The fuel consumption of the PHEV and how I decrease it.

[user 3575]

I think I will stick to ThudnBlundr post he seems to no what he is talking about.

 

[Sharkins]

@ oscar
Don't forget to take into account that going one way, your journey may have been a bit uphill and down on the return....
https://goldenslot.gclub-casino.com/goldfish/

yes, a typical newbie mistake)

 

[user 5728]

Newly registered but reading for quite a while, I want to say that I have learned a lot from these fuel consumption exploratory and explanatory threads Trex started of. Many thanks for that!

I'm driving my PHEV since March 2020. Meanwhile, I know my regular road ways quite well and can end up routes with an empty SOC reaching garage doors. As we live in lower hills, I have also made experiences on SOC behaviour on climbs and Regen on downs.

Especially on mid length routes where it requires considering the ICU supporting the SOC capacity, I can confirm the fuel numbers reported here at somewhere around 7.2 l/100km and less. Long term data shows that I'm effectively driving 50:50 electric vs. fuel over all. Average fuel consumption in the display shows about 3.5 l/100km. The number I can't believe really. What I can say is that a frequent mixed route of about 90 km ends up at under 6 l/100km in winter times and even below 5l in summer if I recall correctly. Cost logs show that electric driving last year was about half the cost of fuel.

So what am I doing to achieve this? I'm kind of orchestrating Save, Charge, Sport, EV and normal modes. When it became cold late autumn, I began to start with the Sport mode on 4WD to have the engine run and support the heating right from the beginning whilst consuming energy from the SOC. After a while switch to EV mode to prevent serial mode in villages. Out of villages, either use Sport again or switch to Safe or Charge for parallel mode. The latter depends on the strategy of either keeping the SOC level or accumulate to bridge upcoming serial mode distances. All with the focus of ending up with an empty SOC at door steps.

After playing with the B modes at the beginning, I ended up driving B0 most of the time and flexibly use Regen on a finger tip where required. B0 is just relaxing for foot and leg.

This might look like quite a job and hassle. Being used of driving hand geared cars for centuries, its rather fun experimenting while it developed a lot of routine over months. So, I'm not thinking a lot about it really.

 

[kpetrov]

...This might look like quite a job and hassle. Being used of driving hand geared cars for centuries, its rather fun experimenting while it developed a lot of routine over months. So, I'm not thinking a lot about it really.

Some people are wired to relax and don't care about those stuff some to push it, experiment, do it the optimal way and even get a pleasure from it.
I'm ok with both up to the point when somebody suggest - why you didn't bought an BEV. :twisted:

 

[user 5728]

I'm ok with both up to the point when somebody suggest - why you didn't bought an BEV. :twisted:

An Outlander BEV would be just right!

Just today I have been driving the fore mentioned mixed route again. Temperatures are up to 8•C and fuel was down to 4.6 l/100km on winter tires. Nothing to bother.

 

[Smurali]

How can I force my vehicle to run in parallel hybrid mode runnig in the highway. I find series hybrid mode to be not very good in highway conditions

 

[ChrisMiller]

How can I force my vehicle to run in parallel hybrid mode runnig in the highway. I find series hybrid mode to be not very good in highway conditions

You can't really 'force' the car between serial and parallel mode. Because parallel is (generally speaking) more efficient, the electronics typically select parallel mode once speed exceeds ~45mph/70kph. The main exception is if you're demanding high levels of power below speeds of 80mph/130kph, when there's more power available in serial mode.

 

[Smurali]

How can I force my vehicle to run in parallel hybrid mode runnig in the highway. I find series hybrid mode to be not very good in highway conditions

You can't really 'force' the car between serial and parallel mode. Because parallel is (generally speaking) more efficient, the electronics typically select parallel mode once speed exceeds ~45mph/70kph. The main exception is if you're demanding high levels of power below speeds of 80mph/130kph, when there's more power available in serial mode.

Well the reason why I asked was...suppose I want to go for a 200 km drive. I start with a full battery and rather than select save right away..would it make more sense to deplete a bit of battery first until i have around 3 bars left and then hit save - this way parallel mode kicks in at speeds of 110 km/hour.
I went for a long drive, hit save with a full battery- after it was below 80 %, the generator just kept driving the vehicle(Series Hybrid Mode) even at highway speeds. This caused my fuel economy to look as if I was driving a tank

 

[ThudnBlundr]

I've found that it stays in Series mode even above 40mph if the battery is cold. I do a 15-mile journey fairly regularly, and Parallel mode doesn't kick in for quite a while if it's near freezing. It's fine in summer.

 

[kpetrov]

Same here. Colder it is longer it takes for parallel to kick in.

 

[user 5728]

Obviously the same over here. My observation is that for safety reasons to the engine, it runs in kind of stand-by mode for a few minutes at the beginning to heat up material and fluids before tieing it on to the wheels. Then it increases power and works as expected.

We were down -10°C these days. The whole car had been cooled down for about two days. I started with the ICU from the beginning to take the advantage of the ICU warms heating up the car right from the beginning rather than burning epower for that. Again, it started with a slowed down running engine, obviously not involved in driving the vehicle at all. As the bar in the display wasn't moving in effect to the foot pedal push. After a few minutes it seemed having warmed up and took over control. Effect could be seen in the SOC having lost one bar in the display by then. It, then, even took another few minutes before it activated parallel mode within the defined speed range.

The route planned was longer than SOC reach. It would have eaten up the SOC along the way. I ended up with an empty SOC and 6.5 l/100km. That's 2 litres more than on fair mid temperatures. It was just right to start with the ICU right from the beginning. I can't tell if it heats up the batteries in the background too to achieve better performance.

My experience is that the car does it really well considering conditions. A very well thought out system overall.

 

[msmatt]

[How can I force my vehicle to run in parallel hybrid mode runnig in the highway. I find series hybrid mode to be not very good in highway conditions]

As long as it's not too cold and the battery is not fully charged, putting it in Charge Mode usually makes it switch to parallel mode. I do that going up hills on the highway since it keeps the ICE from revving too high. It doesn't actually charge much uphill as most of the ICE power goes to maintain speed. Then, Normal mode downhill, and Save Mode on the level.

 

[Carmageddon]

The posted graph showing diff between torque needed to drive and max torque is interesting!

I am curious, what happens if I towed 6000 pound boat for 40 minutes? How does the graph look like? Would it exceed the max torque generation?
Would the torque/power generation system be able to cope and pull it without depleting faster than it is draining?

I am contemplating a replacement car to my current small Gas car, and am researching whether something like 19` GT is a good choice, in Canada so cold weather about half the year.

 

[user 5728]

Picking this thread up again since I had made experiences playing with Save mode to charge the SOC. This summer, I went on route on the motorway. The route was mixed flat and hills for about 250 km. I used to drive in Save mode flat at the beginning with a 40% SOC hitting the motorway. In the hills parts, downhill, I switched over to rolling downhill in EV in order to recoup energy. Down, I switched back to Save. After a few steep hills, the SOC was up to 60% and still driving Save mode for the rest of the route. The won energy was thankfully taken EV driving the way home off the motorway to end up with an empty SOC.

On another long distance drive I found myself with an empty SOC. On this way, again I went on in the Save mode altough the SOC was empty. After a while the SOC was loaded to the limit and the ICU was switched off. Immediately, I switched on EV and back to Save. This had the ICU restart immediately until it reached another upper limit again. Toggling to EV and back to Save again a few times had the SOC load up to 50% load. I have practiced this strategy a few times on long drives with the same effect. I could load the SOC with a EV-Save toggling strategy rather than flat using Charge. The advantage with this manual charging is that the fuel consumption is significantly lower than in Charge mode. The speed where this strategy works great is between 100 - 120 km/h. At around 100 km/h the system straight switches on the ICU when choosing Save.

Although, this seem being two strategies, it's actually one and the same. The idea is to reset the Save level with any switch to EV and increase to a new level when switching back into Safe. Having reset the Save level, step wise the SOC loads up. Surprisingly, this strategy even works from the very low one bar SOC level.

 

[nrayanov]

Hi,

As a follow on to my thread "Do not be scared of using that charge button" see http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3430 I was asked a few times about using the technique I brought up of using the Charge Button to avoid series mode later in town or cities. I wish to discuss this here.

Now I will say this right now, I cannot come up with a strict set of rules for everyone's trips in the PHEV. But I can give you some guidelines that work for me. I hope they work for you too IF you want to try them.

Now I will first bring in another graph or as I call them "pretty pictures" :lol:



Now please read the 4th paragraph where it starts "When the drive battery SOC (State Of Charge).................

Here it actually tells us about what we were talking about in the charge button thread of having a lightly loaded petrol motor and charging up the drive battery.

It also talks about that blue oval area of the graph being the most efficient area of fuel consumption for driving the PHEV. ie 65 to 120kph. This is also a speed where the PHEV will MOSTLY travel in Parallel mode and also WHEN the petrol motor stops the PHEV goes into EV mode.

Now knowing everything that Mitsubishi have shown with their graphs and what they say above we should IMO avoid series mode by being in EV mode below 65kph as much as possible and my own fuel consumption figures back that up.

But that is not all I do. I totally avoid driving around with a full drive battery.

This is from a thread I wrote some years ago:

Hi folks,

This will be the last test I will do for awhile. I hope it helps everyone.

I picked the flattest area around here ( and it is very flat across the river valley here) on the dual lane freeway (in each direction) that runs past our small city. It is made up of approx. 12kms of 100kph zone and 10km of 110kph zone. I picked that stretch for its easy turn around at each end as well as being flat.

So the test consisted of driving in one direction then the other followed by a quick turnaround at each end. Traffic was light. I sat on 105kph . I used cruise control the whole time except at each end when I was turning around.

Now this is the same as I did the other night but more scientifically ie I ran both directions fully before taking measurements to allow for any wind or elevation changes. I have not, I repeat not done that before.

Here are the results.

Press save button straight at start with full battery. 15 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 15kw

Press Save at 13 bars. 14 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 25kw

Press Save at 11 bars. 12 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times B5 37kw

Press Save at 8 bars. 9 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 7 bars. 8 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 6 bars. 7 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 4 bars. 5 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

At 1 bars (normal mode). 1 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

Note No AC or heater on.

Note The B5 amounts are Regen that I could get at the end of the runs with the paddles set to B5 when turning around.

Note Where I said the petrol motor never stopped it only stopped at each end of the run where I turned around.

Note Where the Petrol motor stopped I read it at the same point of the hybrid cycle.

Note I could not do this test more scientifically without putting it on a dyno.

Note I have just lost 6 hrs out of my life.

Note There are no more Notes. :lol:

Regards Trex.

Now as can be seen from above, fuel savings can be made by not driving around with a full battery and because I live close to the freeway on ramp I actually drop some of the drive battery charge on the freeway at speed to get down to at least 11 bars (out of 16) on the MMCS display to get the biggest drop in fuel consumption (and the highest regen as seen above) and will charge it back up before getting to the next town to avoid series mode.

The figure I always remember is at 100-110kph it takes my PHEV a 1/2 hour to charge the drive battery back up to 1/2 a charge ie 50%. That tells me when I need to push the charge button before getting to the next town.

I hope I explained it well enough.

Whether you can use these tips on your trips away from the grid I will leave up to you.

Ask those questions if you do not understand and I will try to explain it better.

Regards Trex.

I've read this a couple of times and I must admit it's a bit hard to grasp.

Could you simplify this into:
1. When to use EV mode?
2. When to use Charge mode?
3. When to use Save mode?
4. How to drive on the Highway?

 

[littlescrote]

You can't simplify it as it depends on each journey. If you understand it, you have to make your own decision based on what you know of the journey.

If it could be simplified like you want, it could easily be programmed into some logic. It can't, it requires AI, machine learning, or just a human with an active brain and a desire to use it.

 

[Trex]

I've read this a couple of times and I must admit it's a bit hard to grasp.

Could you simplify this into:
1. When to use EV mode?
2. When to use Charge mode?
3. When to use Save mode?
4. How to drive on the Highway?

Ok I will try.

IMO:
1. Around town speeds in series mode as much as possible.
2. At highway speeds in parallel mode.
3. At highway speeds in parallel mode.
4. As I have written above.

Now for my PHEV parallel mode starts at approx 70kph if I don't smash the accelerator too hard (up till approx 120kph will drop back to or stay in series mode if I smash the accelerator too hard) but parallel mode drops out at approx 65kph or less to series mode (a little bit of hysteresis added to prevent unwanted rapid mode switching I think).

Look at it this way. If you must use fuel for a trip try to only use it in parallel mode IMO where the petrol motor is mechanically engaged to the front axle via a clutch which it is normally at highway speeds from my experience.

Is that as clear as mud? :lol:

Regards Trex.

 

[nrayanov]

I've read this a couple of times and I must admit it's a bit hard to grasp.

Could you simplify this into:
1. When to use EV mode?
2. When to use Charge mode?
3. When to use Save mode?
4. How to drive on the Highway?

Ok I will try.

IMO:
1. Around town speeds in series mode as much as possible.
2. At highway speeds in parallel mode.
3. At highway speeds in parallel mode.
4. As I have written above.

Now for my PHEV parallel mode starts at approx 70kph if I don't smash the accelerator too hard (up till approx 120kph will drop back to or stay in series mode if I smash the accelerator too hard) but parallel mode drops out at approx 65kph or less to series mode (a little bit of hysteresis added to prevent unwanted rapid mode switching I think).

Look at it this way. If you must use fuel for a trip try to only use it in parallel mode IMO where the petrol motor is mechanically engaged to the front axle via a clutch which it is normally at highway speeds from my experience.

Is that as clear as mud? :lol:

Regards Trex.

That is exactly what I needed! Thanks! Waiting for My 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV GT to arrive from Canada.

 

[Andrev]

Just to help people to increase their range on a PHEV. I noticed when fueling the car that the pump automatic system is releasing the handle too early. Thinking the tank was full I was able to add 8 to 10 litres in doing that at a small flow. I think the gas tank vent is too small and the fuel goes too rapidly in the filling tube giving a signal too soon to the nozzle. Be patient fueling, you will add 65 to 75 km to your trip.

 

[littlescrote]

I need a piss way before the car needs fuel.