Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[PHEV07]

This has always been the case. If your battery is more than about 2/3 full, it cannot charge fast enough to handle more than B2 levels of regen. To compensate, the "waste" the regen power by having the generator spin the ICE (without injecting fuel). They don't want this done on a cold, ublibricated engine, so they periodically idle it to warm it up and lubricate it.

No, that is not correct. I never had this issue on my 2018 or 2022 model. I could always paddle up to B3 -B5 without an issue, no matter the temperature, the ICE would never start up unless it was cold out, of course.

Things are much different with my 2024 PHEV-GT

Even with Temps above 15'C, I start driving in EV, B0, paddle up to B1, B2 with no issues but as soon as Paddle to B3, the ICE kicks in. I am forced to pull over. Stop the car and start it again, Eco, Ev, B0 and all is back to normal.

Once I change my procedure, when required to slow down, I Paddle up to B1, then B2, this time, I do not paddle up to B3, but instead press the brake pedal slightly, I can get greater Regen without the ICE kicking in. If I am driving and paddle to B2 then when I press on the brake paddle harder, the Regen needle goes to Max Regen and again the ICE does not start up.

Now I am trying to figure out how long I have to drive before I can go past B3 without the ICE starting. Seems to be 5 minutes, so far but like I said, I am still testing this.

Another Issue that MM needs to Correct, in my opinion.

 

[PHEV07]

No, that is not correct. I never had this issue on my 2018 or 2022 model. I could always paddle up to B3 -B5 without an issue, no matter the temperature, the ICE would never start up unless it was cold out, of course.

Things are much different with my 2024 PHEV-GT

Even with Temps above 15'C, I start driving in EV, B0, paddle up to B1, B2 with no issues but as soon as Paddle to B3, the ICE kicks in. I am forced to pull over. Stop the car and start it again, Eco, Ev, B0 and all is back to normal.

Once I change my procedure, when required to slow down, I Paddle up to B1, then B2, this time, I do not paddle up to B3, but instead press the brake pedal slightly, I can get greater Regen without the ICE kicking in. If I am driving and paddle to B2 then when I press on the brake paddle harder, the Regen needle goes to Max Regen and again the ICE does not start up.

Now I am trying to figure out how long I have to drive before I can go past B3 without the ICE starting. Seems to be 5 minutes, so far but like I said, I am still testing this.

Another Issue that MM needs to Correct, in my opinion.

Follow up.

Yesterday, with a Drive Battery at 1/3 full, Ambient temp at 19'C. I started the car, placed in ECO, EV backed up. Placed in Drive, Paddled up B1, B2, B2, B4, B5 and started driving. ICE never kicked in. Paddled down to B0 and started driving.

I was able to Paddle up to B3, B4 and B5 and the ICE never started.

Today is bit cooler so I will try that again and report Temp and results.

So...... so far it seems that at Temps at 15'C and lower the ICE starts up paddling up above B2. But appears to work fine at 19'C

I will try to fine out at what Temp forces the ICE to start up when Regen B3 or higher is applied.

 

[Lon12]

The engine starting with higher B settings has to do more with state of charge than temperature. The engine is used as a brake when the battery can’t accept the higher regen. We have found that you need to be down to around 60-65% capacity for the engine to not kick in when paddling up.

 

[PHEV07]

The engine starting with higher B settings has to do more with state of charge than temperature. The engine is used as a brake when the battery can’t accept the higher regen. We have found that you need to be down to around 60-65% capacity for the engine to not kick in when paddling up.

My Drive Battery was af 50% Charge when moved paddle up to B3 and the ICE started. As I had stated, the Ambient Temp at tge time was 15"C. Also, please keep in mind that applying tbefoot brake, always causes Maximum Regen but tge ICE never starts up.

Issue is only when using Regen Paddles to B3 or above.


Yesterday, with Drive Battefy at 25% Full and Ambient Temp at 16"C. iCE never started when I paddled up to B3, B4 and B5.

Forecast is predicting for temps lower than 15'C this coming week.

Will report my findings.

 

[Lon12]

If you bring up the EV power on the centre display you can see what the different B settings provide for regen below 60% charge:
B5 = 32 kW regen
B4 = 24 kW
B3 = 20 kW
B2 = 12 kW
B1= 4 kW
When brakes are applied you get full deflection to indicate 40 kW.
That being said with a full battery in "normal EV" (which should be equal to B3) I think I only see around less than 10 kW of regen.

 

[PHEV07]

If you bring up the EV power on the centre display you can see what the different B settings provide for regen below 60% charge:
B5 = 32 kW regen
B4 = 24 kW
B3 = 20 kW
B2 = 12 kW
B1= 4 kW
When brakes are applied you get full deflection to indicate 40 kW.
That being said with a full battery in "normal EV" (which should be equal to B3) I think I only see around less than 10 kW of regen.

Great info, thank you.

How do we bring up the EV power on on the centre display.

Sorry but I am still new to this 2024 PHEV.

 

[Lon12]

MENU/INFO/EV/ENERGY USAGE

 

[PHEV07]

MENU/INFO/EV/ENERGY USAGE

View attachment 1319

Thank you.

I have been trying to get to this Energy Usage to display but have not been able to find out to get there, even tried finding how to in the Manual but still no luck. Please help me by posting procedure to get it to display.

Ty in advance


Oops thank you, did not notice you post procedure before I posted this.

Thank you

 

[PHEV07]

Thank you.

I have been trying to get to this Energy Usage to display but have not been able to find out to get there, even tried finding how to in the Manual but still no luck. Please help me by posting procedure to get it to display.

Ty in advance


Oops thank you, did not notice you post procedure before I posted this.

Thank you

No wonder I was lost. The Smartphone-Link Display Audio (SDA) Manual was not with the Owner's Manual. Found it under some paperwork on my desk.

Now I have more to read.

Thanks again.

 

[PHEV07]

My Drive Battery was af 50% Charge when moved paddle up to B3 and the ICE started. As I had stated, the Ambient Temp at tge time was 15"C. Also, please keep in mind that applying tbefoot brake, always causes Maximum Regen but tge ICE never starts up.

Issue is only when using Regen Paddles to B3 or above.


Yesterday, with Drive Battefy at 25% Full and Ambient Temp at 16"C. iCE never started when I paddled up to B3, B4 and B5.

Forecast is predicting for temps lower than 15'C this coming week.

Will report my findings.

This evening the Ambient Temp dropped to 12'C.

Drive Battery showed 15Km. I started Car, placed in Eco, EV and B0 and started driving as I had to slow down for Stop sign, Paddled up to B1, B2 then as soon as I paddled up to B3, tge ICE started. At stop sign I turned car off. Started it again, placed in Eco, EV, B0 and started driving. Got to 30kph, paddled up to B1, B2 and then applied Brake Pedal. Got max Regen but ICE never started.

After stopping. Placed in B0, started driviing again. At 30kph I again paddled up to B1, B2 then when I paddled up to B3, the ICE started up again.

So, my PHEV does cause the ICE to start up when B3 is reached at temperature lower than 15'C.

After driving 5 minutes and with 10 kms left on my Drive Battery, the ICE started up once I paddled up to B3 but not when I press the Brake Pedal and obtain full Regen.

Can someone else try this once the ambient temperatures are below 15'C or 59'F?

 

[PHEV07]

The engine starting with higher B settings has to do more with state of charge than temperature. The engine is used as a brake when the battery can’t accept the higher regen. We have found that you need to be down to around 60-65% capacity for the engine to not kick in when paddling up.

I can now confirm that when the Ambient Temperature is above 16'C and with a Drive Battery with a SOC of lower than 60%, the ICE does not turn on when Regen Paddle is placed on B3, B4 or B5.

Now I need to try to figure out why the ICE is starting up with an ambient Temp above 28'C with HVAC off and on ECO, EV mode and B0.

When the ICE starts up in B0, EV, ECO Mode and I can pull over on the roadway, turning off the car and restarting, then placing in B0, ECO, EV, the ICE stays off for some time. Then out of the blue, in 5 to 10 minutes, the ICE starts up again, for no reason that I have been able to determine yet.

I do however, notice that the Drive Battery Temperature is higher than 50% of the gauge at this point.

Could this be the cause?

Does the ICE need to run for the Heat Pump to cool the Drive Battery?

It is unfortunate that the PHEV Watchdog App is no longer working on the 2003/2024 Models.

Anyone know of another App that we might be able to use for now?

 

[mellobob]

I can now confirm that when the Ambient Temperature is above 16'C and with a Drive Battery with a SOC of lower than 60%, the ICE does not turn on when Regen Paddle is placed on B3, B4 or B5.

Now I need to try to figure out why the ICE is starting up with an ambient Temp above 28'C with HVAC off and on ECO, EV mode and B0.

When the ICE starts up in B0, EV, ECO Mode and I can pull over on the roadway, turning off the car and restarting, then placing in B0, ECO, EV, the ICE stays off for some time. Then out of the blue, in 5 to 10 minutes, the ICE starts up again, for no reason that I have been able to determine yet.

I do however, notice that the Drive Battery Temperature is higher than 50% of the gauge at this point.

Could this be the case?

Does the ICE need to run for the Heat Pump to cool the Drive Battery?

It is unfortunate that the PHEV Watchdog App is no longer working on the 2003/2024 Models.

Anyone know of another App that we might be able to use for now?

I've been wondering about this on my '24. But, one thing which is a tad confusing is that there are 2 different engine states on the displayed icon: one shows the engine with the power going to the front and/or battery; the other JUST shows an engine. I'm am thinking (but could well be wrong) that when it is just showing the engine it is not using gasoline, but just acting as a brake????

 

[Lon12]

I can now confirm that when the Ambient Temperature is above 16'C and with a Drive Battery with a SOC of lower than 60%, the ICE does not turn on when Regen Paddle is placed on B3, B4 or B5.

Now I need to try to figure out why the ICE is starting up with an ambient Temp above 28'C with HVAC off and on ECO, EV mode and B0.

When the ICE starts up in B0, EV, ECO Mode and I can pull over on the roadway, turning off the car and restarting, then placing in B0, ECO, EV, the ICE stays off for some time. Then out of the blue, in 5 to 10 minutes, the ICE starts up again, for no reason that I have been able to determine yet.

I do however, notice that the Drive Battery Temperature is higher than 50% of the gauge at this point.

Could this be the case?

Does the ICE need to run for the Heat Pump to cool the Drive Battery?

It is unfortunate that the PHEV Watchdog App is no longer working on the 2003/2024 Models.

Anyone know of another App that we might be able to use for now?

I’ve noticed the hot temperature ICE runs as well. Always surprises me when it happens. Previous model never did that. Wonder if it is some engine temperature threshold that they figured needed the engine run to even the block temperature out. Don’t think it is battery temperature related as I’ve had my battery temperature near the upper limit without the engine starting.

 

[Grandad]

I am a recent owner of a new 2023 Outlander PHEV, purchased in October 2023. I have read much about the possibility of being stranded in Sub-zero weather conditions where the main battery shuts down and will not start the engine. I am looking for advice. I live in Iowa and we are expecting sub-zero temps starting this Saturday night ( 1-13-2024) for several days. Sunday, the high temperature is expected to be in the -8° F during the day and -17°F at night this weekend and gradually warm up throughout the week. While my car is in an attached garage, it is not heated. I don't expect it to get below zero while garaged. However, I will go to work on Monday and the car will be outside for the day which has highs predicated at -6°F.

Are there any precautions I need to take to make sure it will start after sitting in temperatures of less than -6° F during the day? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Jim Petro

Hi Jim:
The critical point for the machine's pre=programmed lockout -s ~-25C (~-12/13 F?). As noted elsewhere, it is the battery temperature not just the air temperature that is the trigger (although it's the air temperature that takes the battery there obviously). While, if your vehicle is in an environment at or below that temperature you can among other things, make sure the battery is as warm as you can make it before shutting the machine down to prolong the cooling period, keep it in a warm place (garage?), or run the battery down as best you can before parking and plugging it in (again hoping that the charging process which adds a tiny bit of heat will further prolong the cooling time - although once fully charged or "too cold" it will no longer accept a charge).

Where I live in northern BC, it regularly heads down into the -30'sC and such measures are essentially a waste of time. If you live somewhere where temperatures don't getn to the levels above, at least regularly, the ideas above might help (the garage especially) but I suggest that like many of the rest of us you keep an eye on the class action suits pending to compel Mitsu to make things right.

Best of luck

 

[PHEV07]

I can now confirm that when the Ambient Temperature is above 16'C and with a Drive Battery with a SOC of lower than 60%, the ICE does not turn on when Regen Paddle is placed on B3, B4 or B5.

Now I need to try to figure out why the ICE is starting up with an ambient Temp above 28'C with HVAC off and on ECO, EV mode and B0.

When the ICE starts up in B0, EV, ECO Mode and I can pull over on the roadway, turning off the car and restarting, then placing in B0, ECO, EV, the ICE stays off for some time. Then out of the blue, in 5 to 10 minutes, the ICE starts up again, for no reason that I have been able to determine yet.

I do however, notice that the Drive Battery Temperature is higher than 50% of the gauge at this point.

Could this be the cause?

Does the ICE need to run for the Heat Pump to cool the Drive Battery?

It is unfortunate that the PHEV Watchdog App is no longer working on the 2003/2024 Models.

Anyone know of another App that we might be able to use for now?

Oops.sorry for typo. I meant 2023-2024 Models

 

[jpetro]

Hi Jim:
The critical point for the machine's pre=programmed lockout -s ~-25C (~-12/13 F?). As noted elsewhere, it is the battery temperature not just the air temperature that is the trigger (although it's the air temperature that takes the battery there obviously). While, if your vehicle is in an environment at or below that temperature you can among other things, make sure the battery is as warm as you can make it before shutting the machine down to prolong the cooling period, keep it in a warm place (garage?), or run the battery down as best you can before parking and plugging it in (again hoping that the charging process which adds a tiny bit of heat will further prolong the cooling time - although once fully charged or "too cold" it will no longer accept a charge).

Where I live in northern BC, it regularly heads down into the -30'sC and such measures are essentially a waste of time. If you live somewhere where temperatures don't getn to the levels above, at least regularly, the ideas above might help (the garage especially) but I suggest that like many of the rest of us you keep an eye on the class action suits pending to compel Mitsu to make things right.

Best of luck

Thank you.

 

[Grandad]

Yea, if you can't plug it at work there is nothing you can do but hope.

and pluging it in adds only a miniscule amount of heat to the battery which stops charging at full charge then you're fully at the mercy of the elements :-(

 

[tyleriv]

I have a 2024 PHEV kept outside and have occasionally experienced winter temperatures < -30C. I was wondering if a low wattage (say 50W) engine block warmer (typically a "blanket like" device about 100 cm^2) would help with traction battery warming. I would apply the blanket with an adhesive to the bottom of the traction battery case assuming that there is 0.5 sq meter of area available under the vehicle. I say low wattage so that it is only warm enough to keep/get the traction battery system operational. I've used these warmers on the oil pan of my BMW diesel and Audi gas vehicles (for some reason the engineers of these cars think they can defeat -30C with ease - they can't).

 

[PHEV07]

I have a 2024 PHEV kept outside and have occasionally experienced winter temperatures < -30C. I was wondering if a low wattage (say 50W) engine block warmer (typically a "blanket like" device about 100 cm^2) would help with traction battery warming. I would apply the blanket with an adhesive to the bottom of the traction battery case assuming that there is 0.5 sq meter of area available under the vehicle. I say low wattage so that it is only warm enough to keep/get the traction battery system operational. I've used these warmers on the oil pan of my BMW diesel and Audi gas vehicles (for some reason the engineers of these cars think they can defeat -30C with ease - they can't).

Yes. I have also considered looking into this as well. A heater blanket or perhaps a magnet mounted heater.

If the under body of the car can hold a Magnet heater, I would certainly try one or two. Just not certain if it may be suitable if the undercarriage is covered in ICE and/snow, since I park my vehicle outdoors in my driveway.

 

[BobK]

My only concern is by covering the battery it could cause it to overheat once it got to operating temperature. I would think the car would tell you if this is happening. I'm not familiar with these, but if they are easy to remove before driving than it may not be an issue.