Fatal trip

[Grigou]

I share your interrogations. That's not a big deal for me. The standard use of my car is downtown and in this case, it's really a pleasure !

But your car still has un big problem.

I think that MMC France must resolve it before the end of the 5 years warranty... at least if you consider to sell it later

 

[greendwarf]

I can see no logic in the level of regenerative braking impacting the fuel consumption on a flat section of open road. The only thing I can think is somehow the setting is creating a drag, like a dynamo. However, that would imply something is not "uncoupling" for want of a better turn of phrase, because the regenerative forces should only apply when the accelerator is being eased off, not applied.

It is also my impression when driving that decreasing the B setting feels like reducing drag but that maybe subconscious with the accelerator needing less pressure.

However, in the scenario described above flat, highway i.e. cruising, he is missing out on opportunities to coast because every time the accelerator is eased, B5 immediately slows the car, so he has to push the pedal to maintain speed. This endless cycling i.e. pumping the accelerator, will use lots more fuel than driving in Drive (B2). It might be even worse using CC?

 

[Phev64]

I share your interrogations. That's not a big deal for me. The standard use of my car is downtown and in this case, it's really a pleasure !

But your car still has un big problem.

I think that MMC France must resolve it before the end of the 5 years warranty... at least if you consider to sell it later

I'm not the car's owner so no problem for me when MMC will take it back in 3 years and a half. I rent it.
However, if there is really a problem, I am interested in fixing in.
I'd like to hear the feedback of drivers riding on long trips with the cruise control, higher than 130 km/h, without the save.

 

[Phev64]

It is also my impression when driving that decreasing the B setting feels like reducing drag but that maybe subconscious with the accelerator needing less pressure. ?

It's not an impression. I feel exactly the same.

 

[anko]

I'm not the car's owner so no problem for me when MMC will take it back in 3 years and a half. I rent it

I was about to ask you if you had leased the car, because of your laid back attitude :lol:

But if I may ask, are your wife and kids rentals too? I mean, have you considered the possibility that this issue could actually be dangerous?

What if, for example, the excess fuel consumption is related to heat generated by the rear motor .... which is located not too far from your fuel tank .... Then we may never know how this story ends

 

[anko]

It is also my impression when driving that decreasing the B setting feels like reducing drag but that maybe subconscious with the accelerator needing less pressure. ?

It's not an impression. I feel exactly the same.

But that is the whole point. Increased B setting results in increased drag. But only in relation the your throttle position.

In the Netherlands, there were, at some point, people that were convinced that you would continuously use / waste some electricity if you did not put the selector in P or N when stopped at a traffic light. Why? Because as soon as you lift the break pedal, the car starts rolling. So, in their opinion, there had to be power applied to the motors right before that.

Well, I think we all agree that power will be applied to the motors only when you start lifting the break pedal and not before that. As a matter of fact, you can see it in the display: the bleu arrow from battery to wheel comes on only just before the car takes off.

The same way I think we all agree that the drag from B settings should only exist when your throttle is in a position that ask for it. And not when you are driving 130 kmh steady.

 

[Regulo]

Excuse my ignorance, but how can an electric motor be consuming electricity (driving the car), and providing electricity (re-gen braking) at the same time? Doesn't seem likely. Surely it's one or the other, not both simultaneously? Baffled by this thread, frankly. Unless one motor is driving and one re-genning (is that a word?). :?:

 

[anko]

Above 130 km/h the car is always in parallel mode. So, the engine is driving the front wheels directly. This leaves room for the motors to regen or at least create drag. Basically, this is the same with the 12 volt generator on a normal car. It generates electricity while the engine provides power.

But you would expect to gain electricity in this process. So, the big question: how do you loose electricity? Perhaps the drag in the motor is converted into heat instead of electricity.

 

[Regulo]

So what we're saying is the car is acting as though the Save or Charge button is pressed when it isn't? If I drive at 130kmH, with B0 selected, and neither Save or Charge selected, where does the electricity produced by the motors go? Or can the motors be "told" not to produce electricity? Sorry if I'm sounding thick, I take a very simplistic view of the world!

 

[Kim]

I'm pretty shure that there's a generator mounted aside the ICE. The drive motors only produce electricity when the car is slowing down (braking) and they do not consume electricity then.
One generator only to deliver elect. when the ICE is running, and two motors who can deliver regenerative, right?

 

[Kim]

One more thing: in the tester I drove, I couldn't maintain the B in 3, 4 or 5 when engaging the CC or ACC.
It went back to D as soon as I set the speed, and I couldn't change it through the paddles or the shift joystick during CC or ACC... Neither up nor down, just D until I canceled.

 

[maby]

So what we're saying is the car is acting as though the Save or Charge button is pressed when it isn't? If I drive at 130kmH, with B0 selected, and neither Save or Charge selected, where does the electricity produced by the motors go? Or can the motors be "told" not to produce electricity? Sorry if I'm sounding thick, I take a very simplistic view of the world!

If they are permanent magnet motors, they will generate electricity, but the drag generated will be proportional to the current drawn from them. If no current is drawn, the drag will be minimal - this is why regenerative braking does not work with a full battery.

 

[anko]

One generator only to deliver elect. when the ICE is running, and two motors who can deliver regenerative, right?

Right

 

[anko]

One more thing: in the tester I drove, I couldn't maintain the B in 3, 4 or 5 when engaging the CC or ACC.
It went back to D as soon as I set the speed, and I couldn't change it through the paddles or the shift joystick during CC or ACC... Neither up nor down, just D until I canceled.

Same here. But I am pretty convinced this has to do with comfort. Or maybe the (A)CC learned how to control speed in a car that was set to B2 and will get confused when it needs to control speed in a car with a different setting. We all know that throttle response changes with different B settings. Maybe this is disturbing for (A)CC.

And, like you said you could not go up but also not down. If it was for efficiency reasons, they would have selected B0 instead of B2 or D, right?

 

[anko]

So what we're saying is the car is acting as though the Save or Charge button is pressed when it isn't? If I drive at 130kmH, with B0 selected, and neither Save or Charge selected, where does the electricity produced by the motors go? Or can the motors be "told" not to produce electricity? Sorry if I'm sounding thick, I take a very simplistic view of the world!

If they are permanent magnet motors, they will generate electricity, but the drag generated will be proportional to the current drawn from them. If no current is drawn, the drag will be minimal - this is why regenerative braking does not work with a full battery.

As a matter of fact, a little bit of power is fed to the motors when driving in parallel mode, to eliminate this baseline drag.

 

[Grigou]

One more thing: in the tester I drove, I couldn't maintain the B in 3, 4 or 5 when engaging the CC or ACC.
It went back to D as soon as I set the speed, and I couldn't change it through the paddles or the shift joystick during CC or ACC... Neither up nor down, just D until I canceled.

Same here. But I am pretty convinced this has to do with comfort. Or maybe the (A)CC learned how to control speed in a car that was set to B2 and will get confused when it needs to control speed in a car with a different setting. We all know that throttle response changes with different B settings. Maybe this is disturbing for (A)CC.

And, like you said you could not go up but also not down. If it was for efficiency reasons, they would have selected B0 instead of B2 or D, right?

Very strange : in my car (french Intense) I can activate CC with B0 to B5 staying active.
And I can change the settings from B0 to B5 with CC staying active.
And many other owners of Intense or Instyle can do so.

 

[Kim]

Very strange in fact!
The car i tested was the top model from sept. 2014.

The one I ordered will arrive together with a new batch for Switzerland soon in february.
My dealer said there will be a few minor changes outside and inside, but he wasen't sure what exactly will be different compared to the late 2014 models.
But I will open a new thread adressing this.

What date is your Outlander PHEV?
Maybe a later software update on my tester?

 

[anko]

Mine is from November 2013. And it does not allow it. When I get to the exit of the motorway, I first have to cancel out of CC before I can select B5.

 

[Grigou]

Mine is from september 2014, but was certainly build before

Perhaps we could compare the real dates of production with the hidden menu of the MMCS, because if I remember well there are some old dates on some screens ... (maybe april for mine, but not sure).

 

[greendwarf]

In the Netherlands, there were, at some point, people that were convinced that you would continuously use / waste some electricity if you did not put the selector in P or N when stopped at a traffic light. Why? Because as soon as you lift the break pedal, the car starts rolling. So, in their opinion, there had to be power applied to the motors right before that.

Well, I think we all agree that power will be applied to the motors only when you start lifting the break pedal and not before that. As a matter of fact, you can see it in the display: the bleu arrow from battery to wheel comes on only just before the car takes off.

No I for one don't - quite. If you are holding the car in drive on the handbrake (as per UK Highway Code) then the motors are straining against the mechanical brake - you will see the blue arrow from battery to wheel indicated and if you take it out of drive the car physically eases back. Whilst holding on the foot brake does stop this, of course you are burning electricity in the brake lights and annoying the driver behind