temperature. This assumption is not common yet. But this reminds me the first stage of wrong charge and use of Lithium-Ion battery. Sometime later, it becomes common not charging full and not draining full. AndyInOz says the engineer already set the limit of charge and drain in its software, as we know it now, then we can get assumption of temp control in software, too. Unfortunately, it is not announced officially yet. So, nobody knows yet. I just guess. Just curiosity. In my person opinion, the modern electric vehicle has so many science hidden inside, any maneuvering by the unconfirmed processing, we are not safe at all. Also charging at 600vDC at CHAdeMO port to 292 VDC outlander battery is not guaranteed its safety. For your reference Tesla has 500VDC battery. Not all battery is same.

Good luck to you

 

[drwho]

The heating blanket idea sounds good, because I have a 2024 Model

This morning it was -4'C and after using the Forced EV mode, I just finished driving 15kms on EV only with a Drive Battery at 75%.

Procedure I used:

1) Press Start with no Brake pedal depressed.
2) Press EV Button
3) Press Brake Pedal and StRt zbutton
4) Select ECO Mode
5) Shift to Drive then B0

This prevents ICE to start up and I was able to use Heat without ICE starting up.

Finally I can drive in colder weather on pure EV. Now have to wait for the temp to drop to see how cold outdoor temp needs to be before the ICE kicks in.

I, of course, have been using the same starting procedure, but I don't shift it to B0. I just leave it on B2 which is the default start setting and the ICE still doesn't come on at all.
I figure on B2 that I'm getting a bit more Regen then on B0.

 

[PHEV07]

I, of course, have been using the same starting procedure, but I don't shift it to B0. I just leave it on B2 which is the default start setting and the ICE still doesn't come on at all.
I figure on B2 that I'm getting a bit more Regen then on B0.

Temperature has been hovering around Zero. (3'C)

Even though I used the Procedure to Force into EV Mode, I noticed the EV Power Meter increasing then the ICE started up. I drove with ICE running for a minute or so. Pulled over and restarted car to get to EV Mode again Not sure why it did this. ICE never kicked in even though I had the Heater on and set to 19'C.

Car did start ICE again, for no reason at all, even with Heater off.

Have to do more testing when Temp drops to near 0'C again.

Strange, to say the least.

 

[drwho]

Temperature has been hovering around Zero. (3'C)

Even though I used the Procedure to Force into EV Mode, I noticed the EV Power Meter increasing then the ICE started up. I drove with ICE running for a minute or so. Pulled over and restarted car to get to EV Mode again Not sure why it did this. ICE never kicked in even though I had the Heater on and set to 19'C.

Car did start ICE again, for no reason at all, even with Heater off.

Have to do more testing when Temp drops to near 0'C again.

Strange, to say the least.

Now that we're using the heater a bit or sometimes still the air conditioning, you know the weather has been really weird here lately, we're getting 70 km on a full charge. And the ice has not been coming on even with the heater or whatever on.
But when nothing else is turned on we still get 90 kilometers on a full charge.

I'm sure in the middle of winter in inclement weather, with the wipers on, the heater on, starting with steering wheel heater and seat heater at first, and maybe some Tire slippage, we will get more like 50 km on a charge. I think that's pretty good though.

 

[user 9983]

Hi, anyone tested and can verify if the software update works? I know it's a little bit colder now. I'm planning to buy a PHEV but thinking twice because of the no start issue during cold weather -30 or lower.

 

[PHEV07]

Now that we're using the heater a bit or sometimes still the air conditioning, you know the weather has been really weird here lately, we're getting 70 km on a full charge. And the ice has not been coming on even with the heater or whatever on.
But when nothing else is turned on we still get 90 kilometers on a full charge.

I'm sure in the middle of winter in inclement weather, with the wipers on, the heater on, starting with steering wheel heater and seat heater at first, and maybe some Tire slippage, we will get more like 50 km on a charge. I think that's pretty good though.

Weather in Winnipeg has been in the range of -1 to 5'C. I am now using the Heater about 25% of the time, set for 20'C Seat heat on and steering wheel heat on. 50% of driving I had a passenger and have a full tank of fuel. I can now, only get a full charge of 80kms, 2 days ago was 79kms this morning only charging to 78kms.

My actual driven range has only been 70 to 65 kms per charge for the last 3 charge cycles. ICE does kick in out of the blue even though I force car into forced EV Mode. Weird

 

[DougF]

Hi, anyone tested and can verify if the software update works? I know it's a little bit colder now. I'm planning to buy a PHEV but thinking twice because of the no start issue during cold weather -30 or lower.

I thought about it too and decided not to buy an Outlander. @Grandad bought one and decided to sell it because of the no start issue. He doubts that the software update will solve the issue. See what he wrote here and elsewhere on this forum.

 

[tyleriv]

Just recently, my car displayed the "PHEV System Fault", message; it was only -10C. The car threw codes and CEL was illuminated as well. It was outside overnight and charging prior to this drive; I had used the preheat cabin as well while still charging. During the drive in to service, the car ran fine under battery however, when the ICE started, it would "gallop" (rev up/down). I noted that as soon as the car was in the warm service bay, the message disappeared just in time for the service advisor to check things out. However CEL was still illuminated. The service people scanned for codes and said they were related to cold weather issues (-10C!). They updated the PMU presumably with the new software mentioned. So far so good (only 1 day) however I noticed the dash power meter would show high power usage under very light usage and with any request to accelerate, the power meter would max out and the ICE would start up for short periods of time (30 secs etc) in EV mode. Once the ICE shut down, the power meter acted normally. I'm not sure if ICE start was to warm the traction battery or to support interior climate control. However, I did notice that the battery temperature increased in my 30 min drive home (low speed, -7C). Feels like, gone are the days of no/low gas usage during the winter. I suspect that this will have no impact on the no-start issue but rather better protect the battery during use in low temperatures. The idea that the ICE would start/stop in cold weather like this is not at all reassuring. An ICE does NOT like cold weather starts and I'm pretty sure that if the ICE does not reach full operating temperature, water condensation in the oil etc may lead to future issues. As an aside, from January 2024 to now, I had experienced no issues except for the occasional, its real cold so the battery is in reduced power mode messages. It was much colder then, hitting -30C. None of this feels resolved.

 

[Grandad]

Hi, anyone tested and can verify if the software update works? I know it's a little bit colder now. I'm planning to buy a PHEV but thinking twice because of the no start issue during cold weather -30 or lower.

My advice is don't buy a 23/24 (25) model. The software update is not a fix for the coldstart/operation issue - it only extends the cooling time somewhat and does not add heat to the battery. Mitsubishi created the problem by deleting the battery heater and IMO has compounded the problem with the pretense that the software "enhancement" does anything substantial to address the problem. In the documentation accompanying the notice of the availability of a software update the company acknowledges that there is no "guarantee" of improved cold weather performance and provides the example of the vehicle still locking out if left in "extreme" cold for extended periods of time which it characterises as 10 hours at -30C...not much comfort where I live.

 

[Grandad]

Just recently, my car displayed the "PHEV System Fault", message; it was only -10C. The car threw codes and CEL was illuminated as well. It was outside overnight and charging prior to this drive; I had used the preheat cabin as well while still charging. During the drive in to service, the car ran fine under battery however, when the ICE started, it would "gallop" (rev up/down). I noted that as soon as the car was in the warm service bay, the message disappeared just in time for the service advisor to check things out. However CEL was still illuminated. The service people scanned for codes and said they were related to cold weather issues (-10C!). They updated the PMU presumably with the new software mentioned. So far so good (only 1 day) however I noticed the dash power meter would show high power usage under very light usage and with any request to accelerate, the power meter would max out and the ICE would start up for short periods of time (30 secs etc) in EV mode. Once the ICE shut down, the power meter acted normally. I'm not sure if ICE start was to warm the traction battery or to support interior climate control. However, I did notice that the battery temperature increased in my 30 min drive home (low speed, -7C). Feels like, gone are the days of no/low gas usage during the winter. I suspect that this will have no impact on the no-start issue but rather better protect the battery during use in low temperatures. The idea that the ICE would start/stop in cold weather like this is not at all reassuring. An ICE does NOT like cold weather starts and I'm pretty sure that if the ICE does not reach full operating temperature, water condensation in the oil etc may lead to future issues. As an aside, from January 2024 to now, I had experienced no issues except for the occasional, its real cold so the battery is in reduced power mode messages. It was much colder then, hitting -30C. None of this feels resolved.

A PHEV that the manufacturer tpouts as being ready for what Canada gas to throw at it, is "ready for adventure", etc. shouldn't have to be babied like this and start throwing reduced power etc. messages at temperatures in the -10C to -20C range. As engineered the 23/24 (25?) models are "unfit for purpose" in that they do not function properly under conditions normally expected in locations where they are sold and intended to be operated.

The cold related issues being experienced are the result of poor engineering and corner cutting by Mitsubishi and not properly be left to owners to find workarounds.

The company is clearly dodging its responsibility particularly in that with the '23 model they provided misleading documentation indicating that a battery heater was "standard" equipment when it was not. They have made no effort to make whole its customers who purchased these vehicles under false pretenses.

IMO, old start issues aside, potential buyers should be very wary of purchasing anything from a company that treats its customers as Mitsubishi has done with the PHEV models in question.

 

[ronnieracoon]

I am a recent owner of a new 2023 Outlander PHEV, purchased in October 2023. I have read much about the possibility of being stranded in Sub-zero weather conditions where the main battery shuts down and will not start the engine. I am looking for advice. I live in Iowa and we are expecting sub-zero temps starting this Saturday night ( 1-13-2024) for several days. Sunday, the high temperature is expected to be in the -8° F during the day and -17°F at night this weekend and gradually warm up throughout the week. While my car is in an attached garage, it is not heated. I don't expect it to get below zero while garaged. However, I will go to work on Monday and the car will be outside for the day which has highs predicated at -6°F.

Are there any precautions I need to take to make sure it will start after sitting in temperatures of less than -6° F during the day? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Jim Petro

Jim just saw your note from Jan with cold weather starts at -17.
Were you able to get through this Iowa cold to start your car. Any issues?

 

[jpetro]

Jim just saw your note from Jan with cold weather starts at -17.
Were you able to get through this Iowa cold to start your car. Any issues?

Ronnie,
I did not have any issues this past winter. My car is garaged during the evening. I am still concerned about the battery cut-out if on a trip and the battery reaches that cut-off point.

 

[ronnieracoon]

Ronnie,
I did not have any issues this past winter. My car is garaged during the evening. I am still concerned about the battery cut-out if on a trip and the battery reaches that cut-off point.

Ok thanks Jim. I too have garage but nice to know and be prepared when away from home.

 

[drwho]

Ronnie,
I did not have any issues this past winter. My car is garaged during the evening. I am still concerned about the battery cut-out if on a trip and the battery reaches that cut-off point.

I feel the same uncertainty regarding being on a trip and having to park outside in the winter. Our winter weather used to get down to 30 or 35 below zero, 20 or 30 years ago, but it doesn't anymore. -35 is about the same temp in F and C.

It still gets down to minus 15 C these winters, but I believe that would be okay for parking outside if it could at least be plugged into a 120 volt receptacle.
All the same, we will have a second minimal-usage vehicle for the next 5 years anyway, and we would just drive it on a trip where we couldn't park indoors. When we no longer have a second car, we will just rent a car for a few days for a sub-zero winter trip.
Hope this helps.

 

[ronnieracoon]

I feel the same uncertainty regarding being on a trip and having to park outside in the winter. Our winter weather used to get down to 30 or 35 below zero, 20 or 30 years ago, but it doesn't anymore. -35 is about the same temp in F and C.

It still gets down to minus 15 C these winters, but I believe that would be okay for parking outside if it could at least be plugged into a 120 volt receptacle.
All the same, we will have a second minimal-usage vehicle for the next 5 years anyway, and we would just drive it on a trip where we couldn't park indoors. When we no longer have a second car, we will just rent a car for a few days for a sub-zero winter trip.
Hope this helps.

It does help...but I hope it's not necessary. Time will tell

I feel the same uncertainty regarding being on a trip and having to park outside in the winter. Our winter weather used to get down to 30 or 35 below zero, 20 or 30 years ago, but it doesn't anymore. -35 is about the same temp in F and C.

It still gets down to minus 15 C these winters, but I believe that would be okay for parking outside if it could at least be plugged into a 120 volt receptacle.
All the same, we will have a second minimal-usage vehicle for the next 5 years anyway, and we would just drive it on a trip where we couldn't park indoors. When we no longer have a second car, we will just rent a car for a few days for a sub-zero winter trip.
Hope this helps.

 

[ronnieracoon]

My advice is don't buy a 23/24 (25) model. The software update is not a fix for the coldstart/operation issue - it only extends the cooling time somewhat and does not add heat to the battery. Mitsubishi created the problem by deleting the battery heater and IMO has compounded the problem with the pretense that the software "enhancement" does anything substantial to address the problem. In the documentation accompanying the notice of the availability of a software update the company acknowledges that there is no "guarantee" of improved cold weather performance and provides the example of the vehicle still locking out if left in "extreme" cold for extended periods of time which it characterises as 10 hours at -30C...not much comfort where I live.

According to the mitsubishi letter I received, it does fix the problem. At -30C with the car plugged in, there should be no issues. I'll go with that for now and see.

 

[William M]

William here

We have a 2023 and live east of Toronto and park outside as we own a convertible that we garage for the winter.
No problems so far other than reduced milage on pure electric.
Mileage has dropped from 80k to 60K with the cold weather

 

[jpetro]

According to the mitsubishi letter I received, it does fix the problem. At -30C with the car plugged in, there should be no issues. I'll go with that for now and see.

I am curious how you got a response from Mitsubishi. I have been trying and can't get anyone in USA to respond, I left email requests on their web site and tried calling their main line. This has been discouraging as I have had Mitsubishi products for over 20 years and they were all fantastic vehicles, all reliable and some living long ( more than 240K miles) lives.
I wonder what happens when the PHEV is plugged in outside in -30C ( -22F) temps? Could the trickle charge, assuming it is fully charged, be enough to raise the battery temperature?