Should I buy a used phev or new (2023)?

[IlovemyPHEV]

We took our 2018 PHEV (bought used) north this past summer on a camping road trip in northern BC and Yukon. Had a very full load, including a roof rack platform with a spare wheel and tire. Logged 6,000 km in the mostly mountainous terrain, with almost no opportunity to plug in. We do tend to drive conservatively keeping the speed between 80 - 100 km/hr depending on conditions. Had absolutely no problems, and carefully measured our fuel usage which came in at 7.1 L/100 km.

In town (Vancouver) where we don't drive much over 30 km return daily, we run almost entirely on electrons. A recent bout of west coast greasy snow and ice proved the vehicle is exceptional in slippery conditions. Comfortable, good viz, nice set of warning and cruise options. An excellent move up for us from our 2008 Prius.

 

[ontheroad]

7.1 l/100 without the battery sounds reasonable and I'm glad one can beat the EPA rating, but I still don't understand why the fuel economy is so much less than the Rav4 Prime and other comparable PHEV SUVs (Santa Fe, for example). I would have thought that after years of R&D Mitsubishi could have improved this, yet the new Outlander has essentially the same fuel economy as the old model.

The increased range is terrific but my wife and I do a lot long distance trips and it would be nice to know that I'll get better MPGs than an ICE suv.

Does anyone know if the EPA rating is accurate for the 2023 PHEV?

 

[AndyInOz]

Is the RAV shorter?

Does it have less headroom?

One of the reasons I bought the Outlander, is that it didn't have the low ceiling common in so many cars these days.

I hate driving with my head jammed against the roof, or with the seat reclined behind the door pillar (and hence seat-belt anchor point) because the ceiling is so low.

A shorter car will have less wind resistance.

 

[ontheroad]

Yes the Rav4 is shorter by about 5 inches but I don't think that explains the reduced fuel economy, since the Lexus RX hybrid is significantly longer than the Outlander but still gets better MPGs. I like the size of the Outlander and I definitely value headroom; I'd just like to know why the fuel economy in hybrid mode is only 26 MPG, and if it can be improved on the 2023 model.

 

[AndyInOz]

You're looking for a difference of less than 1 litre per hundred kilometers.

I was asking about height, not length.

Taller cars have greater wind resistance, shorter cars have less headroom (or ground clearance or both).

 

[nrayanov]

Guys, it's obvious where the MPG difference comes from.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV does indeed have a lower fuel economy rating than some other PHEV SUVs, such as the Toyota Rav4 Prime and the Hyundai Santa Fe. However, it's important to keep in mind that the Outlander PHEV has significantly better all-wheel drive (AWD) capabilities than these other vehicles.

The Outlander PHEV is equipped with a high-performance Twin Motor 4WD system, which provides exceptional traction and stability in a variety of driving conditions. This system is not available on the Rav4 Prime or Santa Fe, both of which only offer much worse AWD systems, especially the Toyota. I went on a test drive last September and each time I pressed the gas pedal on the Rav4 Prime more than let's say half of the way, the front tires were spinning because most of its torque is sent to the front wheels. The Hyundai Santa Fe and the Kia Sorento are using a conventional AWD system in which the front and back wheels are connected by a shaft. The fact that they are using a small petrol engine with a turbo is a NO-NO for me. The turbo is basically a consumable at this point with this heavy vehicle.

While the Outlander PHEV's fuel economy may be lower than some other PHEV SUVs, its superior AWD capabilities may be worth it for drivers who frequently encounter challenging road conditions or who simply want the added peace of mind that comes with having advanced traction control. Additionally, the Outlander PHEV's fuel economy is still quite good compared to traditional ICE SUVs with similar AWD capabilities. Keep in mind, most people are getting better figures than what Mitsubishi claims anyway. And the new generation will not be getting much better MPG without battery either as it is basically using the same system as the previous model - a 2.4 naturally aspirated petrol engine.

 

[slick]

hey guys my first post . im in Canada and had my 2023 outlander phev for just over a month now so cant say much but can tell you what i know . between -2 and -7c im getting around 60 km off the battery so getting 50 i dont think will be an issue especially during the summer .gas alone mileage was a concern for me but after reading posts from guys getting high 6s and low 7s without trying i decided to buy . yup i am getting about 7 gas only with a heavy foot . bigger and heavier than the rav 4 prime with a more energy intensive but better 4wd system .so its a trade off for mileage that i am ok with .

was a stop gap till i get my prime whenever that will be . now im not so sure . think it may be a keeper ... time will tell .

possibly the best vehicle i ever owned .

 

[Hasenphever]

So back to the OP, really only you can decide whether less money for a used represents better value than a new. You're in a good spot though because the previous generation is appropriately priced with the smaller battery. As you have noted the 2023 generation is a step up in materials and features.

If you want a milder PHEV at a lower price, you have the previous generation as an option but if you want something with more range and more modern features for increased quality of life for more money then you have the 2023 as an option, assuming your local dealer can get you in one soon. The first batch that landed in Vancouver are mostly for pre-orders but I'm guessing there will be some that will walk away in which case theirs will be available for serious buyers.

 

[slick]

ontheroad as to your question about the epa rating accuracy . well i think its off buds . no one i have seen is getting the milage they say not even close . they say 9 but everyone ive seen is getting around 7 . weird thing is the rav 4 prime is getting around the epa rating . also the outlander phev seems to be rated about the same as the outlander ice , now that is very weird . so ya i think a mistake has been made .

 

[nrayanov]

Mitsubishi got caught and sued a few times for lying on MPG and low emissions in the past 2 decades. They are putting in higher numbers to be sure, they will not be caught and sued again lying on MPG again.

 

[ravinat]

I live in Central Canada and took a test drive of an Outlander 2023 PHEV today. I put in a deposit for a Ioniq/5 from Hyundai and I am not sure, if they will ever deliver. I am considering the Outlander as its SEL trim is about 60K on the road. I focused on the drive and not much on the electronics today. I am not blown away by the drive, but not disappointed wither. I have a few questions and would appreciate some feedback:

1. Two of the Mitsubishi dealership guys gave me different numbers of EV range and one said 70KM and another said 80KM in summer. The second guy did mention that you'll get about 60KM of EV range in the winter. The official numbers from Mitsubishi is 62 KM. Which is the right number? Has anyone used this and got anywhere greater than 60KM of EV range?

2. One of the salesman told me that it will take 9 hours for a full charge and the second guy told me that it will take about 16 hours. Which is correct? Somewhere I read that it is 14 hours.

3. My Toyota Camry hybrid, after 15 years still gives me about 6.5 L/100KM in the summer and about 7.5-8 L/100KM in the winter. I am hearing different numbers and Mitsubishi says it is 3.6Le/100KM. What is the practical number?

4. How much does the passenger and driver seats recline in the car? The Ioniq/5 has a feature that lets you almost go flat on the driver seat and take a nap.

5. There is very little information on the electronics on board. Can someone give more information on number of USB ports on the SEL model? Are these 2M ports or 1A? I saw 2 ports (one USB-c and another USB-A ) ports in the front). I am not sure if the SEL has charging ports in the rear.

6. Is the Android auto a wired or wireless interface? Even the Ioniq/5 has it as wired only.

7. Does the entertainment system have dedicated USB ports for music and SD slots?

8. Apart from the storage compartment in the center, are there other storage facilities - coin holders, eyeglass holders?

9. Are the interior lights in the car LED lights, or just the headlights only?

10. What is the color of the turn signal - orange or red?

Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[roussir]

I now have 1 month/1.5k miles on a 2023 SEL in moderate climate; here are answers to some of the question:

1. I have exactly 38 miles between home and work, matching the EV range rating. I consistently drive into the garage in downtown Seattle with 1 mile showing on the GoM in EV-preferred mode.

2. 15 hrs on 120V; have not tried the 240V EVSE for a full charge, but it shows 14A, roughly corresponding to the 3.6 kW I've seen somewhere. This should calculate to about 6 hrs based on the 120V full charging.

3. Practical number is difficult, due to varying mix of EV/hybrid driving. I have seen 104 mpg on EV-preferred-only to 29 mpg on mostly hybrid, 55 mpg on the average (the official label values are 64 mpg combined, 26 mpg gas-only).

4. Never tried, but checked sleeping with the 2nd and 3rd rows stowed, and they are almost perfectly flat, but too short for me - will need to fill a hole either between 1st and 2nd, or 2nd and 3rd, depending on where 2nd is. Overall though, my 6'-4" fit without a problem.

5. Confirmed type C and A in front; I am pretty sure the type C is PD (for at least up to 15W? Not sure); confirmed at least one type A for the rear seats.

6. Wired only; I got a wireless adapter, works quite well, with some minor cons (interruptions, difficult to find a place to stick it to).

7. I don't think so.

8. Eyeglass holder above rear mirror. Pockets on the interior sides of front seats, on the sides of the mid-console.

9. LEDs, judging by the spectrum.

10. Orange; I like this, coming from Europe.

 

[malindarayy]

Hi, I also want to know one thing: How To Gift A Car? My Niece is graduating from college and I need advice. She is 23 right now

Hi, I'm new to the group and seeking advice on giving a car to my niece in California. My niece Nikki is about to complete her scholarship, and I'm thinking to gift her a car. I have no clue how to do it, and I am a little nervous about whether it will be a perfect gift for her. She is a brilliant student, and I want to do my best for her. Please advise me.

What things I have to consider, and as you have mentioned about the used outlander car, is it the right choice to make as she is too young as of now? Or Should I consider giving some other car like Prius, honda civic, Hyundai which is smaller and easier to handle? Or do I trust her, give some responsibility to become a better driver?

 

[djohan100]

2. 15 hrs on 120V; have not tried the 240V EVSE for a full charge, but it shows 14A, roughly corresponding to the 3.6 kW I've seen somewhere. This should calculate to about 6 hrs based on the 120V full charging.

I notice, when I tried to charge, using 120v level1 charger, when the battery that already have charge like 60%, the message still said 15 hours to complete, but in reality after 7 hours it stop and battery is full. is there a setting that I need to make ?

 

[Hasenphever]

I live in Central Canada and took a test drive of an Outlander 2023 PHEV today. I put in a deposit for a Ioniq/5 from Hyundai and I am not sure, if they will ever deliver. I am considering the Outlander as its SEL trim is about 60K on the road. I focused on the drive and not much on the electronics today. I am not blown away by the drive, but not disappointed wither. I have a few questions and would appreciate some feedback:

1. Two of the Mitsubishi dealership guys gave me different numbers of EV range and one said 70KM and another said 80KM in summer. The second guy did mention that you'll get about 60KM of EV range in the winter. The official numbers from Mitsubishi is 62 KM. Which is the right number? Has anyone used this and got anywhere greater than 60KM of EV range?
- depends on how you drive and your local terrain. I am getting about 60km in the winter on winter tires, mostly flat driving in the city.

2. One of the salesman told me that it will take 9 hours for a full charge and the second guy told me that it will take about 16 hours. Which is correct? Somewhere I read that it is 14 hours.
- Level 1 EVSE will max out at 12a, which is about 1.3 kwh. In the winter the draw is 10a or 1.1 kwh, so is taking me 19 hours if the battery is completely drained. When the temp is better it should be closer to 16 hours (20 kw/ 1.3 kwh = 16. The last 20% of the battery takes longer to charge).
- level 2 EVSE will max out at 3kwh, which is the limit of the car charger. 20kw/3kwh = 6-7 hours if battery has zero charge, although there is always a reserve in the battery to drive the rear motor so zero battery on the console means less than 20 kw is required to back to 100% charge. I have no experience of differing level 2 evse charge times in the winter without a garage, heated or not.

3. My Toyota Camry hybrid, after 15 years still gives me about 6.5 L/100KM in the summer and about 7.5-8 L/100KM in the winter. I am hearing different numbers and Mitsubishi says it is 3.6Le/100KM. What is the practical number?
- depends on how you drive and your local terrain. I am getting about 6l/100km in the winter (0 to -10C) on winter tires. When the temp got to below -20C I was seeing about 7.5l/100km as the engine runs more often or higher rpms (there is no rpm gauge though so other than on/off you don't know how fast the engine is turning and hence how much fuel it is using). There is no transmission though so the setup is to be a series hybrid: the design is for the ICE to generate electricity to be stored in the battery, which drives the front and rear motors. It runs in parallel hybrid where the ICE can drive the front axle when above 70kmh and when conditions warrant.

4. How much does the passenger and driver seats recline in the car? The Ioniq/5 has a feature that lets you almost go flat on the driver seat and take a nap.
- completely flat. There is a youtube vid by Andreas Lochner where he is sitting in the 2nd row and is using the front seat to rest is legs, lounge chair like.

5. There is very little information on the electronics on board. Can someone give more information on number of USB ports on the SEL model? Are these 2M ports or 1A? I saw 2 ports (one USB-c and another USB-A ) ports in the front). I am not sure if the SEL has charging ports in the rear.
- there is 1 x USB-A and 1 x USB-C port in the front. Same setup in the rear. I forget the mA but one is at least 2mA, if not a bit higher, and the other is higher than 1mA.

6. Is the Android auto a wired or wireless interface? Even the Ioniq/5 has it as wired only.
- wired. I have a Huawei and it does not work with Android Auto though.

7. Does the entertainment system have dedicated USB ports for music and SD slots?
- the front USB ports double as this. There is also a cigarette charge port in the front if you want to add usb charging if using the dedicate usb slots for an audio device. Bluetooth is also another way to stream music.

8. Apart from the storage compartment in the center, are there other storage facilities - coin holders, eyeglass holders?
- door pockets, glove compartment, sunglasses in the roof console. That's it.

9. Are the interior lights in the car LED lights, or just the headlights only?
- don't recall exactly, I think they are incandescent.

10. What is the color of the turn signal - orange or red?
- more yellow than orange. When the headlights are on, the LED running light stays on when the signal flashes. When the headlights are off, the LED running light turns off when the signal flashes.

Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[ravinat]

I live in Central Canada and took a test drive of an Outlander 2023 PHEV today. I put in a deposit for a Ioniq/5 from Hyundai and I am not sure, if they will ever deliver. I am considering the Outlander as its SEL trim is about 60K on the road. I focused on the drive and not much on the electronics today. I am not blown away by the drive, but not disappointed wither. I have a few questions and would appreciate some feedback:

1. Two of the Mitsubishi dealership guys gave me different numbers of EV range and one said 70KM and another said 80KM in summer. The second guy did mention that you'll get about 60KM of EV range in the winter. The official numbers from Mitsubishi is 62 KM. Which is the right number? Has anyone used this and got anywhere greater than 60KM of EV range?
- depends on how you drive and your local terrain. I am getting about 60km in the winter on winter tires, mostly flat driving in the city.

2. One of the salesman told me that it will take 9 hours for a full charge and the second guy told me that it will take about 16 hours. Which is correct? Somewhere I read that it is 14 hours.
- Level 1 EVSE will max out at 12a, which is about 1.3 kwh. In the winter the draw is 10a or 1.1 kwh, so is taking me 19 hours if the battery is completely drained. When the temp is better it should be closer to 16 hours (20 kw/ 1.3 kwh = 16. The last 20% of the battery takes longer to charge).
- level 2 EVSE will max out at 3kwh, which is the limit of the car charger. 20kw/3kwh = 6-7 hours if battery has zero charge, although there is always a reserve in the battery to drive the rear motor so zero battery on the console means less than 20 kw is required to back to 100% charge. I have no experience of differing level 2 evse charge times in the winter without a garage, heated or not.

3. My Toyota Camry hybrid, after 15 years still gives me about 6.5 L/100KM in the summer and about 7.5-8 L/100KM in the winter. I am hearing different numbers and Mitsubishi says it is 3.6Le/100KM. What is the practical number?
- depends on how you drive and your local terrain. I am getting about 6l/100km in the winter (0 to -10C) on winter tires. When the temp got to below -20C I was seeing about 7.5l/100km as the engine runs more often or higher rpms (there is no rpm gauge though so other than on/off you don't know how fast the engine is turning and hence how much fuel it is using). There is no transmission though so the setup is to be a series hybrid: the design is for the ICE to generate electricity to be stored in the battery, which drives the front and rear motors. It runs in parallel hybrid where the ICE can drive the front axle when above 70kmh and when conditions warrant.

4. How much does the passenger and driver seats recline in the car? The Ioniq/5 has a feature that lets you almost go flat on the driver seat and take a nap.
- completely flat. There is a youtube vid by Andreas Lochner where he is sitting in the 2nd row and is using the front seat to rest is legs, lounge chair like.

5. There is very little information on the electronics on board. Can someone give more information on number of USB ports on the SEL model? Are these 2M ports or 1A? I saw 2 ports (one USB-c and another USB-A ) ports in the front). I am not sure if the SEL has charging ports in the rear.
- there is 1 x USB-A and 1 x USB-C port in the front. Same setup in the rear. I forget the mA but one is at least 2mA, if not a bit higher, and the other is higher than 1mA.

6. Is the Android auto a wired or wireless interface? Even the Ioniq/5 has it as wired only.
- wired. I have a Huawei and it does not work with Android Auto though.

7. Does the entertainment system have dedicated USB ports for music and SD slots?
- the front USB ports double as this. There is also a cigarette charge port in the front if you want to add usb charging if using the dedicate usb slots for an audio device. Bluetooth is also another way to stream music.

8. Apart from the storage compartment in the center, are there other storage facilities - coin holders, eyeglass holders?
- door pockets, glove compartment, sunglasses in the roof console. That's it.

9. Are the interior lights in the car LED lights, or just the headlights only?
- don't recall exactly, I think they are incandescent.

10. What is the color of the turn signal - orange or red?
- more yellow than orange. When the headlights are on, the LED running light stays on when the signal flashes. When the headlights are off, the LED running light turns off when the signal flashes.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Thanks for your response.

BTW, what was your wait period for getting the PHEV? My dealer says 4-6 months. Is this realistic?

 

[Lon12]

I live in Central Canada and took a test drive of an Outlander 2023 PHEV today. I put in a deposit for a Ioniq/5 from Hyundai and I am not sure, if they will ever deliver. I am considering the Outlander as its SEL trim is about 60K on the road. I focused on the drive and not much on the electronics today. I am not blown away by the drive, but not disappointed wither. I have a few questions and would appreciate some feedback:

1. Two of the Mitsubishi dealership guys gave me different numbers of EV range and one said 70KM and another said 80KM in summer. The second guy did mention that you'll get about 60KM of EV range in the winter. The official numbers from Mitsubishi is 62 KM. Which is the right number? Has anyone used this and got anywhere greater than 60KM of EV range?

2. One of the salesman told me that it will take 9 hours for a full charge and the second guy told me that it will take about 16 hours. Which is correct? Somewhere I read that it is 14 hours.

3. My Toyota Camry hybrid, after 15 years still gives me about 6.5 L/100KM in the summer and about 7.5-8 L/100KM in the winter. I am hearing different numbers and Mitsubishi says it is 3.6Le/100KM. What is the practical number?

4. How much does the passenger and driver seats recline in the car? The Ioniq/5 has a feature that lets you almost go flat on the driver seat and take a nap.

5. There is very little information on the electronics on board. Can someone give more information on number of USB ports on the SEL model? Are these 2M ports or 1A? I saw 2 ports (one USB-c and another USB-A ) ports in the front). I am not sure if the SEL has charging ports in the rear.

6. Is the Android auto a wired or wireless interface? Even the Ioniq/5 has it as wired only.

7. Does the entertainment system have dedicated USB ports for music and SD slots?

8. Apart from the storage compartment in the center, are there other storage facilities - coin holders, eyeglass holders?

9. Are the interior lights in the car LED lights, or just the headlights only?

10. What is the color of the turn signal - orange or red?

Thanks in advance for your response.

9. Not LED. I have posted pictures of some of them in the Technical Discussion forum.
https://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=60981#p60981