WARNING: Phev 2022 Regen Braking Hopeless

[NZPHEV2022]

The new release Outlander PHEV 2022 has a major fail in the Regen braking system. The settings B1 to B5 are available via the steering wheel paddles, BUT, if the battery is above 55% charge, the system STARTS THE PETROL ENGINE to provide braking force rather than returning power to the battery.
Brilliant Regenerative Braking. NOT.
What halfwit thought that was a good idea. MAJOR FAIL MITSUBISHI. How to ruin a good car.
Buyer beware. Stick to the old 2021 model until Mitsubishi fix this major failure.

 

[Daixiwen]

It also starts the petrol engine when you use the turn signals, so try and drive in a straight line.

 

[jaapv]

It also starts the petrol engine when you use the turn signals, so try and drive in a straight line.

:lol: :lol: I am still trying to figure out how starting the engine and adding energy to the drive train "instead of returning energy to the battery :?: " could possible create a braking effect. It probably involves the creation of antimatter... :ugeek:

 

[littlescrote]

Is it really INSTEAD of putting energy to the battery, or as well as to supplement the retardation? And is it fuelling the ICE, or just connecting it mechanically to act as an air pump brake?

 

[Daixiwen]

Okay, more seriously, the claim just doesn't make any sense at all.
It is true that if the battery level is too high, regenerative breaking is limited. This is due to the way charging lithium batteries is done. The voltage needs to be limited to the maximum the cells can take, so if the voltage is already high there isn't high voltage margin available and the charger has to limit the charging power.
But if the system can't regen enough when you want to brake, just.... you know... use the brakes. They are meant for that.

Adding more energy to the system won't make it break better. You need to dissipate energy. At low speeds (unde 60 kph I think?) the petrol engine can't be mechanically coupled to the wheels so it can't provide any breaking power either. The brakes on the other hand are always available.

 

[greendwarf]

Or perhaps this is just a spam spoiler from a rival manufacturer. The OP registered just to tell us this - so not an existing PHEV driver nor a newbie looking for advice and no follow up . I smell a rat! :idea:

Perhaps Admin should consider removing the post and blocking the poster. :twisted:

 

[littlescrote]

At low speeds (unde 60 kph I think?) the petrol engine can't be mechanically coupled to the wheels so it can't provide any breaking power either. The brakes on the other hand are always available.

Aside from your odd usage of break/brake, I would query this point. When accelerating or holding road speed the engine can't be mechanically coupled to the wheels as the engine speed is too low to generate useful power - that constraint need not apply when decelerating. The mechanical coupling could be brought in and the engine acting as an air pump against a closed throttle would have a significant retardation effect (like an exhaust brake on an HGV) so could be managed to mimic the effect of regenerative braking when the battery capacity is not available, rather than just coast along which can be unexpected. Older models don't do that for whatever reason (possibly due to lubrication issues) but the new model may be designed to be able to do so.

 

[jaapv]

And wear down the clutch by making it act like a brake pad? I don't think so.

 

[mikepotts64]

The new release Outlander PHEV 2022 has a major fail in the Regen braking system. The settings B1 to B5 are available via the steering wheel paddles, BUT, if the battery is above 55% charge, the system STARTS THE PETROL ENGINE to provide braking force rather than returning power to the battery.
Brilliant Regenerative Braking. NOT.
What halfwit thought that was a good idea. MAJOR FAIL MITSUBISHI. How to ruin a good car.
Buyer beware. Stick to the old 2021 model until Mitsubishi fix this major failure.

I have the same observation on my 2021 GSR. It has only happened since the recent 15,000km service.
Suspect a firmware upgrade. I prefer the '1 pedal' operation of the accelerator with B5 as the default RB setting, even though it doesn't bring me to a stop.

 

[tfv43]

It's all about one-pedal-drive. When the battery can't cope with the energy from retarding, the car has to "waste" the energy elsewhere. That could be done by feeding electricity to the generator, making og act like an electrical motor driving the ICE, (just like it does when starting the ICE), No fuel used, ICE used as an "airbrake" only.

Can we do that? "Yes we can!"
Is it a good idea to do that? "Hell No!"

Just for the sake of one-pedal-driving.

 

[Daixiwen]

Aside from your odd usage of break/brake

Sorry for the typo. Glad you understood my point anyway

When accelerating or holding road speed the engine can't be mechanically coupled to the wheels as the engine speed is too low to generate useful power - that constraint need not apply when decelerating. The mechanical coupling could be brought in and the engine acting as an air pump against a closed throttle would have a significant retardation effect (like an exhaust brake on an HGV) so could be managed to mimic the effect of regenerative braking when the battery capacity is not available, rather than just coast along which can be unexpected. Older models don't do that for whatever reason (possibly due to lubrication issues) but the new model may be designed to be able to do so.

What would be the advantage though? The car is already able to control the brakes itself and could do it in 1-pedal driving if regen is not available. Besides I don't know how robust the clutch is, but usually before coupling the petrol engine to the wheels, the car revs it to the correct speed as to reduce the wear when engaging. This means it would need to start the petrol engine, set it at the correct speed, engage the clutch, and then turn off the engine. It doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

[tfv43]

This means it would need to start the petrol engine, set it at the correct speed, engage the clutch, and then turn off the engine. It doesn't sound like a good idea.

No need to start the ICE, the generator can easily bring the ICE up to speed.

But brakes are more efficient, and cheaper when worn out.

 

[Daixiwen]

Oh yes that's a good point. And the generator could even be powered from the electric motors, providing some braking power if the battery is full.
It's still a very complicated way of avoiding using the brakes though.

 

[IslandLife]

Other item to note... if this is true and is a function of the "one-pedal driving" system. There a button to turn one-pedal driving off and on. So if you want to go use the "normal" system you can. Also... in the test drives I've seen, I've not seen anyone mention the engine starting during one-pedal driving...

 

[mikepotts64]

I use one pedal driving when I can. The engine on is more likely a factor of power drain for climate aircon cooling /heating.
Thankfully I live in a mild climate and can get by with leaving these off most of the time. Reduces fuel/battery consumption by at least 25% on my average driving.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

Or perhaps this is just a spam spoiler from a rival manufacturer. The OP registered just to tell us this - so not an existing PHEV driver nor a newbie looking for advice and no follow up . I smell a rat! :idea:

Perhaps Admin should consider removing the post and blocking the poster. :twisted:

No, I own one. Just trying to make people aware of this change. Wouldnt have bought it if I had known it had changed this much. I had a 2015 PHEV before this new one. Driven PHEV for 5 years now.
Perhaps greendwarf should take one for a test drive, with a battery above 60% charge and see for himself, or maybe he works for Mitsi, trying to discredit reports of what is a major change.
Sorry to disappoint yr conspiracy theory.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

It's all about one-pedal-drive. When the battery can't cope with the energy from retarding, the car has to "waste" the energy elsewhere. That could be done by feeding electricity to the generator, making og act like an electrical motor driving the ICE, (just like it does when starting the ICE), No fuel used, ICE used as an "airbrake" only.

Can we do that? "Yes we can!"
Is it a good idea to do that? "Hell No!"

Just for the sake of one-pedal-driving.

Exactly. It seems the extra energy the battery cant take at high charge levels, is diverted to the generator in reverse driving the ICE for air pump braking. Mitsi have confirmed to my dealer it is intentional to provide more consistant braking force when using B1 to 5.
Stupid idea. I want max energy to battery when I select regen braking, and if that doesnt slow it enough, then I use the brakes.
Mitsi solution, use the new Intelligent 1 pedal feature.

 

[NZPHEV2022]

Other item to note... if this is true and is a function of the "one-pedal driving" system. There a button to turn one-pedal driving off and on. So if you want to go use the "normal" system you can. Also... in the test drives I've seen, I've not seen anyone mention the engine starting during one-pedal driving...

No it occurs without 1 pedal driving on.

It only occurs when u use B 3, 4 or 5 for regen braking.
1 pedal driving stops this happening and is Mitsis solution to the engine start problem, just use intelligent 1 pedal mode.
Big change from the previous models.
Just be aware it happens. If you want to test drive make sure battery is 60% or higher. If yr ok with this change after seeing it, then get one. Lots of improvements in the new model, but to me this change is a big fail. But make up yr own mind, just be aware it is happening.

 

[IslandLife]

Oh wow... I guess they're really trying to limit battery degradation. I noticed in my 2018 after a specific service (maybe mid 2021 or so?) a software update limited my regen capability quite a bit. I noticed it mostly because in the winter I drive to my local ski every weekend and the reduction in regen coming down the mountain was quite obvious.

This leads me to believe that Mitsubishi thinks pushing to much energy into the battery at medium to high SOC can hurt the battery over time.

But what confuses me... is why start the engine?? The thing has brakes for fuck sakes! Just reduce regen and let me use the brakes... don't make me use gas. That is quite a brain dead solution if you ask me.

I guess the saving grace is that this IS what they did with the "one pedal driving" feature. Sounds like I'll be test driving when mine comes in this fall. My current 2022 is giving me about 55kms of EV range which is more than enough for our daily driving and commuting. Currently sitting at a lifetime (only four months in) of 1.5 l / 100 kms (157 mpg). I mostly wanted to get into the 2023 to help bring down our gas use during road trips. But I may wait until they address this... if they do?

What also pisses me off a little... is why have none of the early reviews/tests noticed or talked about this??!!

 

[DibbyDibbyDJ]

Yes it is to stop battery degredation. Alongside the new AC system to help keep battery temperatures down, and the new watercooled exhaust manifold built in to the cylinder head, to help warm the systems up to normal operating temperature more efficiently.