PHEV review after 2 1/2 years.

[Trex]

Ok just a quick review on my thoughts of the Phev that might be handy for people that are considering purchasing or are worried about their new purchase.

One word that describes my ownership. Fantastic. Its comfortable, good fuel (petrol) consumption (like none around town) spacious, quiet and surprising quick for its size, (feels like it has a V6 up front to me) and is cheap to run. What is not to like about it? Sure there may be better cars but here in Australia those cars are a lot more expensive to buy and or more expensive to maintain.

But I hear you say what about all the problems with the MMCS, no EV button, petrol motor starting for heating (got to see that last winter here) etc, etc, don't they bug you? No they do not. There are work arounds for all the little idiosyncrasies that are documented for the Phev just as there are for all cars. It is just not a problem for me, or my wife and sons who mainly drive the Phev now. Pushing a couple of buttons or learning how to avoid something is really not that hard in the scheme of things.

But it does not mean there will not be improvements in the future. As a engineer I know nothing is perfect that it cannot be improved. It has and will continue to be improved in future models but I do not regret for one minute the purchase of the 1st model Phev.

Regards Trex.

 

[HHL]

Ok just a quick review on my thoughts of the Phev that might be handy for people that are considering purchasing or are worried about their new purchase.

One word that describes my ownership. Fantastic. Its comfortable, good fuel (petrol) consumption (like none around town) spacious, quiet and surprising quick for its size, (feels like it has a V6 up front to me) and is cheap to run. What is not to like about it? Sure there may be better cars but here in Australia those cars are a lot more expensive to buy and or more expensive to maintain.

But I hear you say what about all the problems with the MMCS, no EV button, petrol motor starting for heating (got to see that last winter here) etc, etc, don't they bug you? No they do not. There are work arounds for all the little idiosyncrasies that are documented for the Phev just as there are for all cars. It is just not a problem for me, or my wife and sons who mainly drive the Phev now. Pushing a couple of buttons or learning how to avoid something is really not that hard in the scheme of things.

But it does not mean there will not be improvements in the future. As a engineer I know nothing is perfect that it cannot be improved. It has and will continue to be improved in future models but I do not regret for one minute the purchase of the 1st model Phev.

Regards Trex.

Couldn't agree more!
Had mine for just over a year and very happy with the car, it does exactly what I bought it for (and low fuel consumption wasn't high on my list!)
My usage is probably ideal as I do a lot of very short trips where a normal car would barely warm up properly.
Two weeks ago we did a longish day trip (Sydney-Mudgee through the Blue Mountains and back via the Hunter Valley), a 750km loop and the car could not have performed better. It is awesome how the electric motors combine with the petrol engine to give serious acceleration when it is needed.
The quietness at highway speeds makes for a very relaxed drive!
Also, no noticeable reduction in battery range after 22,000 km.

 

[Sumpy]

Thank's for the review, I have owned my PHEV for just a few weeks now and as a retired propulsion engineer I had some concerns over the longevity of the drive battery as I considered what to buy, but from posts on this and other EV forums I am satisfied that even though the car is packed with new technology the reliability and quality (excluding some interior trim) is of a high standard (I used to strip and rebuild Rolls Royce jet engines). So thank you all on this forum for helping me to choose what is turning out not just to be a reliable and safe means of ferrying my family about, but something that is innovative and interesting to drive as well.

 

[Trex]

Sorry for the late reply. Bloody work and all that.

HHL- sounds like a good trip. Have not been to Mudgee for at least 10 years. Have to head out there for a look. Yes except for Batmon showing a degrading of the battery (and I got a battery printout off Mitsi at last service) on my 6 monthy tests I do there is no noticeable reduction in range. But still, early days.

Sumpy- my pleasure. I hope you enjoy the Phev as much as I do. What interior trim items are showing quality problems?

A Rolls Royce aero engineer. As a pilot and engineer I have much respect for that brand. Qantas here always request Rolls Royce engines over Pratt and Whitney for their planes and my 2 mates I learnt to fly with ( their father was our CFI ) are Qantas captains and they love them ( yes even after the A380 problem). I bet you have some interesting stories.

Regards Trex.

 

[ultralights]

Had ours now for nearly 9 months, and its due for its 30,000 km service next week (600km to go as i write this) no isues with battery at all, and approaching mid summer, the range it the best i have seen, usually 50km+ reported every morning. Only issue i had was once over a 2 week break, the OBDII reader and WIFI drained the 12 volt battery, and it needed a recharge with an external 12 volt lead acid battery charger to get it going again. and most setting in the MMCS had been lost.

as for use, only had the engine start 2 times in winter due to temperatures (i am in Sydney after all) and that was easily avoided by simply not turning on the heater in the morning, lucky i only have a 10 min drive to work.
EV only button would be nice, but as stated before, its really not needed and after a month or so of ownership, you learn how hard to push the pedal, and hence, how high you can go on the power needle before the engine fires up to help out.

I do a lot of trips to the Australian Alps, save mode all the way there, arrive at the hills with 90% battery, and the extra help from the motors and that EV torque are brilliant on steep winding roads. and make overtaking a breeze.

my only niggling gripe, involves the use of the dashcams, every time you turn the car on, full on, to ready mode, the power is cut to every system momentarily, causing the cams to shut down, and restart.. i can understand ICE Outlanders doing this, as all power is needed to turn a starter motor, but its annoying in the PHEV when things need to powered at all times.. (well dashcams anyway) and it resets the MMCS forcing you to wait and press the OK after the warning is shown..

and my other gripe, that bloody MMCS warning every time you drive.... though, there is also a new Kia Sprtage in the driveway as well, and its entertainment and info system are the same, press ok after a too long displayed warning.

oh, and the PHEV isnt a friend of deep sand.

 

[Regulo]

Hi, Ultralights,

Re: the dashcam cut-off. I have recently powered my dashcam from a permanent live feed, and I definitely don't see the dashcam cutting off at start-up. Perhaps you have a particularly voltage-sensitive model. There has been a discussion on here about making the accessory ports permanently live, so perhaps those that have done this can confirm whether their dashcams cut out or not?

As for the theme of this thread, I've had my 4H from new in Sep 14, and still can't get enough of it! A few niggles, but that's going to be the case with any car, I think. If you want something with no niggles, you'd better build it yourself. It's been trouble-free (so far), and I still look for excuses to drive it. It has opened my eyes to EV propulsion, and the future direction of motoring. Just need better battery technology, and now the big players are getting interested, who knows?

 

[Sumpy]

Sumpy- my pleasure. I hope you enjoy the Phev as much as I do. What interior trim items are showing quality problems?

Some of the plastics used around the passenger side glovebox and the plastic used on the door lock mechanical switches don't feel as good a quality as they should for a car this expensive and the shade on the sunroof is very flimsy, I know that it is a very minor niggle (and just goes to show how good the car is) but I always like to have a gripe about something - being an old-git :lol:

A Rolls Royce aero engineer. As a pilot and engineer I have much respect for that brand. Qantas here always request Rolls Royce engines over Pratt and Whitney for their planes and my 2 mates I learnt to fly with ( their father was our CFI ) are Qantas captains and they love them ( yes even after the A380 problem). I bet you have some interesting stories.

I didn't work for RR but serviced Adour engines (amongst others) whilst serving in the RAF. Loads of stories but if I told you them I would then have to kill you :shock: or more likely that you would just die of boredom

 

[Trex]

Had ours now for nearly 9 months, and its due for its 30,000 km service next week (600km to go as i write this) no isues with battery at all, and approaching mid summer, the range it the best i have seen, usually 50km+ reported every morning. Only issue i had was once over a 2 week break, the OBDII reader and WIFI drained the 12 volt battery, and it needed a recharge with an external 12 volt lead acid battery charger to get it going again. and most setting in the MMCS had been lost.

as for use, only had the engine start 2 times in winter due to temperatures (i am in Sydney after all) and that was easily avoided by simply not turning on the heater in the morning, lucky i only have a 10 min drive to work.
EV only button would be nice, but as stated before, its really not needed and after a month or so of ownership, you learn how hard to push the pedal, and hence, how high you can go on the power needle before the engine fires up to help out.

I do a lot of trips to the Australian Alps, save mode all the way there, arrive at the hills with 90% battery, and the extra help from the motors and that EV torque are brilliant on steep winding roads. and make overtaking a breeze.

my only niggling gripe, involves the use of the dashcams, every time you turn the car on, full on, to ready mode, the power is cut to every system momentarily, causing the cams to shut down, and restart.. i can understand ICE Outlanders doing this, as all power is needed to turn a starter motor, but its annoying in the PHEV when things need to powered at all times.. (well dashcams anyway) and it resets the MMCS forcing you to wait and press the OK after the warning is shown..

and my other gripe, that bloody MMCS warning every time you drive.... though, there is also a new Kia Sprtage in the driveway as well, and its entertainment and info system are the same, press ok after a too long displayed warning.

oh, and the PHEV isnt a friend of deep sand.

If you have the Aspire model no need to turn off heaters just lower the temp setting to lowest and watch the AC/heater consumption on MMCS and keep it below about 4.25 KW, as it warms you can gradually lift temp setting. Then petrol motor will not start.

Next time you go to the Alps try only saving 50%. Still enough for me to climb the Great Dividing Range and I use less fuel.

Did you reduce pressure on tyres to a min 20 PSI and if still struggling go to as low as 15 PSI? I have done a lot of beach driving and just not on the hard sand. But not tried the Phev yet as I cannot get it off the wife and kids. :roll: But the PHEV just maybe too heavy?

 

[Trex]

Sumpy- my pleasure. I hope you enjoy the Phev as much as I do. What interior trim items are showing quality problems?

Some of the plastics used around the passenger side glovebox and the plastic used on the door lock mechanical switches don't feel as good a quality as they should for a car this expensive and the shade on the sunroof is very flimsy, I know that it is a very minor niggle (and just goes to show how good the car is) but I always like to have a gripe about something - being an old-git :lol:

A Rolls Royce aero engineer. As a pilot and engineer I have much respect for that brand. Qantas here always request Rolls Royce engines over Pratt and Whitney for their planes and my 2 mates I learnt to fly with ( their father was our CFI ) are Qantas captains and they love them ( yes even after the A380 problem). I bet you have some interesting stories.

I didn't work for RR but serviced Adour engines (amongst others) whilst serving in the RAF. Loads of stories but if I told you them I would then have to kill you :shock: or more likely that you would just die of boredom

Old git. :lol: I have not heard that term for awhile.

Ah the Adour. Named after a French river unlike other RR engines like the Trent, Avon, etc because it was done in partnership with the French for the Jaguar. You work on the Jaguar? Have not heard a bad thing said about it. But you would know.

As a part timer for the RAAF (Cadets and Reserve) for over 10 years I have may have heard some of those stories before. Boredom no. I like to listen as I learn better that way.

But all the best on the PHEV and I hope you do not get too upset about the niggles and just enjoy it. Life is too short to get hung up on the minor crap.

Regards Trex.

 

[Trex]

As for the theme of this thread, I've had my 4H from new in Sep 14, and still can't get enough of it! A few niggles, but that's going to be the case with any car, I think. If you want something with no niggles, you'd better build it yourself. It's been trouble-free (so far), and I still look for excuses to drive it. It has opened my eyes to EV propulsion, and the future direction of motoring. Just need better battery technology, and now the big players are getting interested, who knows?

Bravo.

Well said.

Regards Trex.

 

[ultralights]

If you have the Aspire model no need to turn off heaters just lower the temp setting to lowest and watch the AC/heater consumption on MMCS and keep it below about 4.25 KW, as it warms you can gradually lift temp setting. Then petrol motor will not start.

Next time you go to the Alps try only saving 50%. Still enough for me to climb the Great Dividing Range and I use less fuel.

Did you reduce pressure on tyres to a min 20 PSI and if still struggling go to as low as 15 PSI? I have done a lot of beach driving and just not on the hard sand. But not tried the Phev yet as I cannot get it off the wife and kids. :roll: But the PHEV just maybe too heavy?

Sadly we have the normal model, so no heated seats, but i do have a wrecked Aspire model in the back yard, and have swapped the heated seats from that into mine, but need a MUTIII programmer to tell the car that they are now fitted and to let them work, as for the sand, the road was the old road between Crescent Head and Port Macquarie, along behind the beach, and the sand simply got to deep, and the battery bottomed out on the sand stopping all motion, i leter realised i found the wrong road, and was looking for one further west thats PHEV friendly.

Is there a big difference between climbing the dividing range with 50% as compared to 90%? when i leave home, i set the button to save mode with the full battery (i live 1 km from the M5 motorway on ramp) and leave it there till i get to Jindabyne, the climb from Sydney to Mittagong is 800Mtrs altitude gain, and its pretty much flat all the way to Jindabyne, only when there do you start to climb to the ski resorts. usually shows about 7Ltrs/100 for the trip to the alps. a lot less coming home as i arrive home with 1/4 tank and the running around in the city lowers the average fuel use back to the usual.

 

[Sumpy]

But all the best on the PHEV and I hope you do not get too upset about the niggles and just enjoy it. Life is too short to get hung up on the minor crap.

Thank you and I totally agree. The PHEV is a fantastic car for this moment in time, and yes it would be nice to have further EV range and seven seats etc. etc. this will all come with time, investment and research, but at this moment it is the best vehicle (in my opinion) for me and my families requirements and I am enjoying it to the full. I hope you enjoy many ICE free miles to come

 

[maby]

Our driver's seat is beginning to creak quite alarmingly - and, before anyone suggests it, neither of us is particularly overweight!

The gearstick is also getting sticky - I move it to Drive and it does not always return to the centre point. The car still moves but, after a few yards, it starts beeping rather alarmingly until I flick the stick back.

 

[jaapv]

The creaking seat is a known issue - and should be dealt with on guaranty.

 

[Trex]

Sadly we have the normal model, so no heated seats, but i do have a wrecked Aspire model in the back yard, and have swapped the heated seats from that into mine, but need a MUTIII programmer to tell the car that they are now fitted and to let them work, as for the sand, the road was the old road between Crescent Head and Port Macquarie, along behind the beach, and the sand simply got to deep, and the battery bottomed out on the sand stopping all motion, i leter realised i found the wrong road, and was looking for one further west thats PHEV friendly.

Is there a big difference between climbing the dividing range with 50% as compared to 90%? when i leave home, i set the button to save mode with the full battery (i live 1 km from the M5 motorway on ramp) and leave it there till i get to Jindabyne, the climb from Sydney to Mittagong is 800Mtrs altitude gain, and its pretty much flat all the way to Jindabyne, only when there do you start to climb to the ski resorts. usually shows about 7Ltrs/100 for the trip to the alps. a lot less coming home as i arrive home with 1/4 tank and the running around in the city lowers the average fuel use back to the usual.

You mean the wheel ruts on the track were too deep and you bottomed out or you spun the wheels in the soft sand until you bottomed out? I know the track well as you are travelling in my neck of the woods.

I posted this some time ago but will bring it in here:

Hi folks,

This will be the last test I will do for awhile. I hope it helps everyone.

I picked the flattest area around here ( and it is very flat across the river valley here) on the dual lane freeway (in each direction) that runs past our small city. It is made up of approx. 12kms of 100kph zone and 10km of 110kph zone. I picked that stretch for its easy turn around at each end as well as being flat.

So the test consisted of driving in one direction then the other followed by a quick turnaround at each end. Traffic was light. I sat on 105kph . I used cruise control the whole time except at each end when I was turning around.

Now this is the same as I did the other night but more scientifically ie I ran both directions fully before taking measurements to allow for any wind or elevation changes. I have not, I repeat not done that before.

Here are the results.

Press save button straight at start with full battery. 15 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 15kw

Press Save at 13 bars. 14 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 25kw

Press Save at 11 bars. 12 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times B5 37kw

Press Save at 8 bars. 9 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 7 bars. 8 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 6 bars. 7 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 4 bars. 5 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

At 1 bars (normal mode). 1 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

Note No AC or heater on.

Note The B5 amounts are Regen that I could get at the end of the runs with the paddles set to B5 when turning around.

Note Where I said the petrol motor never stopped it only stopped at each end of the run where I turned around.

Note Where the Petrol motor stopped I read it at the same point of the hybrid cycle.

Note I could not do this test more scientifically without putting it on a dyno.

Note I have just lost 6 hrs out of my life.

Note There are no more Notes. :lol:

Regards Trex.

Now you were getting 7Lts/100km which is bloody good but you are also including the charge from the grid which is screwing up the data and we do not know the average speed you were travelling.

But in the above test I used the number of bars (16) on battery screen on the MMCS and I think you can work out the rest for yourself. Now it may not seem such difference fuel wise but I think people should remember you are not getting max regen till around 12 bars or 75% which shows in that data above.

We cannot get away from the fact that the car is more efficient when the drive battery is at a lower level because it can take a greater charge because of the chemistry of the battery and the programming to allow for that chemistry.

Regards Trex.

 

[Trex]

I hope you enjoy many ICE free miles to come

:lol: My wife and sons certainly will. :roll:

But thanks.

 

[Trex]

Our driver's seat is beginning to creak quite alarmingly - and, before anyone suggests it, neither of us is particularly overweight!

The gearstick is also getting sticky - I move it to Drive and it does not always return to the centre point. The car still moves but, after a few yards, it starts beeping rather alarmingly until I flick the stick back.

The seat may just need some lubricating. It certainly does not sound like a major problem.

The gearstick may have a large bump or something spilled around it. Again does not sound like a big problem.

Especially when we have a 5 year warranty.

Regards Trex.

 

[maby]

Our driver's seat is beginning to creak quite alarmingly - and, before anyone suggests it, neither of us is particularly overweight!

The gearstick is also getting sticky - I move it to Drive and it does not always return to the centre point. The car still moves but, after a few yards, it starts beeping rather alarmingly until I flick the stick back.

The seat may just need some lubricating. It certainly does not sound like a major problem.

The gearstick may have a large bump or something spilled around it. Again does not sound like a big problem.

Especially when we have a 5 year warranty.

Regards Trex.

You may have 5 years - I only have 3...

 

[Trex]

You may have 5 years - I only have 3...

I thought you had 5 year warranties as well. :? Its on the UK website you do. :?