Fatal trip

[anko]

In the Netherlands, there were, at some point, people that were convinced that you would continuously use / waste some electricity if you did not put the selector in P or N when stopped at a traffic light. Why? Because as soon as you lift the break pedal, the car starts rolling. So, in their opinion, there had to be power applied to the motors right before that.

Well, I think we all agree that power will be applied to the motors only when you start lifting the break pedal and not before that. As a matter of fact, you can see it in the display: the bleu arrow from battery to wheel comes on only just before the car takes off.

No I for one don't - quite. If you are holding the car in drive on the handbrake (as per UK Highway Code) then the motors are straining against the mechanical brake - you will see the blue arrow from battery to wheel indicated and if you take it out of drive the car physically eases back. Whilst holding on the foot brake does stop this, of course you are burning electricity in the brake lights and annoying the driver behind

So, you agree with me. Power is only applied to the motors when you lift the brake pedal

 

[gwatpe]

Hi Phev64,

the battery is charged in CHARGE mode, but not while driving. looks like there is a problem with the lockout of systems when driving ,[ like use of the setup menu ], affecting pertinent computer system operation controlling battery recharging.. Might be corrupted computer coding after all.

We don't get to drive the PHEV at over 110kph in many places in Australia legally. I suspect that there will be a few cars that have serious problems and how Mitsubishi make use of the opportunity to fix and improve the systems will influence prospective buyers, and the peace of mind of present owners.

Actually gwatpe the battery will charge with charge mode whilst you are driving, well at least ours does!

Cheers

NAPpy

actually my first line was a question to the OP and not any observation I had made.

 

[Phev64]

@Kim @anko @Grigou

On my PHEV Intense, bought in July 2014, the activation of the CC does the following :
- in "B0" : back to "B2", then activation
- in "B1" : back to "B2", then activation
- in "B2" : activation maintaining "B2"
- in "B3" : activation maintaining "B3"
- in "B4" : activation maintaining "B4"
- in "B5" : activation maintaining "B5"

With the CC activated, I can move to any "Bx" position between "B2" and "B5".

Trying to go to "B1" with the CC activated generates a double beep and a stay in "B2".

If you have different results, I would be interested in knowing if somebody has a back to "B2", then activation for any "Bx" set before the activation of the CC.

Thanks

 

[kljasdfbkjaaalke]

@Kim @anko @Grigou

On my PHEV Intense, bought in July 2014, the activation of the CC does the following :
- in "B0" : back to "B2", then activation
- in "B1" : back to "B2", then activation
- in "B2" : activation maintaining "B2"
- in "B3" : activation maintaining "B3"
- in "B4" : activation maintaining "B4"
- in "B5" : activation maintaining "B5"

With the CC activated, I can move to any "Bx" position between "B2" and "B5".

Trying to go to "B1" with the CC activated generates a double beep and a stay in "B2".

If you have different results, I would be interested in knowing if somebody has a back to "B2", then activation for any "Bx" set before the activation of the CC.

Thanks

Same behaviour here in Sweden. Mine from a batch summer 2014.

 

[anko]

Same behaviour here in Sweden. Mine from a batch summer 2014.

Will check tomorrow. Does your car have ACC as well? If not, could that make the difference?

 

[Phev64]

Will check tomorrow. Does your car have ACC as well? If not, could that make the difference?

CC only for me. For sure it can. Different car, different equipment, potentially different firmware.

Interesting in any case to know if it has been managed the same or not in both cars.

 

[Grigou]

@Kim @anko @Grigou

On my PHEV Intense, bought in July 2014, the activation of the CC does the following :
- in "B0" : back to "B2", then activation
- in "B1" : back to "B2", then activation
- in "B2" : activation maintaining "B2"
- in "B3" : activation maintaining "B3"
- in "B4" : activation maintaining "B4"
- in "B5" : activation maintaining "B5"

With the CC activated, I can move to any "Bx" position between "B2" and "B5".

Trying to go to "B1" with the CC activated generates a double beep and a stay in "B2".

If you have different results, I would be interested in knowing if somebody has a back to "B2", then activation for any "Bx" set before the activation of the CC.

Thanks

Will verify asap, but I suppose I have the same behaviour (sorry, I didn't notice the particularity of B0 and B1 because I generally don't use them).

 

[anko]

Sorry, I messed up. I thought I was not able to B-up, but instead I was not able to B-down. So behaviour for me is the same as described by PHEV64.

 

[gwatpe]

I share your interrogations. That's not a big deal for me. The standard use of my car is downtown and in this case, it's really a pleasure !

But your car still has un big problem.

I think that MMC France must resolve it before the end of the 5 years warranty... at least if you consider to sell it later

I'm not the car's owner so no problem for me when MMC will take it back in 3 years and a half. I rent it.
However, if there is really a problem, I am interested in fixing in.
I'd like to hear the feedback of drivers riding on long trips with the cruise control, higher than 130 km/h, without the save.

I have found that the PHEV computer is just lacking some useful smart aspects with the operation of the various modes. It would be smart for the car to automatically put the car in SAVE mode when say the speed is over 110kph.

I have found that depending on the road condition, ACC uses more fuel than CC.

 

[jaapv]

Then why do I feel a distinct change when I press the pedal down firmly? One can even regulate the amount of creep by the brake pedal (i.e. depressed)The display tells me exactly nothing. There are several instances when it does not reflect the real state of the car. (for instance the not showing of the electrical power on the rear motor when cruising in parallel mode) The electric motors are clearly powered up when the brake pedal is depressed just enough to hold the car.

In the Netherlands, there were, at some point, people that were convinced that you would continuously use / waste some electricity if you did not put the selector in P or N when stopped at a traffic light. Why? Because as soon as you lift the break pedal, the car starts rolling. So, in their opinion, there had to be power applied to the motors right before that.

Well, I think we all agree that power will be applied to the motors only when you start lifting the break pedal and not before that. As a matter of fact, you can see it in the display: the bleu arrow from battery to wheel comes on only just before the car takes off.

No I for one don't - quite. If you are holding the car in drive on the handbrake (as per UK Highway Code) then the motors are straining against the mechanical brake - you will see the blue arrow from battery to wheel indicated and if you take it out of drive the car physically eases back. Whilst holding on the foot brake does stop this, of course you are burning electricity in the brake lights and annoying the driver behind

So, you agree with me. Power is only applied to the motors when you lift the brake pedal

 

[anko]

It would be smart for the car to automatically put the car in SAVE mode when say the speed is over 110kph.

I am so glad it doesn't do that. When I have enough energy in my battery left to get home or to the next charging station, I do not want to to burn fuel.

 

[anko]

Then why do I feel a distinct change when I press the pedal down firmly? One can even regulate the amount of creep by the brake pedal (i.e. depressed)The display tells me exactly nothing. There are several instances when it does not reflect the real state of the car. (for instance the not showing of the electrical power on the rear motor when cruising in parallel mode) The electric motors are clearly powered up when the brake pedal is depressed just enough to hold the car.

So, you agree with me. Power is only applied to the motors when you lift the brake pedal

Jaap, you are saying exactly the same thing as I did: You firmly press the brake pedal. No power is applied. The you start lifting the pedal, and even before the car actually takes off, power is applied to the motors. BTW: You can see this in the display.

Note: I said "lift the break pedal", not "totally lift the brak pedal".

 

[jaapv]

Always happy when people agree (with me :mrgreen: )

 

[gwatpe]

It would be smart for the car to automatically put the car in SAVE mode when say the speed is over 110kph.

I am so glad it doesn't do that. When I have enough energy in my battery left to get home or to the next charging station, I do not want to to burn fuel.

I guess my driving is not dictated by the cost of electricity to recharge, so I am not concerned about tying to reach a free fill stop. The way the car operates is only a concern when there is no petrol left in the tank.

I have no desire to let the PHEV control my use of it, except in really deep water crossings. :lol:

I just believe that for highway use, to have the car go to save mode would save emptying the battery automatically. The driver could hold the button down and deliberately revert to EV mode to do this if desired. I see more problems with an empty battery, and getting limp mode, than one with some capacity remaining for say overtaking. I don't drive my PHEV as a competition to use no petrol. It is a hybrid and I accept that petrol will be needed when conditions for it prevail.

 

[maby]

...

I guess my driving is not dictated by the cost of electricity to recharge, so I am not concerned about tying to reach a free fill stop. The way the car operates is only a concern when there is no petrol left in the tank.

I have no desire to let the PHEV control my use of it, except in really deep water crossings. :lol:

I just believe that for highway use, to have the car go to save mode would save emptying the battery automatically. The driver could hold the button down and deliberately revert to EV mode to do this if desired. I see more problems with an empty battery, and getting limp mode, than one with some capacity remaining for say overtaking. I don't drive my PHEV as a competition to use no petrol. It is a hybrid and I accept that petrol will be needed when conditions for it prevail.

I think it should go further than you are suggesting - we should have a mode that is specifically designed for long range use without the ability to charge. This should be a "Prius-type mode" which retains a relatively high level of charge in the battery to provide the reserve for high load usage such as high speed runs or climbing steep hills and to provide the breathing space if you run out of petrol. This mode should actively recharge the battery when the level falls outside a set window. I would also like it to be sticky - if I leave home with a full battery knowing that I'm going to be on the road for several days (or even weeks) without charging, then the car should allow the battery to discharge to around 75% in order to make regenerative braking effective, then cycle it between something like 60% and 80% until further notice.

 

[jaapv]

Isn't that what the Charge button does? Topping up to 80% whenever possible.

 

[maby]

Isn't that what the Charge button does? Topping up to 80% whenever possible.

The Charge button is a pretty blunt instrument and we know that it is very fuel inefficient. I would prefer an option that is closer to the way that the Prius works - setting a target charge level of around 70% but giving the electronics a fair amount of lee-way in the way that they achieve this. On a long and relatively high speed run, the strategy may be indistinguishable from having the Charge button pressed, but in normal mixed-mode driving, it should not get too paranoid about the battery level falling below 50% on the basis that a combination of regenerative braking and dumping spare output from the generator into the battery will probably bring it back up over the next few miles without burning extra petrol to achieve it.

It's really just shifting the battery level floor up to 60 or 70% from its default 20%. I would also like it to be sticky - this is something to engage and forget about when we leave the house on a multi-day trip. I know that I can get the same effect by careful planning, monitoring the charge levels and fiddling with the Charge and Save buttons, but it is an irritation and easy to forget. I would assume that a high proportion of Outlander owners are going to set out across Europe in the next few months on holidays lasting two weeks or more, spending days on the road, covering thousands of miles and with little, if any, opportunity to charge - a sticky non-plugin hybrid mode would be a real benefit.

 

[jaapv]

I think such a button would be as inefficient as the Charge button. The concept of the Prius is not the same as the one Mitsubshi has chosen. For one thing, the battery capacity is one third of the Mitsubishi, making it more of a full hybrid.

 

[user 258]

Isn't that what the Charge button does? Topping up to 80% whenever possible.

The Charge button is a pretty blunt instrument and we know that it is very fuel inefficient. I would prefer an option that is closer to the way that the Prius works - setting a target charge level of around 70% but giving the electronics a fair amount of lee-way in the way that they achieve this. On a long and relatively high speed run, the strategy may be indistinguishable from having the Charge button pressed, but in normal mixed-mode driving, it should not get too paranoid about the battery level falling below 50% on the basis that a combination of regenerative braking and dumping spare output from the generator into the battery will probably bring it back up over the next few miles without burning extra petrol to achieve it.

It's really just shifting the battery level floor up to 60 or 70% from its default 20%. I would also like it to be sticky - this is something to engage and forget about when we leave the house on a multi-day trip. I know that I can get the same effect by careful planning, monitoring the charge levels and fiddling with the Charge and Save buttons, but it is an irritation and easy to forget. I would assume that a high proportion of Outlander owners are going to set out across Europe in the next few months on holidays lasting two weeks or more, spending days on the road, covering thousands of miles and with little, if any, opportunity to charge - a sticky non-plugin hybrid mode would be a real benefit.

It just goes to show that whatever Mitsubishi did they could never please everyone. I find the current setup pretty good. I'd like an option under settings that dropped the temperature at which the ICE would run to provide heat (as the Ampera has) and possibly a CITY EV mode too which makes it much harder for the ICE to accidentally start while driving. Really though, the car has so much stuff just about right.
kind regards,
Mark

Kind regards,
Mark

 

[maby]

...

It just goes to show that whatever Mitsubishi did they could never please everyone. I find the current setup pretty good. I'd like an option under settings that dropped the temperature at which the ICE would run to provide heat (as the Ampera has) and possibly a CITY EV mode too which makes it much harder for the ICE to accidentally start while driving. Really though, the car has so much stuff just about right.
kind regards,
Mark

Kind regards,
Mark

Well, I'm certainly not jumping up and down, shouting about its absence, but I do think it is as valid as the wish for a pure EV mode. The Outlander is a sufficiently large and expensive 4WD that many users are going to take it on extended trips and the current programming does not address that well.