How to best protect your drive battery.

[Trex]

As advised to us by Mitsubishi, via the dealer, in response to our question about how to slow the rate of degradation;

[*]Always run the battery down to "empty" before recharging
[*]Always charge to completely full
[*]Never partially charge
[*]See if that helps

I have it on an email from them somewhere.

Yea you showed me that before in my other thread. Not sure I believe it to be from the engineers in Mitsubishi Japan.

 

[Trex]

I think 85% is a bit high ...............

You have to take it into context of why I said it IMO which was "It basically puts the PHEV into a automatic reduced use of the battery mode".

Would you agree using the battery less decreases degradation?

Sure. Putting the voltage at 3.92 V/cell and storing the entire vehicle in a refrigerated garage and never driving it, decreases degradation even further though.

:lol: :lol:

By the time Save mode kicks in, it's doing almost full regen.

This is from a test I did on fuel consumption where you can see the B5 results. Note, this was not pressing the brake pedal. Just using the paddles. This was my PHEV, your could be different.

Here are the results.

Press save button straight at start with full battery. 15 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 15kw

Press Save at 13 bars. 14 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 25kw

Press Save at 11 bars. 12 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times B5 37kw

 

[Trex]

But, as MM are God, I am inclined to believe all they say.

:lol: :lol:

No MM are not God but their engineers are IMO. :lol: Note. I am a design engineer so I am bias.

 

[elm70]

...

Now that is as far as I will go with this TROLL.

Right ... no point to discuss with somebody that is good only on insulting people which have different opinion.

Anyhow ... it is a fact that you did mis-inform people about the battery degradation
You start this thread stating to don't worry about it ... that is in total contrast with the opinion of many other PHEV owners

You were basing your assumptions over your inaccurate tests:

1. 52.5kms Just after buying Phev early April 2014
2. 52.9kms 6ths months later ie October 2014
3. 51.8kms April 2015 Now this test had notable more traffic (some big area championships soccer games) ie stopped at traffic lights more than last 2
4. 53.0kms October 2015
5. 48.2kms January 2017 Battery condition was 86.05% according to EVBatmon.
6. 45.1kms February 2018 Battery condition was 78.68% according to EVBatmon. Geolander 4wd tyres fitted before this test.
7. 38.8kms December 2018 Battery condition was 72.11% according to EVBatmon.

Until December 2018, based on this partial data, you claim that SOH was not impacting much the EV range ... now, from Dec 2018, also from this weak data you can see that the impact is real. Anyhow ... in the above list, the relation between EV range and SOH ... is not proportional and very fuzzy... a sign that these test are quite useless .. since each drive has huge impact on the driving condition, driving style and the SOC before starting the trip (SOC after a battery charge can be between 105 % down to 96%)

Anyhow ... there is no need of any test run ...

The car allows to drive in EV mode as long the car believe there is 30% SOC left (or 25% in some conditions) .. and this is computed by the BMU based on the SOH .... so ... EV range without any test needed it is directly proportional to the SOH

PS: I hope the mod are reacting .... since it is not acceptable to be insulted ... and this is not the first time you openly insult me only for express my opinion !

 

[Trex]

Anyhow ... it is a fact that you did mis-inform people about the battery degradation
You start this thread stating to don't worry about it ... that is in total contrast with the opinion of many other PHEV owners

I started this thread saying I do not worry about it. I will bring it in.

Ok, still seeing some people here worried about degradation of the drive battery and I am not just talking about any particular person. Hell even I think about it as I am at the moment dealing with Mitsubishi Australia to hopefully get mine replaced under warranty. But to me its not a worry just more of a hassle. I have to handle far bigger problems at work in my own business with far bigger costs involved. But I digress.

Another lie TROLL.

You were basing your assumptions over your inaccurate tests:

1. 52.5kms Just after buying Phev early April 2014
2. 52.9kms 6ths months later ie October 2014
3. 51.8kms April 2015 Now this test had notable more traffic (some big area championships soccer games) ie stopped at traffic lights more than last 2
4. 53.0kms October 2015
5. 48.2kms January 2017 Battery condition was 86.05% according to EVBatmon.
6. 45.1kms February 2018 Battery condition was 78.68% according to EVBatmon. Geolander 4wd tyres fitted before this test.
7. 38.8kms December 2018 Battery condition was 72.11% according to EVBatmon.

Until December 2018, based on this partial data, you claim that SOH was not impacting much the EV range ...

December 2018? You could start seeing real world impacts from Jan 2017. :roll: Another lie TROLL.

I tell you what. Stay out of the threads I start and I will stay out of yours.

 

[elm70]

I hope the moderator step in ... it is not acceptable to allow one forum user to openly insult another one !!!!

BTW ... insulting others is a sign of low IQ

Low IQ = poor maths

Assuming 52km = 100% SOH

6. 45.1kms February 2018 Battery condition was 78.68%

45.1km = 87% EV ideal range .. with only 78% SOH ... is much more EV range then expected

7. 38.8kms December 2018 Battery condition was 72.11%

38.8km = 74% EV ideal range ... that it is more in like with the 72% SOC


I don't have to dig your old posts ... you have been always stating to don't worry about SOH and range, etc etc .. and before Dec 2018 you used your little list for state that the SOH in this PHEV was not an issue at all ... PLUS ... blindly promoting the Mitsubishi Outlander

Not only you are insulting who has a different view then yours ... but your view is far away from being objective !

 

[ThudnBlundr]

BTW ... insulting others is a sign of low IQ

Wrong! Or are you saying that Oscar Wilde and Winston Churchill, both of whom were partial to a good put-down, were of low IQ?

Low IQ = poor maths

Wrong again! IQ is not a function of mathematical ability.

You should really get your facts straight before trying (and failing :lol to insult someone

 

[elm70]

BTW ... insulting others is a sign of low IQ

Wrong! Or are you saying that Oscar Wilde and Winston Churchill, both of whom were partial to a good put-down, were of low IQ?

Low IQ = poor maths

Wrong again! IQ is not a function of mathematical ability.

You should really get your facts straight before trying (and failing :lol to insult someone

I have no clue about Oscar or Winston if they did like or they were used to insult people
Nor it there is any prove that these two people had an high IQ ... be a powerful person or a poet does not implies to have high IQ

About IQ and maths ... yes IQ is much more then only maths, but there is no high IQ person which is maths retarded

Anyhow :

Are you saying that is smart to insult other people ?

Are you saying that smart people can be maths retarded ?

BTW: I'm not trying to insult anybody ... I just want remark that is unacceptable that somebody openly insult somebody ... else ... is that ok for you to openly insult other ? is this a way to make any construction conversation ? Moving from the analysis of the fact from "analysis" of the people that disclose facts ?

 

[HHL]

Careful guys... that's how wars start........

 

[Trex]

I hope the moderator step in .............

OMG the LYING TROLL is back for more.

After I have expressly stated:

I tell you what. Stay out of the threads I start and I will stay out of yours.

as a way of diffusing this situation you don't give up. :roll:

I have proven time and time again you are a LYING TROLL so lets see whether I can do it again.

BTW ... insulting others is a sign of low IQ

Well that's another LIE, TROLL. Some of the smartest people I know can insult ********* without them knowing.

Now do want me to go on you LYING TROLL? I suggest you stop digging that hole.

As I have said before stay out of the threads I start and I will stay out of yours.

 

[Trex]

Careful guys... that's how wars start........

Yep with our pens sharpened we will duel at sunrise. :lol:

But seriously HHL what did you think of my suggestions for trying to protect the drive battery. Would you try them?

For instance you could EV around town and then increase your SOC on the highway to help protect the drive battery.

Thoughts?

 

[greendwarf]

Getting back to the title of the thread. I was wondering if use of Regen setting might effect the battery life.

I tend to drive around in B0 so I do a lot of coasting up to traffic lights etc or down gradients only stepping up to B3/B5 or using the brake pedal when eventually stopping.

There are others who leave it in B5 and do one pedal driving using mainly the accelerator to moderate speed. When they lift off to slow down then Regen kicks in and they have to press the accelerator to compensate for this.

My question is whether this later style puts more stress on the battery than my coasting? - we know that it makes very little difference to overall consumption.

 

[Trex]

Getting back to the title of the thread. I was wondering if use of Regen setting might effect the battery life.

I tend to drive around in B0 so I do a lot of coasting up to traffic lights etc or down gradients only stepping up to B3/B5 or using the brake pedal when eventually stopping.

There are others who leave it in B5 and do one pedal driving using mainly the accelerator to moderate speed. When they lift off to slow down then Regen kicks in and they have to press the accelerator to compensate for this.

My question is whether this later style puts more stress on the battery than my coasting? - we know that it makes very little difference to overall consumption.

Hello Mr greendwarf Sir,

I think it is something we all can agree on is the less we use our battery the better so the more we coast up to the lights the better IMO.

Any snow on the Alps over there? Wee bit warm here lately.

 

[HHL]

Careful guys... that's how wars start........

Yep with our pens sharpened we will duel at sunrise. :lol:

But seriously HHL what did you think of my suggestions for trying to protect the drive battery. Would you try them?

For instance you could EV around town and then increase your SOC on the highway to help protect the drive battery.

Thoughts?

Well, I used to fiddle with the paddles and check the SOH every 35 seconds using EVbatmon and later the Dog thingy, but at the end of the day, I have decided it is what it is and just drive and charge at random. I have 6Kw of solar power on my roof so, basically, it runs for free as I very rarely drive beyond the EV range, which, incidentally has not really changed much as far as I can tell. My usual "calibrated" run is from here to the airport which is a 34km one way run. The best I have ever done is go there and on the way back the engine first started when I came out on the northern side of the harbour tunnel. That's probably mid 40's km total. I did another test a few weeks ago and blow me down, it did 48km, and that was an initial 150m change in elevation from Dee Why to Frenchs Forest and I came back the long way via Mona Vale. That surprised me, as EVbatmon reports 84.4% SOH. My wife took it to Katoomba last month and I said to her to press the save button when the battery indicates about half. The next day when she drove back I said not to worry, just drive it and when she arrived home the fuel consumption showed something ridiculous like 4l/100km, obviously the battery must have been about half when she started and then it charged a fair bit more coming down the mountains. She did select B5 initially but when down on the flat she flicks it back to the default, she does not like the feel of B5. I on the other hand select B5 the first time I have to slow down on a drive and just leave it there. So, basically I don't think too much about it any more, but my preference the few times we go on longer drives or when I know we going to drive much beyond the range of the battery, I press "save" when the battery shows about half and leave it there. I figure there is no point in cycling the battery fully in that scenario. Also, leaving it in the higher "b" settings when running on cruise control brakes it nicely going downhill, my car does not have adaptive CC. So, there you have it. Still like the car a lot, but I do have a "proper" fourby for towing my caravan when we do big loops like going to "The Rock".

 

[Trex]

Well, I used to fiddle with the paddles and check the SOH every 35 seconds using EVbatmon and later the Dog thingy, but at the end of the day, I have decided it is what it is and just drive and charge at random.

Yea, you sound like me. I hardly ever use those apps now but I will run the Torque Pro app on long trips where I have a special page showing just some basic stuff like RPM, water temp and Instantaneous fuel consumption. I like having a way of showing trends, in water temp especially. I know we have a light for showing when we have have problem with the coolant system but I like a proper gauge like the "old days" for being prewarned of possible problems. With Torque Pro you can set up some really cool or spiffy gauges.

I have 6Kw of solar power on my roof so, basically, it runs for free as I very rarely drive beyond the EV range, which, incidentally has not really changed much as far as I can tell. My usual "calibrated" run is from here to the airport which is a 34km one way run. The best I have ever done is go there and on the way back the engine first started when I came out on the northern side of the harbour tunnel. That's probably mid 40's km total. I did another test a few weeks ago and blow me down, it did 48km, and that was an initial 150m change in elevation from Dee Why to Frenchs Forest and I came back the long way via Mona Vale. That surprised me, as EVbatmon reports 84.4% SOH. My wife took it to Katoomba last month and I said to her to press the save button when the battery indicates about half. The next day when she drove back I said not to worry, just drive it and when she arrived home the fuel consumption showed something ridiculous like 4l/100km, obviously the battery must have been about half when she started and then it charged a fair bit more coming down the mountains. She did select B5 initially but when down on the flat she flicks it back to the default, she does not like the feel of B5. I on the other hand select B5 the first time I have to slow down on a drive and just leave it there. So, basically I don't think too much about it any more, but my preference the few times we go on longer drives or when I know we going to drive much beyond the range of the battery, I press "save" when the battery shows about half and leave it there. I figure there is no point in cycling the battery fully in that scenario. Also, leaving it in the higher "b" settings when running on cruise control brakes it nicely going downhill, my car does not have adaptive CC. So, there you have it. Still like the car a lot, but I do have a "proper" fourby for towing my caravan when we do big loops like going to "The Rock".

4l/100km Cannot complain about that.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Hah, I don't think I can ever go back to not messing around with the paddles constantly while driving. Even if I were told its achieving nothing! It's in my head now after only a few months of ownership.

I get in my wife's little car and my hands are tapping away at paddles that aren't even there!

 

[elm70]

I hope the moderator step in .............

OMG the LYING TROLL is back for more.

After I have expressly stated:

I tell you what. Stay out of the threads I start and I will stay out of yours.

as a way of diffusing this situation you don't give up. :roll:

I have proven time and time again you are a LYING TROLL so lets see whether I can do it again.

BTW ... insulting others is a sign of low IQ

Well that's another LIE, TROLL. Some of the smartest people I know can insult ********* without them knowing.

Now do want me to go on you LYING TROLL? I suggest you stop digging that hole.

As I have said before stay out of the threads I start and I will stay out of yours.

Do you know the difference between lying and express a point of view ?

Statistically the people that insults other are not the smart one, normally are the dummy ********* that love to insult others

So ...who is lying here ... who can't even understand a different point of view .. who can't even argue with other without insulting the other person ?

This is a free forum, and I have the right to comment and reply to open insult ... what it should not be allowed is to insult other .. just because express a different opinion

Define somebody a TROLL .. is the worst insult that can be used on the net ... totally unacceptable !

 

[maby]

....

I hope maby does not mind me mentioning him here and hope he will get involved in this discussion. As well as others of course.

...

Regards Trex.

I certainly don't mind - it is a topic that is close to my heart. I've holding back because this thread - which should be of interest to all of us - was in danger of descending into abuse - let's try to keep it reasonably civil, all!

It's no secret that my approach to the PHEV has always been rather different to that of most owners that contribute here and I hope that Trex is right in his suggestion that my battery is likely to last longer than many. I don't have the equipment to measure the health of the battery pack, but intuitively it would seem that limiting its usage would increase its life expectancy. The 20-odd mile realistic EV range of the PHEV is too short to have any siginficant impact on my running costs or carbon footprint, so I have tried to manage its use in order to stretch life expectancy. I still maintain that Mitsubishi should have recognised that many PHEVs were going to be used for long trips, well beyond the EV range, from time to time and had included a mode that manages battery charge levels to reduce battery degradation and ensure that the car always has a decent reserve of electrical drive for hill climbing, motorway acceleration etc. We implement this ourselves by juggling the Save and Charge buttons, but that simply should not be necessary.

It is clearly possible - my old Prius is now about 15 years old with 150,000 miles on the clock and working fine for my son who took it on several years ago as a temporary solution after he crunched his car. It has had no maintanance to the hybrid sub-system since it was delivered from the factory. I do recognise that the Prius uses different battery technology to the Outlander, but that does not excuse Mitsubishi - if they can't get a decent life expectancy out of the battery pack, they should not have released the vehicle! I probably should have bought a Lexus RX-4nnh but the UK government had removed all the incentives for that by the time we gave up the Prius.

 

[jaapv]

It might cause Mitsubishi some reputation damage, irrespective of technical arguments. They would be wise to implement a low-cost battery refurbishment/replacement program.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Getting back to the title of the thread. I was wondering if use of Regen setting might effect the battery life.

I tend to drive around in B0 so I do a lot of coasting up to traffic lights etc or down gradients only stepping up to B3/B5 or using the brake pedal when eventually stopping.

There are others who leave it in B5 and do one pedal driving using mainly the accelerator to moderate speed. When they lift off to slow down then Regen kicks in and they have to press the accelerator to compensate for this.

My question is whether this later style puts more stress on the battery than my coasting? - we know that it makes very little difference to overall consumption.

I only slow down in B5 when I want to, using the accelerator to moderate the speed at which I coast or slow down. I'm not clear why you think that coasting in B5 with your foot on the accelerator pedal should be any different to coasting in B0 with your foot off the accelerator. In both cases, coasting will have zero power going to and from the battery, but in B5 you also have more control if you wish to slow.