Let's go pure EV...

[Exander]

My idea was to buy an old one, to do experiments, but I must be sure to be able of replace battery.

 

[elm70]

My idea was to buy an old one, to do experiments, but I must be sure to be able of replace battery.

The cheapest 2nd hand PHEV is still well over 15k euros .. maybe you better wait other 2 or 3 years for get something really cheap to "experiment"

Anyhow

Replace the battery is not a problem ... but you need access to some "big tools" for lift the car and take out the battery form the bottom

On Youtube, there is a video of iMiev which show how to remove the battery (done in a professional garage), and then another video of somebody that got a battery pack (the block under the Outlander PHEV), and he did disassemble for make a home power wall.

In the last video is clearly visible that the big 40Ah single cell battery could be easily replaced by any Lithium cell(s), so using more energy dense battery (like tesla 18650 cells in parallel) it would allow to have a bigger KWh pack inside the PHEV using the original BMS and battery block

Only issue is that replace battery is very expensive, it take time and professional tools ... and source Tesla 18650 cells in europe is almost impossible ... and I'm not sure I would trust generic Chinese Lithium cells since these have to be proven if they are reliable inside the car

Considering the amount of PHEV in Europe, considering that none of the PHEV now need to replace the main battery .. considering the little money gain in fuel saving my swapping the battery for a bigger one ... I don't see any "business" for now in this segment.

Maybe if you like to invest on the Outlander PHEV battery and ECU "hacking" .. yes .. an OBD2 simple tool that can give real EV and other option (like 80kw power and ICE start at 20% SOC) .. it can have a market .. but not bigger then few thousands sales ... also soon it may be a business to add an additional "small" battery in parallel to the main one ... adding 2/3kwh for ~ 500 euro it may find some customers interested on it ...

 

[AndyInOz]

...and I'm not sure I would trust generic Chinese Lithium cells since these have to be proven if they are reliable inside the car

Having seen what a lithium battery fire looks like, I'm quite certain I don't want 'cheap and cheerful' batteries under my car.

:lol:

 

[anko]

The PHEV box knows whether ECO mode is enabled or not. That is all when it comes to smarts. And I am not even sure this info comes from the CANBUS.

The idea of ECO modding came later, when the box already existed. But indeed, it seems Vtech has given up on the cause. I have given up on him, after buying some spare ECUs and waiting for him to provide tools to play with them for way too long.

 

[Exander]

Hi anko,
Ok, so we are alone, nice to hear that you have already bought some ecu to experiment. I can source for MUT-III clone but it's quite expensive (like 500$ + shipping) will it serve the scope?

 

[elm70]

The PHEV box knows whether ECO mode is enabled or not. That is all when it comes to smarts. And I am not even sure this info comes from the CANBUS.

The idea of ECO modding came later, when the box already existed. But indeed, it seems Vtech has given up on the cause. I have given up on him, after buying some spare ECUs and waiting for him to provide tools to play with them for way too long.

I guess ... Vtech is a busy man ... and I'm sure he spends his time where he can make money

I bet ... he does not make money on these boxes , even if he sell a similar boxes for different BEV/PHEV/Hybrid cars now.

Definitely he has no special passion on this PHEV, else he would spend extra time as "hobby" and share his further achievements on PHEV "hacking"

 

[KillerBob]

Is what is being discussed here the http://evtun.com/phev-box.html

 

[anko]

Yes.

 

[sawman82]

As price has come down from $1000aud to $400aud, I'm thinking of giving this one a try on my 2014 PHEV. Hard to believe a lot of people on here complaining about $400! Seriously, this VTech goes and puts a lot of time and effort into figuring stuff out, videos, wiring with expensive plugs from Mitsubishi and people want him to give it away! We in Australia have no PHEV tax breaks or rebates and have to pay full price for our cars (in my case ~$50k). So $400 in comparison to the price of the car and for the pleasure of not having the engine start seems like a bargain.

Anyways enough of that. For users who have this installed are you happy with the device? I read on another forum a user who stated power was dramatically reduced and slow off the mark,however I'm thinking he might have had a problem. If most people's experience is positive I'll give it a go. Cheers.

 

[anko]

As an early adopter I was and am quite happy with it. Although, yesterday I noticed that the engine started during 'heavy' acceleration, despite not passing the kickdown point. I think this is not because of the box, but related to the fact that my battery is pretty bad and maybe I need to recalibrate the box.

 

[maby]

As price has come down from $1000aud to $400aud, I'm thinking of giving this one a try on my 2014 PHEV. Hard to believe a lot of people on here complaining about $400! Seriously, this VTech goes and puts a lot of time and effort into figuring stuff out, videos, wiring with expensive plugs from Mitsubishi and people want him to give it away!

...

The price does have to be justifiable in terms of functionality delivered, you know! The car could cost £100,000 and I would still consider £100 high for a light bulb to fit into it. Given that the EV range of the PHEV remains less than 30 miles even with the VTech box installed, I have difficulty seeing the justification for a box costing multiple hundreds of pounds that simply suppresses an occasional ICE start while there is still charge in the battery. YMMV

 

[anko]

The price does have to be justifiable in terms of functionality delivered, you know! The car could cost £100,000 and I would still consider £100 high for a light bulb to fit into it. Given that the EV range of the PHEV remains less than 30 miles even with the VTech box installed, I have difficulty seeing the justification for a box costing multiple hundreds of pounds that simply suppresses an occasional ICE start while there is still charge in the battery. YMMV

With your usage pattern it does not make sense, as you use the PHEV as an ICE car most of the time anyway. Most of your trips are well beyond EV range, so why bother. I (and many others) have different usage patters, allowing us to attempt to use the PHEV as an EV as much as possible. And this box makes it easier to do so, even making the car more fun to drive while trying. Lots and lots of functionality for just a few bucks, I would say. Will it save you money? Probably not. Is it worth the money? Depending on what is important to you, it might very well be.

 

[sawman82]

Thanks for your input Anko. I have just placed an order for the box so let's see how it goes. I agree with your comments that it would depend on how you drive the car. I drive my car within the battery range about 80% of the time so something like this box will hopefully be very beneficial for myself in terms of personal satisfaction. Cheers.

 

[anko]

Thanks for your input Anko. I have just placed an order for the box so let's see how it goes. I agree with your comments that it would depend on how you drive the car. I drive my car within the battery range about 80% of the time so something like this box will hopefully be very beneficial for myself in terms of personal satisfaction. Cheers.

Nice. Please let us know what your experiences are.

 

[anko]

As I said before, I have recently experienced a few ICE starts that I did not expect (with the PHEV Box in place and ECO mode selected). Three or four in the last few days. I thought these would / could be related to my poor battery health, but today I hooked up my laptop to the box and found this.

Settings:


Resulting map:


With the settings for Prog 1 (the active prog), I would expect output to be at 42% (42% output triggers engine start) when input was 88% (this is when the pedal is in the kickdown position). Instead, I see output goes above 42% when throttle position is at 74ish %, well before the kickdown position.

Changes to the settings do not result in changes to the graph. Also, I am not convinced that my interior temperature sensor is still manipulated to read 13+ deg C at all times. I need a little bit more time to sort this out, but I wonder ... Is it broken?

I hope Vtechtuning can chime in and share his thoughts. Maybe it is my memory on how to read the settings and graph that is failing me.

 

[ClasseClas]

As I said before, I have recently experienced a few ICE starts that I did not expect (with the PHEV Box in place and ECO mode selected). Three or four in the last few days. I thought these would / could be related to my poor battery health, but today I hooked up my laptop to the box and found this.

Settings:
...

Resulting map:
...

With the settings for Prog 1 (the active prog), I would expect output to be at 42% (42% output triggers engine start) when input was 88% (this is when the pedal is in the kickdown position). Instead, I see output goes above 42% when throttle position is at 74ish %, well before the kickdown position.

Changes to the settings do not result in changes to the graph. Also, I am not convinced that my interior temperature sensor is still manipulated to read 13+ deg C at all times. I need a little bit more time to sort this out, but I wonder ... Is it broken?

I hope Vtechtuning can chime in and share his thoughts. Maybe it is my memory on how to read the settings and graph that is failing me.

Hi, when it comes to the ICEHeatStop sensor it is best to doublecheck with a voltmeter. I found my pin (connector) to sit a bit loose so I used a pair of pliers to gently press this connector together.

Yesterday I did some tweaking with Box Manager and found that "Engine starts" at 42 would start the engine sometimes and at 41 it seemed to work without ICE starts. I'd like to select a value in between, like "41.5" or "41,5" according to the notation of Vtech. Don't know if this works as I have not tried it out.

All in all it looks like we have tweaked into similar values. Kick start I chose to set at 89% throttle output instead.

The new Youtube video answers some of your questions, maybe not all though.
https://youtu.be/LoJ30BvK-wE

BTW, have you tried out the new FW 1.4?

 

[anko]

Yesterday I did some tweaking with Box Manager and found that "Engine starts" at 42 would start the engine sometimes and at 41 it seemed to work without ICE starts. I'd like to select a value in between, like "41.5" or "41,5" according to the notation of Vtech. Don't know if this works as I have not tried it out.

I have a summer and winter setup. In winter, with the electric heater running, 42 might be to high

BTW, have you tried out the new FW 1.4?

I haven't. Have you? What does it do exactly? How do you 'install' it? Just load the file into Box Manager?

 

[ClasseClas]

Yesterday I did some tweaking with Box Manager and found that "Engine starts" at 42 would start the engine sometimes and at 41 it seemed to work without ICE starts. I'd like to select a value in between, like "41.5" or "41,5" according to the notation of Vtech. Don't know if this works as I have not tried it out.

I have a summer and winter setup. In winter, with the electric heater running, 42 might be to high

BTW, have you tried out the new FW 1.4?

I haven't. Have you? What does it do exactly? How do you 'install' it? Just load the file into Box Manager?

Good point about about summer and winter setup.

About new FW, pls look here:
https://www.facebook.com/Phevbox/?h..._bJznrflX-WKJHtDWfX_jbqW1NH305K8w4-G4&fref=nf

Update of firmware to v1.4 is ready for 2013-1015 PHEVs. http://evtun.com/phev-box.html (download section). Tommorow - 2016-17. It adds onePedal/ePedal simulation for B5, and some extra regen for B5 in that mode. Please save your actual config, load *.b16 file, press ok, wait about 5-10 seconds for firmware update.
If you want to try new characteristics and more regen for B5 - please switch to program 7, or 8. (they differ only with level of ICE start, for winter 7 is better as it keeps reserve of power for heating. Of course after starting your car use B5 mode, find how to coast by leaving leg a bit on accelerator pedal.
Then - please follow procedure in video: https://www.facebook.com/Phevbox/videos/436294766771953/
This will fully adapt your PHEVbox with new firmware to the car.
In case of trouble you can always write old setup or even - format a box and write old setup.
2016-17 owners - PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS FIRMWARE. It wont work properly for you (extra regen won't work).

If you have any problems - contact me here. I can try to help ya with TeamViewer.

I have downloaded the FW but I have not tried it out. You download the new *.b16 file from the link in the quote. I believe you could only use program positions 7 or 8 in order to use the new FW features. In B5 mode it is supposed to turn on the brake lights when in regen for 2013-2015 models.

 

[sawman82]

Hi All. PHEV Box is installed and working. Unfortunately Mr Vtech's English is well below par so the installation and usage instructions are hard to follow. It would have been so much easier if the English was better. Anyways, his English is better than my Polish so I shouldn't complain. I have the 2014 PHEV Australian model. Below are my findings.

Installation: Took all of 5 minutes. I didn't realise it was as easy as just unplugging the plug from the top of the accelerator pedal and plugging the box in. Although it may have helped that I have a RHD car and the accelerator is on the door side so I can just kneel down outside the car and reach in. I received the ICE heater plug with the pin cut off as I didn't pay for the feature because it never gets cold enough here. I cut holes in the box for the USB cable and access to the rotary switch. Pictures at the link below.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/F2iyWQI4PGw2MTlj2

Usage: Before use I updated to the latest firmware V1.4. I calibrated the throttle and went for a test drive with my laptop connected to the box. To get the needle right at the limit of the ECO zone before it goes into POWER, I required a number of 46% in the Engine Starts Column. ICE would not start if I held pedal below the 86% in the Kick Start column. I went and had a bit of a play and set Kick Start and Kick Hard to 99%. I could then put the pedal to the metal and ICE would not start. I thought, perfect, this is what I want, if I want more power I will just put it back to NORMAL mode and it would be all good. However even when I switched the car to NORMAL mode it was still obeying these rules and the ICE would not start. I thought the box only worked when you selected ECO mode, so I have learn't something here. Luckily the hill I was going up at the time wasn't too steep so I was able to get going in electric only mode. Seems NORMAL mode is similar to ECO but just a bit more kW available. I sort of figured this out from the manual but it isn't very clear.

Using the new firmware in B5 I can report that >35kW is being regenerated (viewed from the trip section on the MMCS). I hadn't looked at this previously so not sure if any better than usual. On firmware V1.4 I couldn't notice any difference between the maps for 1-6 but the map for 7-8 are very different.

Questions

1. I don't really understand his definitions for Engine Starts & Kick Start. Is Engine Starts equivalent to a setting that puts the power needle at the maximum value it can be before the ICE starts? Is Kick Start = Just a throttle position that will cause the ICE to start and start generating power? Even if set to 90% it is still hard to not hit this sometimes as limiting most of the pedal range to the electric it is hard to gauge where in the range you are and how far you have pressed the pedal. On a very steep hill from a stand still it is hard to get going at all. Even at the lights on a slight incline you are taking off as a grandma would, however I guess this is where you are making energy savings.

2. Does doing the throttle calibration create the map? Or is the map something that Vtech has created? I see somewhere it says you can use the arrow keys to edit the curve, although I haven't tried this. If I have the 2014 PHEV should I ensure that I only use dial position 4 and make all my changes there? Is the V1.4 software same the the previous with the exception of 7-8 maps?

3. Instructions for the box manager arn't very clear. There is no positive indication of what firmware you are using. Also when do you use SEND MAP? Would be good if you could look at maps when not connected to the box.

Ahh, too many questions.

 

[elm70]

...
Using the new firmware in B5 I can report that >35kW is being regenerated (viewed from the trip section on the MMCS).
...

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to have burst current to the battery pack, with power above 35kw

I would be more then happy to be able to use B5 without having ever to exceed 20kw in recharge / regen breaking

Like Chademo can arm the battery, even more burst of high current do degradate faster the battery pack.

PS: Mr Vtech ... has his own custom battery with over 20kwh capacity ... so for him maybe is better to have more regen .. but for all the other it is a bad idea