WARNING: Phev 2022 Regen Braking Hopeless

[littlescrote]

But what confuses me... is why start the engine?? The thing has brakes for **** sakes! Just reduce regen and let me use the brakes... don't make me use gas. That is quite a brain dead solution if you ask me.

A turning engine does not mean it is using gas for ****'s sake! These things don't have carburettors that suck in gas whatever you know. Fuel injection means that the injectors can stay closed and it just gets used as an air brake on a closed throttle. I guess if you're used to automatic transmissions you wouldn't necessarily be familiar with going downhill in a low gear to use engine braking rather than wear the friction brakes? Bu that's a common advanced driving technique, particularly applicable with heavy vehicles or when towing etc.

 

[IslandLife]

Owned many a standard vehicle in my day and used low gears to moderate downhill speeds on many a road trip through mountain passes and every weekend up to the ski hill and back, but had no idea that engine braking basically doesn't use fuel. Not sure how I managed to avoid that tidbit of info all these years... great to hear!

 

[NZPHEV2022]

But what confuses me... is why start the engine?? The thing has brakes for **** sakes! Just reduce regen and let me use the brakes... don't make me use gas. That is quite a brain dead solution if you ask me.

The best bit is when the engine starts, if you select B5, it revs immediately to about 4800rpm from cold to provide air pump braking. Fuel use or not, I cant see that is good for the engine. Gotta agree, its a brain dead solution. Just limit current flow to the battery on regen as the previous model does, no need to use the engine.
It does use fuel tho. After you deselect Regen Braking mode, the engine idles for about 2 mins not under load, before it turns off. Guess thats to circulate the oil to prevent engine damage...hang on, that damage has already been done by reving to 4800 from cold. Yep, brain dead solution Mitsubishi.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

Yes it is to stop battery degredation. Alongside the new AC system to help keep battery temperatures down, and the new watercooled exhaust manifold built in to the cylinder head, to help warm the systems up to normal operating temperature more efficiently.

Yeah mostly great improvements to protect the battery. However, just limit the current to the battery at high SOC. No need to start the ICE from cold and rev the **** out of it. Protect the battery, damage the engine.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

Or perhaps this is just a spam spoiler from a rival manufacturer. The OP registered just to tell us this - so not an existing PHEV driver nor a newbie looking for advice and no follow up . I smell a rat! :idea:

Perhaps Admin should consider removing the post and blocking the poster. :twisted:

No, I own one. Just trying to make people aware of this change. Wouldnt have bought it if I had known it had changed this much. I had a 2015 PHEV before this new one. Driven PHEV for 5 years now.
Perhaps greendwarf should take one for a test drive, with a battery above 60% charge and see for himself, or maybe he works for Mitsi, trying to discredit reports of what is a major change.
Sorry to disappoint yr conspiracy theory.

Hmmm no response from greendwarf. To apply the logic he applied to my lack of instant reply, I think he must work for Mitsi, and was trying to bury some negative feedback. Or maybe not......

 

[littlescrote]

Owned many a standard vehicle in my day and used low gears to moderate downhill speeds on many a road trip through mountain passes and every weekend up to the ski hill and back, but had no idea that engine braking basically doesn't use fuel. Not sure how I managed to avoid that tidbit of info all these years... great to hear!

Yep, as long as it's fuel injection and mapped that way. Carburettors will still suck in fuel so on a motorbike with a kill switch you could do the old trick of switching it off and suck a bit of fuel through the engine unburnt and then put the ignition back on and make a bang. Some silly people have their injection system remapped to add fuel on the overrun to pop and fart as if they think they're in a rally car or something (where fuel is added to keep the turbo spinning to reduce 'turbo lag').

 

[littlescrote]

Yeah mostly great improvements to protect the battery. However, just limit the current to the battery at high SOC. No need to start the ICE from cold and rev the **** out of it. Protect the battery, damage the engine.

If you limit the current then you'll have to limit the retardation and reduce the consistency of 1 pedal driving. Why is turning the engine over on a closed throttle with no fuel damaging it? It's a pretty easy ride compared to actually running. Given that an engine will run for hundreds of thousands of miles with very little wear, I wouldn't be overly concerned. I'd rather the battery was protected and the driving experience were consistent. Safety is also a factor here. People expect retardation when lifting off the accelerator pedal.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

Yeah mostly great improvements to protect the battery. However, just limit the current to the battery at high SOC. No need to start the ICE from cold and rev the **** out of it. Protect the battery, damage the engine.

If you limit the current then you'll have to limit the retardation and reduce the consistency of 1 pedal driving. Why is turning the engine over on a closed throttle with no fuel damaging it? It's a pretty easy ride compared to actually running. Given that an engine will run for hundreds of thousands of miles with very little wear, I wouldn't be overly concerned. I'd rather the battery was protected and the driving experience were consistent. Safety is also a factor here. People expect retardation when lifting off the accelerator pedal.

It doesnt happen in 1 pedal mode. Just when you use REGENERATIVE braking via the paddles. Doesnt make sense.
1 pedal consistency is achieved by initially max recharge the battery can take, then friction brakes, no engine start.
Engine only starts in regen braking mode 3, 4 and 5 via the paddles.
You do get some retardation in Drive mode, equivalent to B2. That doesnt start the engine either.
Turning over an engine at high revs, 4800 rpm, from cold before the Oil has circulated cant be good for an engine. Fuel input has no effect on lube.
When you turn the engine on to charge, it runs at idle with no load for about 2 min to warm up and circulate oil, before it starts generating power. Why not rev straight up like it does on braking start. Me thinks its to protect the engine. Again no consistency.

 

[littlescrote]

Fuelling does make a huge difference to the internal stresses in an engine. Dealing with the forces from the expansion of the gas through combustion is massively different to it operating as an air pump. The loads through the big end bearings for one is massive and cylinder wear is nothing without the heat from combustion. An engine used as an air ump doesn't need lubricating as well as one that is combusting.

 

[Nut17]

We have only had our new PHEV for a couple of weeks and travelled 750 km. I am pretty happy to just stick with the "one pedal" default regen braking system. I am ecstatic with our new VRX and the only disappointment being the EV mode reality range compared to the advertised claim. Around 65 km is my realistic maximum range - driving in "eco" mode and minimal open road 100kph travel. It still fits the bill for us and very little petrol will be used. I have it set up to charge between 11.00 pm and 7.00 am to coincide with our half price night rate electricity. $3.00 for 17.95 KWH (largest charge so far even though the battery was showing fully discharged prior to plugging in) I have purchased a 16 Amp AC charger.

 

[Trex]

Yes it is to stop battery degredation. Alongside the new AC system to help keep battery temperatures down, and the new watercooled exhaust manifold built in to the cylinder head, to help warm the systems up to normal operating temperature more efficiently.

Sounds like they made some good decisions I think.

As someone who has replaced a drive battery under warranty on my oldest PHEV seems like they made some good decisions
especially for our hot climate here in Australia. New AC system is especially good news IMHO.

 

[IslandLife]

We have only had our new PHEV for a couple of weeks and travelled 750 km. I am pretty happy to just stick with the "one pedal" default regen braking system. I am ecstatic with our new VRX and the only disappointment being the EV mode reality range compared to the advertised claim. Around 65 km is my realistic maximum range - driving in "eco" mode and minimal open road 100kph travel. It still fits the bill for us and very little petrol will be used. I have it set up to charge between 11.00 pm and 7.00 am to coincide with our half price night rate electricity. $3.00 for 17.95 KWH (largest charge so far even though the battery was showing fully discharged prior to plugging in) I have purchased a 16 Amp AC charger.

I believe you're in New Zealand or Australia? It's typical for you to lose about 20% range during the winter. Colder battery temps and more use of heat impacts the range... also A/C. but this hurts range less than heat. Does this new model have a heat pump? Which would help. Also any driving over about 70km/h hurts the "advertised" range as well. In my 2022 model, I'm getting between 50 to 60 kms of range around town (spring/summer/fall) which should equate to 80 to 90 kms in the new version.

 

[greendwarf]

Or perhaps this is just a spam spoiler from a rival manufacturer. The OP registered just to tell us this - so not an existing PHEV driver nor a newbie looking for advice and no follow up . I smell a rat! :idea:

Perhaps Admin should consider removing the post and blocking the poster. :twisted:

No, I own one. Just trying to make people aware of this change. Wouldnt have bought it if I had known it had changed this much. I had a 2015 PHEV before this new one. Driven PHEV for 5 years now.
Perhaps greendwarf should take one for a test drive, with a battery above 60% charge and see for himself, or maybe he works for Mitsi, trying to discredit reports of what is a major change.
Sorry to disappoint yr conspiracy theory.

Fair enough, my apologies. I'd love to test drive one but as no longer marketed in Europe, this is unlikely to happen.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

We have only had our new PHEV for a couple of weeks and travelled 750 km. I am pretty happy to just stick with the "one pedal" default regen braking system. I am ecstatic with our new VRX and the only disappointment being the EV mode reality range compared to the advertised claim. Around 65 km is my realistic maximum range - driving in "eco" mode and minimal open road 100kph travel. It still fits the bill for us and very little petrol will be used. I have it set up to charge between 11.00 pm and 7.00 am to coincide with our half price night rate electricity. $3.00 for 17.95 KWH (largest charge so far even though the battery was showing fully discharged prior to plugging in) I have purchased a 16 Amp AC charger.

I believe you're in New Zealand or Australia? It's typical for you to lose about 20% range during the winter. Colder battery temps and more use of heat impacts the range... also A/C. but this hurts range less than heat. Does this new model have a heat pump? Which would help. Also any driving over about 70km/h hurts the "advertised" range as well. In my 2022 model, I'm getting between 50 to 60 kms of range around town (spring/summer/fall) which should equate to 80 to 90 kms in the new version.

No heat pump but has electric heater, about 3kw so fair sucks the battery.
I do a 74km round trip to work including a 320m hill (brake pedal to get regen on way down as the paddles are useless above 60% charge) and some 80 to 100kmh roads. I can do that on a charge if I dont use electric heater too much. Charger is set at 10amps so normal plug. Takes about 9.5 hrs from flat and adds 18.3kwh. So system reserves about 1.5kwh for hybrid operation.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

Or perhaps this is just a spam spoiler from a rival manufacturer. The OP registered just to tell us this - so not an existing PHEV driver nor a newbie looking for advice and no follow up . I smell a rat! :idea:

Perhaps Admin should consider removing the post and blocking the poster. :twisted:

No, I own one. Just trying to make people aware of this change. Wouldnt have bought it if I had known it had changed this much. I had a 2015 PHEV before this new one. Driven PHEV for 5 years now.
Perhaps greendwarf should take one for a test drive, with a battery above 60% charge and see for himself, or maybe he works for Mitsi, trying to discredit reports of what is a major change.
Sorry to disappoint yr conspiracy theory.

Fair enough, my apologies. I'd love to test drive one but as no longer marketed in Europe, this is unlikely to happen.

I can see why u might have been suspicious. Apology accepted, not many people would have done that so huge kudos to you.
I think we are the guinea pigs for new model launch in NZ, so may come yr way.
Mitsi NZ have had huge negative feedback about this feature, so it might get fixed, hopefully.

 

[IslandLife]

No heat pump but has electric heater, about 3kw so fair sucks the battery.
I do a 74km round trip to work including a 320m hill (brake pedal to get regen on way down as the paddles are useless above 60% charge) and some 80 to 100kmh roads. I can do that on a charge if I dont use electric heater too much. Charger is set at 10amps so normal plug. Takes about 9.5 hrs from flat and adds 18.3kwh. So system reserves about 1.5kwh for hybrid operation.

Are you sure about the heat pump? Everything I've researched online says the new version does have a heat pump. Also, another question for you... it's come up that the "One Pedal" feature doesn't actually bring you to a complete stop and you still have to use the brake pedal to fully stop. Is this true?

Never mind, just watched this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqvl8Z8XeTU) and at the 18:30 mark, it shows that the, so called, "One Pedal" drive mode, cuts out at about 20 to 15km/h. So that would make it essentially the same as driving around in B5, as we do now. Do you notice any difference between driving in B5 vs "One Pedal"?

 

[littlescrote]

No system will bring you to a stop, that can only ever be done smoothly and reliably using the physical brakes.

 

[kpetrov]

The new release Outlander PHEV 2022 has a major fail in the Regen braking system. The settings B1 to B5 are available via the steering wheel paddles, BUT, if the battery is above 55% charge, the system STARTS THE PETROL ENGINE to provide braking force rather than returning power to the battery.
Brilliant Regenerative Braking. NOT.
What halfwit thought that was a good idea. MAJOR FAIL MITSUBISHI. How to ruin a good car.
Buyer beware. Stick to the old 2021 model until Mitsubishi fix this major failure.

I don't own 2022 model, but I call that statement uneducated conclusion.
The system can STARTS THE PETROL ENGINE for any other reason but to provide braking force. That is laughable.
First the engine is not connected to the wheels, second the statement "It doesn't happen in 1 pedal mode. Just when you use REGENERATIVE braking via the paddles" tell me you don't have a clue how or what REGENERATIVE braking is at all!!!

 

[IslandLife]

No system will bring you to a stop, that can only ever be done smoothly and reliably using the physical brakes.

Whoa, that a very confident statement for a system that is widely used and any cursory google search would show you otherwise. Many EV's have a true "one-pedal" mode that brings you to a full stop without having to touch the brake pedal. This is the true definition of one pedal driving and I think either Tesla or the Bolt was the first to implement it back in 2016 or 17? For example, the Nissan Leaf's sytem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ydtzCjedw

The Outlander is just calling driving in B5 one pedal driving... same as it ever was. It's not going to stop me from buying the new version this fall... I just find it incredibly stupid to call it a "one pedal" mode when the well established one pedal mode that everyone uses and knows about brings you to a full stop... lol. It really does border on false advertising and could be dangerous. I could see someone coming from driving another EV in one pedal mode for years, getting into an Outlander turning on one pedal mode and promptly rolling through a red light causing a serious accident. I know most people should be able to realize in time that it's not a true one pedal mode and hitting the brakes, but... we all know the kind of drivers we're dealing with out there, haha!

Quick list of EV's that I know of that offer true, to a complete stop, One Pedal driving (there are probably many more):
Audi e tron
Cadillac Lyriq
Hyundai Ioniq 5
Hyundai Kona EV
Kia EV6
Kia Niro
Nissan Leaf
Polestar
Tesla
Volvo XC40
Chevy Bolt

The only PHEV that I know of that offers one-pedal driving is the 2022 Volvo XC60 Recharge... but there may be more.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

The new release Outlander PHEV 2022 has a major fail in the Regen braking system. The settings B1 to B5 are available via the steering wheel paddles, BUT, if the battery is above 55% charge, the system STARTS THE PETROL ENGINE to provide braking force rather than returning power to the battery.
Brilliant Regenerative Braking. NOT.
What halfwit thought that was a good idea. MAJOR FAIL MITSUBISHI. How to ruin a good car.
Buyer beware. Stick to the old 2021 model until Mitsubishi fix this major failure.

I don't own 2022 model, but I call that statement uneducated conclusion.
The system can STARTS THE PETROL ENGINE for any other reason but to provide braking force. That is laughable.
First the engine is not connected to the wheels, second the statement "It doesn't happen in 1 pedal mode. Just when you use REGENERATIVE braking via the paddles" tell me you don't have a clue how or what REGENERATIVE braking is at all!!!

Yes it is clear from yr uneducated guesswork that you dont own a 2022 model. I suggest u take one for a drive, until then keep yr abusive comments to yrself.