Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[ptbuoy]

The "Reminder" to owners simply says that the update *may* slow the cooling - there's nothing to suggest that they've done anything except a little bit of CYA so they can blow smoke about having taken steps to address the problem.

Had the update installed 2 weeks ago. EV previously worked as it should with logic as to when the ICE would cut in. Since installation of update any logic has disappeared. ICE is now on frequently when in EV priority. Frequently when changing breaking from 2 to a higher number, get warning "EV priority mode not available." This does not make sense. Can be stopped and the ICE will come on Why? Can change to single pedal operation ICE will come on Why? Normal route l take into town I would typically use 40% of drive battery charge. Now with ICE coming on frequently l may use 20% of charge but LOTS of fuel. So much for the EV!!!Drive temperatures in the 5 to 10C range. Absolutely no LOGIC to the installed program Dealership and calling Mitsubishi customer service was nothing but frustrating. ASKED TO HAVE UPDATE REMOVED.REFUSED UNABLE!! Asked to reinstall update as maybe failed to install properly. REFUSED!
Any help[/solution.? Mitsubishi technical has to get involved but apparently an iron curtain in place
!

 

[phevGoBzzzzzz]

ICE is now on frequently when in EV priority. Frequently when changing breaking from 2 to a higher number, get warning "EV priority mode not available." This does not make sense.

This has always been the case. If your battery is more than about 2/3 full, it cannot charge fast enough to handle more than B2 levels of regen. To compensate, the "waste" the regen power by having the generator spin the ICE (without injecting fuel). They don't want this done on a cold, ublibricated engine, so they periodically idle it to warm it up and lubricate it.

 

[kpetrov]

Had the update installed 2 weeks ago. EV previously worked as it should with logic as to when the ICE would cut in. Since installation of update any logic has disappeared. ICE is now on frequently when in EV priority. Frequently when changing breaking from 2 to a higher number, get warning "EV priority mode not available." This does not make sense. Can be stopped and the ICE will come on Why? Can change to single pedal operation ICE will come on Why? Normal route l take into town I would typically use 40% of drive battery charge. Now with ICE coming on frequently l may use 20% of charge but LOTS of fuel. So much for the EV!!!Drive temperatures in the 5 to 10C range. Absolutely no LOGIC to the installed program Dealership and calling Mitsubishi customer service was nothing but frustrating. ASKED TO HAVE UPDATE REMOVED.REFUSED UNABLE!! Asked to reinstall update as maybe failed to install properly. REFUSED!
Any help[/solution.? Mitsubishi technical has to get involved but apparently an iron curtain in place
!

Welcome to the real world!
Your complain is the main Outlander PHEV complain in last years... engine kicking in for no reason even at above 0 temperatures.
Even without the "update" up in years the vehicle gets more one will experience that engine.

 

[tikan]

So I'm having similar experiences to @ptbuoy after the update. It's -2C which means I should be able to run in EV mode without issue but instead my engine is kicking on constantly. I'm not running in B mode. I don't have the defrost enabled. When I first get in the vehicle it operates like normal but after driving for a few minutes suddenly it acts like it's -30C and anytime I hit the gas it tries to kick on the engine. As you can see from my photos, even doing 30km/h it's hitting the threshold to kick the engine on. Basically have to drive at a snails pace to stay in EV mode. My battery is within the normal temperature range as well.

This is completely different than the behaviour it had prior to the update. Whatever they did when setting the thresholds for the battery temperature range has caused other battery thresholds to be screwy.

If it's going to kick my engine on during a 5 minute drive under 50 km/h this vehicle has become worthless to me - the whole reason we chose Mitsubishi was so we could drive in EV mode during normal weather but have the engine backup for road trips and cold weather.

 

[ptbuoy]

This has always been the case. If your battery is more than about 2/3 full, it cannot charge fast enough to handle more than B2 levels of regen. To compensate, the "waste" the regen power by having the generator spin the ICE (without injecting fuel). They don't want this done on a cold, ublibricated engine, so they periodically idle it to warm it up and lubricate it.

 

[ptbuoy]

Welcome to the real world!
Your complain is the main Outlander PHEV complain in last years... engine kicking in for no reason even at above 0 temperatures.
Even without the "update" up in years the vehicle gets more one will experience that engine.

Vehicle 2023 Problem occurred with update on mandatory service at 8000km Problem occurs no matter what charge remains. Any Mitsubishi factory techs monitoring this forum who give me an answer or are they prohibited!!!

 

[tikan]

I don't have "B" mode enabled. Just normal drive. This has not always happened. I've been driving it for 5 months and it's a dramatic change from one week ago even.

 

[kpetrov]

Vehicle 2023 Problem occurred with update on mandatory service at 8000km Problem occurs no matter what charge remains. Any Mitsubishi factory techs monitoring this forum who give me an answer or are they prohibited!!!

Yea I understand. What I wanted to say is the same has happened with previous models as well.
I can't be sure it was after mandatory service cause I got it second hand but a lot of owners described drastic change in engine behaviour after service centre visit (2018 - 19) models.
My engine was kicking in after a minute of driving when under 5C no matter HVAC off, no defrost and no power required.

 

[Sandman68]

Hello everyone,

Just took delivery of my 2024 phev. This issue made me hesitant but, since I live on the south shore of Montreal, it might not affect me all that often. And the fact that I work from home most of the time.

If you were not aware, there's a class action suit regarding this problem.


https://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001X3s...YzL9flvnLaGJUsXUcXFWPG2U7G4TkIffkO7aJANnPmQ==

 

[nrayanov]

Yea I understand. What I wanted to say is the same has happened with previous models as well.
I can't be sure it was after mandatory service cause I got it second hand but a lot of owners described drastic change in engine behaviour after service centre visit (2018 - 19) models.
My engine was kicking in after a minute of driving when under 5C no matter HVAC off, no defrost and no power required.

Offtopic: Whatever this update is, I don't have it. @kpetrov is it possible that one of your battery cells is in bad condition compared to the others?

Ontopic: Whatever they did with the new software for the Outlander PHEV was "too much" and needs fine-tuning. I would suggest complaining constantly to MMNA and the dealers to force the MMC to fix it ASAP.

I know they are currently doing cold and snow tests for the new Outlander PHEV before releasing it in Europe, so hopefully that would be taken into account as well. Source: https://media.mitsubishi-motors-eur...v-my23-super-all-wheel-control-system-on-ice/

 

[kpetrov]

The maximum difference in cell voltage on mine 2018 is 0.003V, not ideal but wouldn't say so bad.
It can be the culprit though.

 

[MiPHEV]

I have the older 2019 MY, but cold weather performance is something I'll be paying attention to, especially after seeing the difference a cold battery made on a really long highway trip blocking parallel mode from engaging for the whole trip - a 36% hit to fuel economy! I already sketched up a design after doing my oil change earlier in the week and crawling around under the car, and I'll probably install an auxiliary traction battery heater before next season, I'll post a thread here if/when I build such a contrivance. My initial cost estimates are that it should be roughly the same cost as installing a block heater, +/-.

 

[PHEV07]

Up to 2022 all models perform as expected, only 2023 and 2024 (new generation) with new battery are abomination in the cold.

Yes unfortunately, Mitsubishi decided to use a Heat Pump instead of including Resistive heating to Manage the Battery when the Drive Battery temp drops to below -20'C.

The Heat pump is great and much more energy efficient but unfortunately does not operate very well at Ambient Temps below -15'C, and not at all, below temps of -18'C.

Using a Block Heater has no effect on heating up the Drive Battery. From my reading, once the Drive Battery Temp (not Amb. Temp) drops to -18'C or lower tge Computer shuts everything down. No longer accepting a charge and no longer able to start the ICE.

I believe that the only way around this is for a Software upgrade to allow the ICE to start up at lower temps.

Or allow access to the Drive Battery compartment to allow something like a Hair Blower to blow Hot Air into the Main Drive Battery Compartment.

I have read that there are a few Lawsuits against Mitsubishi for not proving a Battery Management System for Sub-Zero Operation.

All models 2022 and Prior used Resistive heating and had a very good working Battery Management System for Hot and Cold Operation.

Unfortunately, with the introduction of the Heat Pump, tge 2023 and 2024 Models are only effective in Hot Operating Conditions.

I park my 2024 outside, so I too am worried about not being able to operate my PHEV this coming Winter because we do get Temps in the low -30'Cs for a several days and at times, weeks on end

I will be looking around to see if a Magnetic Pan heater may be feasable, or some sort of electric blankets that I can prop up, under the Battery.

I have also contacted the ppl that operate MyConnect Phone App to add the Battery Temp as one of the Parameters displayed, as I believe this will be very important for anyone driving in Areas where the Ambient Temp drops to below -20'C.

This will be a great Thread to follow, thank you for starting this Thread.

 

[user 7993]

I believe the heating element in the previous model was only ever used when the car is being charged, or perhaps when it is plugged in. I don't think it has the ability to heat the battery when done is driving or parked without a plug.

As for MM doing a better job with battery management in the previous model, I'm hoping my MY24 doesn't start needing all of the Dbcam nonsense the previous model has. Hopefully they fixed that.

 

[PHEV07]

I believe the heating element in the previous model was only ever used when the car is being charged, or perhaps when it is plugged in. I don't think it has the ability to heat the battery when done is driving or parked without a plug.

As for MM doing a better job with battery management in the previous model, I'm hoping my MY24 doesn't start needing all of the Dbcam nonsense the previous model has. Hopefully they fixed that.

I can confirm that the Resitive Heater worked to keep the Drive Battery warm as soon as the Ambient Temperature reached -20'C without being plugged in.

I have been fortunate enough to have been able to go to Mexico for the last 6 years

With both my 2018 and 2022 I would fully charge the Drive Battery, Remove the Charging Cable and lock in my home before flying to Mexico for 2 weeks in 2018, 2019 and 2020 for a 2 week vacation in February. When I returned, and many times in temperatures of -30'C I was able to open the car door and start the car (ICE) would run for about 3 minutes and the Drive Battery meter indicated a loss of 25%.

We could not travel in 2021 due to Covid but in 2022, 2023 and 2024 we went for 1 month. From mid Jan to mid Feb.

Again, prior to flying to Mexico I would fully Charge the Battery, Remove the Charging Cable and lock it up in my house.

Upon returning home, with the car continously unplugged, opened the door and the car would start just fine (ICE) after 29 days the Battery Meter would now be in 1/2 to 3/4 range.

Clearly proving that the Battery Nanagement System used the resistive heater to keep the Drive Battery warm.

This is also explained in the Owner's Manual.

I had also confirmed this by unplugging the charging cable when the temps were below -20'C. Leaving car unplugged over night.

In the morning I could see icicles, along the drivers side lower body just in front of the rear tire. I then opened the hood and could here a pump, I assumed that the Battery Nanagement system was working to warm up the battery and yes, Battery range had dropped by at least 5% from the night before, before unplugginthe the charge Cable.

So, yes the 2018 thru 2022 North American PHEV models were able to keep the Drive Battery warm, without being plugged it.

The 2023 and 2024 are not able to keep the Battery Warm because tge Heat Pump no longer operates at Temps below -20'C whether the Charge Cable is plugged in or not.

 

[kpetrov]

I can confirm that the Resitive Heater worked to keep the Drive Battery warm as soon as the Ambient Temperature reached -20'C without being plugged in.

Again, prior to flying to Mexico I would fully Charge the Battery, Remove the Charging Cable and lock it up in my house.

Upon returning home, with the car continously unplugged, opened the door and the car would start just fine (ICE) after 29 days the Battery Meter would now be in 1/2 to 3/4 range.

Clearly proving that the Battery Nanagement System used the resistive heater to keep the Drive Battery warm.

This is also explained in the Owner's Manual.

I had also confirmed this by unplugging the charging cable when the temps were below -20'C. Leaving car unplugged over night.

In the morning I could see icicles, along the drivers side lower body just in front of the rear tire. I then opened the hood and could here a pump, I assumed that the Battery Nanagement system was working to warm up the battery and yes, Battery range had dropped by at least 5% from the night before, before unplugginthe the charge Cable.

Do you know how much energy would be needed to keep the battery warmer 5 - 10 degree over -20 in one night not to imagine 29 days!?
Moreover there is no pump involved in battery heating. Like you have said it is restive heater inside battery pack.
The icicles in front of rear passenger tire are from the onboard charger which is cooled by a pump indeed.

 

[PHEV07]

Do you know how much energy would be needed to keep the battery warmer 5 - 10 degree over -20 in one night not to imagine 29 days!?
Moreover there is no pump involved in battery heating. Like you have said it is restive heater inside battery pack.
The icicles in front of rear passenger tire are from the onboard charger which is cooled by a pump indeed.

I no longer have my 2018 nor 2022 PHEV, but those of you that do, can you please post a photo of the Battery Management Reservoir Tank. The one located at the front passengers side.

This reservoir contains a coolant that is pumped thru the Drive Battery, to keep it from freezing and to keep it from getting too hot. One can hear tge pump works, with the engine shut off and unplugged when tge Ambient temp is tok hot or too cold.

You asked how power it would take to keep tge battery warm. I never said to keep the battery warm. I said the That tge Batterh Nangeme t system was heated (coolant heated by resistive heater) to keep the battery from getting to cold.

Let's see, my old 2022 PGEV had a 13.8Kwh Battery. If 25% was depleted to keep the Main Battery from freezing when the temps dropped below -20'C. Then 13.8 * 25%= 3.45 kWh of power was used in 29 days.

Again I no longer have the pre 2023 Generation PHEV to post photos of this.

Just have to take my word for it or wait, better yet, read the Manual. If you do infact own a 2018 to 2022, read tge Manuel and what I have posted here can be confirmed by Reading the Manual.

 

[user 7993]

I can confirm that the Resitive Heater worked to keep the Drive Battery warm as soon as the Ambient Temperature reached -20'C without being plugged in.

I have been fortunate enough to have been able to go to Mexico for the last 6 years

With both my 2018 and 2022 I would fully charge the Drive Battery, Remove the Charging Cable and lock in my home before flying to Mexico for 2 weeks in 2018, 2019 and 2020 for a 2 week vacation in February. When I returned, and many times in temperatures of -30'C I was able to open the car door and start the car (ICE) would run for about 3 minutes and the Drive Battery meter indicated a loss of 25%.

We could not travel in 2021 due to Covid but in 2022, 2023 and 2024 we went for 1 month. From mid Jan to mid Feb.

Again, prior to flying to Mexico I would fully Charge the Battery, Remove the Charging Cable and lock it up in my house.

Upon returning home, with the car continously unplugged, opened the door and the car would start just fine (ICE) after 29 days the Battery Meter would now be in 1/2 to 3/4 range.

Clearly proving that the Battery Nanagement System used the resistive heater to keep the Drive Battery warm.

This is also explained in the Owner's Manual.

I had also confirmed this by unplugging the charging cable when the temps were below -20'C. Leaving car unplugged over night.

In the morning I could see icicles, along the drivers side lower body just in front of the rear tire. I then opened the hood and could here a pump, I assumed that the Battery Nanagement system was working to warm up the battery and yes, Battery range had dropped by at least 5% from the night before, before unplugginthe the charge Cable.

So, yes the 2018 thru 2022 North American PHEV models were able to keep the Drive Battery warm, without being plugged it.

The 2023 and 2024 are not able to keep the Battery Warm because tge Heat Pump no longer operates at Temps below -20'C whether the Charge Cable is plugged in or not.

Wow. Thanks for the reply. I was just going by what I remembered from an article I had read about it. That's great. I can't for the life of me figure out what MM dropped it from the new generation.

 

[kpetrov]

I no longer have my 2018 nor 2022 PHEV, but those of you that do, can you please post a photo of the Battery Management Reservoir Tank. The one located at the front passengers side.

This reservoir contains a coolant that is pumped thru the Drive Battery, to keep it from freezing and to keep it from getting too hot.

There is NO liquid coolant going in to the battery. This coolant thank you are talking about is for cooling the PDU (power distributor unit), OBC (on board charger), RMCU (rear motor control unit) and rear motor itself.
It has nothing to do with the battery heating - cooling.

The battery is cooled by AC evaporator inside the pack and blower fan.

 

[PHEV07]

There is NO liquid coolant going in to the battery. This coolant thank you are talking about is for cooling the PDU (power distributor unit), OBC (on board charger), RMCU (rear motor control unit) and rear motor itself.
It has nothing to do with the battery heating - cooling.

The battery is cooled by AC evaporator inside the pack and blower fan.

I stand corrected, thank you.