The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

[Trex]

I've read this a couple of times and I must admit it's a bit hard to grasp.

Could you simplify this into:
1. When to use EV mode?
2. When to use Charge mode?
3. When to use Save mode?
4. How to drive on the Highway?

Ok I will try.

IMO:
1. Around town speeds in series mode as much as possible.
2. At highway speeds in parallel mode.
3. At highway speeds in parallel mode.
4. As I have written above.

Now for my PHEV parallel mode starts at approx 70kph if I don't smash the accelerator too hard (up till approx 120kph will drop back to or stay in series mode if I smash the accelerator too hard) but parallel mode drops out at approx 65kph or less to series mode (a little bit of hysteresis added to prevent unwanted rapid mode switching I think).

Look at it this way. If you must use fuel for a trip try to only use it in parallel mode IMO where the petrol motor is mechanically engaged to the front axle via a clutch which it is normally at highway speeds from my experience.

Is that as clear as mud? :lol:

Regards Trex.

That is exactly what I needed! Thanks! Waiting for My 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV GT to arrive from Canada.

Your welcome.

But I should have said :

IMO:
1. Around town speeds ,where the PHEV would be in series mode if the petrol motor was running, as much as possible.
2. At highway speeds where the PHEV would be in parallel mode if the petrol motor was running .
3. At highway speeds where the PHEV would be in parallel mode if the petrol motor was running .
4. As I have written above.

But I hope you understood what I meant.

 

[mikepotts64]

The posted graph showing diff between torque needed to drive and max torque is interesting!

I am curious, what happens if I towed 6000 pound boat for 40 minutes? How does the graph look like? Would it exceed the max torque generation?
Would the torque/power generation system be able to cope and pull it without depleting faster than it is draining?

I am contemplating a replacement car to my current small Gas car, and am researching whether something like 19` GT is a good choice, in Canada so cold weather about half the year.

I have towed a 1500kg 8m long caravan for 300 km on motorway/second grade highway/gravel road at speeds of 80-90km/hour the battery depletes faster than the generator can produce, so I stopped for 3 x 20 minute intervals on charge to maintain battery above 50%. (I didn't want to run out of power in a bad location for obstructing traffic).

This is where a PHEV shines over the other EV variants, no range anxiety. 10lt/100km consumption for the trip = to my 130kw Diesel VW Tiguan pulling the same rig. When I'm not towing on my daily drive 0lt/100km.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bjHNR3GAJE2gTrsB9

 

[brian0125]

Sorry, I don't understand this. I always charge my battery at night. Usually full each morning. Drive around town and gas engine rarely comes on. I run with battery regen level B2 as my dealer told me that the gas engine will come on periodically if I set it to B3 - B5. Not sure why that would be. But tested it and sure enough, gas engine comes on periodically at B3. BTW I drive very economically, no jackrabbit starts and coast up to most lights and down hills.

 

[littlescrote]

Sorry, I don't understand this. I always charge my battery at night. Usually full each morning. Drive around town and gas engine rarely comes on. I run with battery regen level B2 as my dealer told me that the gas engine will come on periodically if I set it to B3 - B5. Not sure why that would be. But tested it and sure enough, gas engine comes on periodically at B3. BTW I drive very economically, no jackrabbit starts and coast up to most lights and down hills.

2023 Model Year?

Must be, as that has different software to make regen more consistent across B modes regardless of battery charge level by using the motors to turn the generator to turn the engine as an air pump against a closed throttle.

Older models don't do that, and when your battery is full you have no slowing effect when releasing the accelerator which can be disconcerting at best, and dangerous at worst (if you're an inattentive driver and/or driving stupidly).

 

[kpetrov]

Also like a safety - backup feature on long steep descents.
On older model and full battery one will rely only on mechanical brakes on 2023 model the engine braking will kick-in.

 

[Youngfeller]

Just bought our new 2023 in Edmonton and drove to Kelowna the next day about 1000kms. Started with a full battery and fuel tank. After the battery got about 1/2 I switched to save mode and when it was empty I intermittently put it on charge mode, speed was around 120 kms. Got horrible mileage around 9 litres per hundred Kms . Filled up at around 400 kms wasn’t empty. So the next tank i thought i would let mits control the car.now at this piont the battery was drained. Put it in eco mode and normal mode for driving got 6.8 litres per hundered.it would seem to let the car do what it required

 

[kpetrov]

Just bought our new 2023 in Edmonton and drove to Kelowna the next day about 1000kms. Started with a full battery and fuel tank. After the battery got about 1/2 I switched to save mode and when it was empty I intermittently put it on charge mode, speed was around 120 kms. Got horrible mileage around 9 litres per hundred Kms . Filled up at around 400 kms wasn’t empty. So the next tank i thought i would let mits control the car.now at this piont the battery was drained. Put it in eco mode and normal mode for driving got 6.8 litres per hundered.it would seem to let the car do what it required

You didn't measure the consumption correctly. In charge mode one should measure the consumption after the accumulated charge has been used, or you have an instant fuel consumption in variable state.

 

[Youngfeller]

Actually yes i did. I took the i took the litres and fuel and worked out the economy . What i am trying to say is let the car figure out what it wants to do. It is way smarter than we think we are.

 

[kpetrov]

Actually yes i did. I took the i took the litres and fuel and worked out the economy . What i am trying to say is let the car figure out what it wants to do. It is way smarter than we think we are.

Beside litters and fuel which is one there is a battery as well and the engine is dumping energy there that need to be added to the equation.

 

[Youngfeller]

The statement was not but the battery. It was about what the mileage would be as if it was operating as a Hybrid which is what i traded in. On long trips after you deplete the battery is is not part of any equation unless you are going to stop and charge it Everyone keeps talking about how they get lousy mileage on long trips when you have no battery. I traded in a 2021 venza which which goes about 5.9 litre per hundered. The outlander does not do as well but anything under 7 litres per hundered i would find quite acceptable

 

[kpetrov]

The statement was not but the battery. It was about what the mileage would be as if it was operating as a Hybrid which is what i traded in. On long trips after you deplete the battery is is not part of any equation unless you are going to stop and charge it Everyone keeps talking about how they get lousy mileage on long trips when you have no battery. I traded in a 2021 venza which which goes about 5.9 litre per hundered. The outlander does not do as well but anything under 7 litres per hundered i would find quite acceptable

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
You have said before that in Save and Charge you are getting higher consumption compared to Normal + ECO and I counter by saying that the consumption was not measured correctly.
Exactly because it is hybrid one should always put the battery in the equation when consumption calculations are made.
Operating in Save and Charge is a part of a hybrid cycle although manually induced.
When you drive in Normal the battery is always close to depleted state and consumption calculations are close to the reality without any further calculations needed. When in Charge or Save one still has a lot of energy stored in the battery which energy should be put in the equation cause it is not there when in Normal and one cannot compare the consumption just like that.

 

[Youngfeller]

O so guess so I didn’t drive 515 kms put in 41 litres of fuel on a variety of save and charge mode so when i came in to towns it would likely be on electric to to try it save fuel. And then for the second test drove 644 kms put in 41 litres of fuel on just straight economy and let the car do what it does best to see the difference. It seems pretty straight forward to me

 

[Hasenphever]

The outlander PHEV is not great on the highway due to the lack of a transmission that optimizes gear ratios. However, it more than makes up for the meh highway fuel economy with the stellar urban fuel economy.

 

[littlescrote]

I'd say a bigger hindrance to lack of good highway consumption is the rolling resistance and aerodynamics. Not particularly great, and not optimised over the ICE variant in any way (in fact the exhaust routing and underslung battery may be worse).

 

[kpetrov]

I don't feel the consumption is so bad on the highway. 6L-7L / 100km is normal for a heavy SUV.

 

[mellobob]

I don't feel the consumption is so bad on the highway. 6L-7L / 100km is normal for a heavy SUV.

Yes, I think some of the comparisons skip over the fact that we have 2000+kg box going down the highway here.

 

[littlescrote]

Weight is largely irrelevant to fuel consumption (over flat terrain, anyway)

 

[Lon12]

It's too bad most folks like the Hummer brick/box look so much. Costs us a lot of efficiency on the highway.

 

[roussir]

Weight is largely irrelevant to fuel consumption (over flat terrain, anyway)

Rolling resistance is proportional to weight. Not sure how big it is, but it is direct loss.

 

[phevGoBzzzzzz]

O so guess so I didn’t drive 515 kms put in 41 litres of fuel on a variety of save and charge mode so when i came in to towns it would likely be on electric to to try it save fuel. And then for the second test drove 644 kms put in 41 litres of fuel on just straight economy and let the car do what it does best to see the difference. It seems pretty straight forward to me

The point Youngfeller was trying to make is that by using "charge" mode you burnt a bunch of gas to generate electricity, which you then stored in the battery (rather than converted into forward motion).

If you didn't end your test by driving the battery down to zero, your calculated fuel consumption is overstated since you burned that much fuel to drive 515km AND charge your battery.