Should I buy a used phev or new (2023)?

[ontheroad]

My wife and I want to get a plug-in SUV in the next 8 months or so. Our first choice is the Rav4 Prime but getting one new in our timeframe is impossible in Canada, and used ones are outrageously overpriced. So, I've started considering other makes and I see quite a few used Outlander PHEVs (2018-2020) selling for a reasonable price (around 40k CAD for a 2020 top trim with low kms). Does anyone know why they are so reasonably priced? I ask because most other used plug-in SUVs are currently priced higher than they are worth brand new.

As for the 2023 Outlander phev, it would cost me 51k for the base trim and 60k for the SEL (which is what I'd like). I can afford a new one but I'm wondering if it's worth paying that much more for it. The extended electric range and increased safety appeal to me, and I prefer the appearance of the 2023; but other advantages (newer tech, bigger screen, 3rd row) don't mean much to me.

Thoughts?

 

[AndyInOz]

Hmm...

I bought mine when it was one year old for approximately $40k on road.
(ex lease to Mitsubishi)

I bought the top model because of the adaptive cruise control, which is marvelous for long drives in Australia.

(When you activate it, it maintains the current distance and speed of the car in front, so I ping a car that's about a kilometer ahead and then relax. The car starts slowing down before I see the speed sign of the next country town that's coming up...)

The electrically heated seats were a massive bonus, if my back starts playing up, I go for a drive, and hey presto!

(The car has probably saved me a fortune on physio visits, since I haven't seen a physio since I bought the car).

I haven't regretted buying mine second hand, because $20k is not to be sneezed at.

Andy

 

[ontheroad]

Thanks for the info. How has yours held up over the years - it's a 2014? Is the electric range still good?

And how about fuel economy on long drives? That is my biggest concern because I keep reading how the Outlander uses a lot of gas once the battery runs out...but is there a way to getting decent mpg on long trips by driving it a certain way?

 

[littlescrote]

(When you activate it, it maintains the current distance and speed of the car in front, so I ping a car that's about a kilometer ahead and then relax. The car starts slowing down before I see the speed sign of the next country town that's coming up...)

No it doesn't, it controls to one of 3 selectable minimum distances. By default, it's quite far (3 lines under the car symbol) but can go closer with 2 or 1. The car symbol is just an outline if no vehicle is detected in range, and gets filled in white when there is a vehicle in front in range that it might need to do something about.

If you want to not slow down as you approach the back of a slower vehicle you can simply press the accelerator to get your desired speed and override the slowing down by regen that the ACC would normally do.

 

[AndyInOz]

Thanks for the info. How has yours held up over the years - it's a 2014? Is the electric range still good?

And how about fuel economy on long drives? That is my biggest concern because I keep reading how the Outlander uses a lot of gas once the battery runs out...but is there a way to getting decent mpg on long trips by driving it a certain way?

Mine still looks and feels like a new car, albeit with two tiny dings that I inherited.

I'm not sure how the range is holding up. I noticed when I jumped in yesterday it was showing 38 km range,
but the guess-ometer is notoriously hit and miss because it is based on your driving behaviour up to that point.

Note also that I've only just gone over 30,000 km so my car is getting very mild usage.

There are two main determinants on long range fuel consumption:

(a) speed - consumption increases very rapidly as speed increases, if you want to maximise range don't exceed 60 mph/100 kph,

(b) brakes - lots of forum members have reported that their range plummeted when their brakes started to stick in the 'on' position. If you notice a sudden change in range have the brakes inspected.

Overall, highway range has been comparable for me, to my previous tiny four cylinder car, much better than I'd expect from a soft-roading brick.

 

[Carmageddon]

I bought mine 2019 GT at the end of May 22 with ~44k km on the odometer from Montreal.
Its now almost 60k km, I am charging with Level 2 charger at home daily, sometimes twice a day and try to stick to EV driving as much as I can.

The car is great value for money, but there are some things that annoy me very much and you would have to live with:

• It never remembers your EV priority setting, always have to go through the same routine of Start->EV button -> Brakes off-> Autohold On -> Shift to Drive -> Shift twice for B5 (max regen braking) - every single damn time! The alternative is twice more expensive Tesla..
• As temperatures plummeted, I noticed that it turns on the engine even when I start with full battery! after a while it shuts down and uses the battery, I get around 4L/100km average on such occasions - still beats my cold started Hyundai Kona 2L doing over 10 l/100km on similar conditions and commute. It just makes me mad the computer overrules my choice for no reason, how can it charge a charged battery, I am not sure..
• Towing capability of the 2019 motor peaks at about 2500 pounds on the steepest hill I could find in Halifax, testing with a trailer from stop, on a hill - it couldn't tow upwards... 2023 should be about 50% more powerful. I also towed the trailer from Halifax to PEI over the summer - at that particular drive, the stupid computer decided to ignore me pushing the "Charge" button, and discharge the battery before revving up the engine to recharge - its fine on level highway going 110-120km/hr, until you hit longer uphill climb, and then it couldn't generate enough electricity to pull 3000 pounds load - the car started slowing down to about 70km/hr until the uphill section was over, then went back to 110. During that period, the 110v AC power was unavailable to keep charging kid's tablets for example.
  On that drive, when I stopped to refuel I opened the hood - and it was boiling hot! even the support stick to hold the hood was too hot to touch.. I don't think that's normal... I don't know, it keeps working fine after I returned that rented trailer.
• The remote stuff is not ideal and doesn't work as seamless as in Tesla, my phone app stopped connecting, and I guess I will have to re-link it and my wife's phone, and then test the pre-warming stuff again (will update if I don't forget)
• My estimated range oscillates between 26 to 31 km or predicted range, it seems dependant on how long it's been fully charged, if it only recently fully charged, usually would show more km, and if it's been all night charged, would show less. I am not sure at what point a warranty claim on the battery is warranted..
• Have to get into the routine of plugging it always, every day at home, and any other free chargers in the city to get the most savings - it gets tedious, compared to Tesla you'd do it once a week and forget about it. Its not fun sitting down in the driver's seat, and remembering you forgot to unplug it.. If you don't do that routine, you wont save maximum using EV range.
• I am not very impressed with the plastics interior building quality - lots of loose parts, compared to my 19 Hyundai Kona for example, but it could be because of previous use, I don't know... eg: bolt covers on rear seat occasionally come loose and have to be snapped back in place.

Overall, those are small gripes, and only because there's a better toy around to compare which sets a very high bar - Tesla.
If you don't compare to that and calibrate your expectations, the car is a very good value for money! Very reliable, economical and fun to drive with the instant torque when needed! Also driving regular gas cars after a week of driving this one, feels like riding a 19th century car that's rattling, and has wooden tires with no suspensions.. feeling the engine and transmission vibrations..
I am never going back to gas cars for sure, and personally I am waiting for the Cybertruck, with the Outlander PHEV a reasonable value for money to tide us over until then..


I hope that helps!

 

[ontheroad]

Thanks for all the details, it's very helpful info. I won't be towing anything and I'm not too bothered by the cheaper interior quality (as long as the faux leather seats look nice and are comfortable. But 26-31 km of electric range is a bit concerning because my wife's daily commute is nearly 50 km. I was hoping I'd get close to that on a fully charged battery during the warmer months and then maybe 25 km during the winter.

How many L/100 km do you typically get on long distance drives? I know the specs state 9 L/100 km but I'm hoping it can do better than that with some skillful use of the hybrid features - EV charge then use EV only, then charge some more, etc....

And will it stay in EV mode at high speeds (110-120 km/h)?

Thanks!

 

[AndyInOz]

Hmm... I'll chip in where I can...

I haven't checked the overall usage on long trips, so can't comment on that.

With my car, at speeds above 80km/h the car will automatically go into parallel mode, with the engine providing charge for the electric motors (and battery if space available) and directly driving the front wheels.

I don't know if that behaviour can be turned off with newer models.

One other thing I forgot to mention.

I think the manual recommends that the tyres be inflated to 38 psi, on my car, that resulted in the tyres showing the "under inflated" wear pattern.

When I bought new tyres, the provider weighed the car and recommended that I keep the tyres at 41 psi.

It has been suggested that 38 may have been recommended for a more comfortable ride, but I haven't noticed a change in comfort.

The steering seems lighter when the tyres are inflated to 41 though.

I'm fairly sure that 'hyper-milers' inflate their tyres to a higher pressure to reduce rolling resistance, so it's probably something to keep in mind.

Since I'm rarely at a petrol station, I purchased an oil-free compressor and a third-party tyre pressure monitoring system.
That give me a real-time display of tyre temperature and pressure on the dashboard. (small device stuck on the dash mat)

 

[Daixiwen]

About the cheap prices.... When I bought mine (a 4 years old model 2016) there were a lot of PHEVs of that age on the market because there is a big and expensive service that must be done at 4 years, and some owners want to get rid of their car before that. I negotiated with the dealer for a free service if I bought the car (or rather that the service was included in the sales price )
I know that Mitsubishi doesn't have the same service schedule in Canada and Europe, but it may still be a good idea to ask about that before you buy the car, it could be one of the reasons why you can find so many cars at reasonable prices.

 

[ontheroad]

Thanks for the heads up but can you please tell me what this big expensive service requirement is (and how much it costs)? And why is it necessary? I assume it's related to the warranty, which is another concern of mine - for the warranty to remain valid, does all of the car's servicing need to be done at a Mitsubishi dealership?

 

[Carmageddon]

Thanks for all the details, it's very helpful info. I won't be towing anything and I'm not too bothered by the cheaper interior quality (as long as the faux leather seats look nice and are comfortable. But 26-31 km of electric range is a bit concerning because my wife's daily commute is nearly 50 km. I was hoping I'd get close to that on a fully charged battery during the warmer months and then maybe 25 km during the winter.

How many L/100 km do you typically get on long distance drives? I know the specs state 9 L/100 km but I'm hoping it can do better than that with some skillful use of the hybrid features - EV charge then use EV only, then charge some more, etc....

And will it stay in EV mode at high speeds (110-120 km/h)?

Thanks!

The leather seats are nice and comfortable, no doubt about it - despite not having adjustable lumbar support for the driver (I have it on my 19 Kona) - feels very good even on long drives.

I've seen 3 usd exemplars of the car from 18 to 19, and they all displayed range between 26 to 31 km - that isn't precise, you should be aware that actual range highly depends on whether it is mostly highway driving, city or traffic commute.
Speeds over 80km/hr in EV mode suck the life out of the battery (wind resistance requires more power), and on the other hand, slow city traffic with proper driving, can regenerate a lot of the energy, so you'd get much more like 40km+ on EV mode.

I can give you an example of one of my regular routes:
My daughter's gymnastics is 18.7km away via the highway (plus some elevations that sap energy). leaving at full charge, I am able to get there at full EV mode but a couple km on my way back, running out and gas kicks in - by the time I get back home after 37km or so, my gas average is around 3.5 L/100km. If I charge 1.5 hours before heading out again (using max charging as L2 charger), by the time I make the same commute again, I think I average around 5 L/100km. If I dont charge, I think it's about 5.5-6 L/100km or something like that.

My wife doesn't care as much and she turns on AC/heat and heating when she feels like it, and that sucks powers even faster than the above numbers I mentioned.


My recommendation to you is this, if the significant bulk of the driving is going to be your wife's 50km commute (each way? both ways? can she charge at work?) and you can do it mostly electric, enough so that the average gas mileage would be around 3L/100km, then its a good choice, but if its actual 50km each way of highway speeds, no charging at work available or planned, then look for the 2023 Outlander PHEV, it will satisfy your requirements much better.

Another option for 50km commute each way if SUV is not requirement, is the discontinued Chevy Volt - 2018-19 had a very good range and 8 year powertrain/battery warranty, I think you'll get it mostly electric then.

But if the main commute is 25km each way, part of it is in congested slow traffic - those are ideal for maxing out the short PHEV EV range, then the Outlander PHEV will do fine

The big advantage is that it feels like an EV - with instant torque, smooth driving etc, without paying the current high premium of a full EV.

 

[Carmageddon]

About the cheap prices.... When I bought mine (a 4 years old model 2016) there were a lot of PHEVs of that age on the market because there is a big and expensive service that must be done at 4 years, and some owners want to get rid of their car before that. I negotiated with the dealer for a free service if I bought the car (or rather that the service was included in the sales price )
I know that Mitsubishi doesn't have the same service schedule in Canada and Europe, but it may still be a good idea to ask about that before you buy the car, it could be one of the reasons why you can find so many cars at reasonable prices.

Please tell us the details, I am very interested to know.
https://www.surreymitsubishi.ca/outlander-phev-customer-menu.htm
I don't see anything here that stands out as a reason to sell before some expensive milestone!
I actually see that oil change is only once every 24k km!

 

[ontheroad]

My wife's drive is 22 km in each direction, so 44 km in total - not hwy driving but most of it is 80-90 km/h. I don't think she can plug in at work but at least she'll get there without gas. We do like to do longer trips, however - say a 4-5 hour drive on the hwy going 120 km/h. Any idea what our fuel consumption might be then?

That maintenance schedule you provided a link to looks pretty intensive; is the requirement to service the car at a Mitsubishi dealership forcing you to pay for things you wouldn't have otherwise?

 

[Carmageddon]

My wife's drive is 22 km in each direction, so 44 km in total - not hwy driving but most of it is 80-90 km/h. I don't think she can plug in at work but at least she'll get there without gas. We do like to do longer trips, however - say a 4-5 hour drive on the hwy going 120 km/h. Any idea what our fuel consumption might be then?

That maintenance schedule you provided a link to looks pretty intensive; is the requirement to service the car at a Mitsubishi dealership forcing you to pay for things you wouldn't have otherwise?

yes, 22km @ 80-90km/hr on EV is probably doable.
The car comes with a regular 110v Level 1 charger, if she can find any outlet she can plug into, the battery can charge fully in 9 hours I think @ 12 amps power.
I suggest to check out the map of the area on plugshare app - filter for J1772, CHAdeMO and Wall Outlet type of plug along with ticking off "Requires Fee" , it's possible there are free chargers or plugs she is not aware of.
I was going from Toronto to Halifax (about 1800km) when I bought the car, mostly highway driving @120km/hr with 4 winter tires tied up on a roof rack basket adding in wind resistance drag - I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think they were about ~11L/100km? Sorry I don't remember, did not note it down. I know it was crazy number when towing a trailer to PEI, was more like 20 I think lol

There's no such requirements - I did ask and was told that servicing at the dealership is not required to maintaining the warranty. I've been doing the routing maintenance at my usual garage where I am also serving the Kona - Hyundai also told me at the time I can service anywhere doesn't have to be the dealership.
I don't think the list is extensive, if you saw the Kona list in the manual... lol there is so much less stuff to inspect - no transmission being the biggest one, but the rest look like routine inspection of various parts. They only mention oil replacement every 24k which I intend to check, because I've been doing the oil change every 8K so far..

 

[Daixiwen]

Please tell us the details, I am very interested to know.
https://www.surreymitsubishi.ca/outlander-phev-customer-menu.htm
I don't see anything here that stands out as a reason to sell before some expensive milestone!
I actually see that oil change is only once every 24k km!

I will have to find out the details, the the schedule is definitely different in Europe. We have one service every 12 months / 20000 km, with a more expensive one at 4 years, and a really more expensive one at 160000 km.

 

[Carmageddon]

Please tell us the details, I am very interested to know.
https://www.surreymitsubishi.ca/outlander-phev-customer-menu.htm
I don't see anything here that stands out as a reason to sell before some expensive milestone!
I actually see that oil change is only once every 24k km!

I will have to find out the details, the the schedule is definitely different in Europe. We have one service every 12 months / 20000 km, with a more expensive one at 4 years, and a really more expensive one at 160000 km.

Thanks.
All those inconsistencies only serve to reinforce my decision that I'll never buy a non-Tesla car ever again..
Giving different maintenance schedules for the same car to different markets? Different tow ratings? Tesla doesn't do those shenanigans.

 

[littlescrote]

Please tell us the details, I am very interested to know.
https://www.surreymitsubishi.ca/outlander-phev-customer-menu.htm
I don't see anything here that stands out as a reason to sell before some expensive milestone!
I actually see that oil change is only once every 24k km!

Valve clearance checks IIRC as this engine does not have automatic hydraulic adjustment!

 

[nrayanov]

Thanks for all the details, it's very helpful info. I won't be towing anything and I'm not too bothered by the cheaper interior quality (as long as the faux leather seats look nice and are comfortable. But 26-31 km of electric range is a bit concerning because my wife's daily commute is nearly 50 km. I was hoping I'd get close to that on a fully charged battery during the warmer months and then maybe 25 km during the winter.

How many L/100 km do you typically get on long distance drives? I know the specs state 9 L/100 km but I'm hoping it can do better than that with some skillful use of the hybrid features - EV charge then use EV only, then charge some more, etc....

And will it stay in EV mode at high speeds (110-120 km/h)?

Thanks!

If your wife's daily commute is 50 KMs you should get the new Outlander PHEV because it has roughly 60 KMs of range (goes down to 50 KMs in cold weather). The RAV4 PRIME is also an option, but... it's smaller and the 4WD of the Outlander is much better.

 

[mikedufty]

There was an earlier question about staying in EV mode at high speed. The 2020 model definitely does, and also has an "EV mode" button, which will encourage it to stay in EV mode even more, although I think the main difference is you can accellerate more aggressively without the engine starting.
I think some of the 2017-19 models also have this.

Our 2020 would not be likely to handle a 50km commute on pure EV unless speeds were under 80kph.
So I'd think the 2022 would suit you, if you can get one. One reason I got the 2nd hand 2020 is it is a bit difficult to get hold of the new model in Australia. The other reason is it was half the price.

 

[mikepotts64]

There was an earlier question about staying in EV mode at high speed. The 2020 model definitely does, and also has an "EV mode" button, which will encourage it to stay in EV mode even more, although I think the main difference is you can accelerate more aggressively without the engine starting.
I think some of the 2017-19 models also have this.

Our 2020 would not be likely to handle a 50km commute on pure EV unless speeds were under 80kph.
So I'd think the 2022 would suit you, if you can get one. One reason I got the 2nd hand 2020 is it is a bit difficult to get hold of the new model in Australia. The other reason is it was half the price.

My 2021 GSR PHEV does a 92km Motorway trip each way 3 days a week to office. (45,000km in the first year of ownership). I get 48km down the motorway before the 10kW of storage runs out. (@ 110km/h). Average EV usage for the 45,000km from PHEVwatchdog app is 80% EV / 20% fuel. Average consumption for that trip is 3.1lt/100km. Drive settings - normal, Aircon off when temperate enough, B5 or adaptive cruise (B2) depending on traffic. 10amp charge in 4.5 hours at home and work.

Occasional long distance drives 900km mostly motorway returns ~6-7lt/100km (2 fast charges to 80% for 20 minutes each enroute yields the lower number).

All local running 0lt/100kms charged from Home Solar/Tesla battery.