Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[twiggy144]

I am curious as to why the forced EVmode on a cold day. Let the car warm up its components by design just like most EVs.
Just trying to understand. R

In most cases, you are right, I would let the ICE start and warm up the cabin. But for a short 2 km ride to the local convenience store, I'd rather not want to use the ICE, which will burn 20 liter per 100km when started cold for a short ride with a lot of stops and red lights on the way. I'd rather want to button up my winter coat and endure the cold for a 5 minute ride.

 

[PHEV07]

On my 2024 GT Model, I have noticed that once I start the Car without depressing the Brake Pedal, if the estimated range shows as - - -. The car will not go into EV Mode even if I do try forcing it into EV Mode.

This seems to occur when the Battery Gauge bar is closer to the the left Blue Horizontal line than to the left white vertical line and the Temperature is lower than -14'C.

I sure wish that the Battery Gauge was digital, but at least the 2023 to 2025 Models have a Battery Gauge.

I also wish that the My Connect App had a Battery Temperature Section

But "Wishing and Hoping" will not make it happen, I fear.

 

[mebarrera]

Glad to read that she is enjoying the car and has had no starting problems .... yet. I hope she never does.

SInce the Battery range on your photo is displaying (42kms) the Battery Temperature must be to the right of the left white line.

Can you post a photo of the Battery Temperature, please? My 2024 shows - - - when my Battery Temperature is on the white line or to the left of the line.

We visited some friends and stayed overnight, It was around -20 Celsius overnight.
The vehicle was parked outside all night and not plugged in.
It stayed outside for almost 24 hours before we decided to go back home.
Because of what was read on these post was a little scared about the vehicle not starting.
It was about -15 Celsius when we started the vehicle and started without issues and we drove back home (yay!).
The only 'issue' to report is that compared to a gasoline V6, that the Outlander replaced, the cabin was cold and stayed like that for a while (if not the complete trip).
Here is the battery temperature indicator you requested. Will keep posting about winter since February is usually the coldest month.
The bar is useless as you mentioned, since it does not give you an idea of what the real temperature without any units next to it.
But here it is (after spending all night outside without pluggin it in):

 

[PHEV07]

We visited some friends and stayed overnight, It was around -20 Celsius overnight.
The vehicle was parked outside all night and not plugged in.
It stayed outside for almost 24 hours before we decided to go back home.
Because of what was read on these post was a little scared about the vehicle not starting.
It was about -15 Celsius when we started the vehicle and started without issues and we drove back home (yay!).
The only 'issue' to report is that compared to a gasoline V6, that the Outlander replaced, the cabin was cold and stayed like that for a while (if not the complete trip).
Here is the battery temperature indicator you requested. Will keep posting about winter since February is usually the coldest month.
The bar is useless as you mentioned, since it does not give you an idea of what the real temperature without any units next to it.
But here it is (after spending all night outside without pluggin it in):
View attachment 1782

Glad to hear that you had no trouble starting the car

Thanks for the photo.

So at -14'C the Battery Temp Gauge is to the right of the vertical White line and it does display the Battery range left.

As for the Cab Heat. Did you drive the car in EV Mode or on ICE.

If on ICE, the Cab should have heated up. I usually set my temp control to 19'C then down to 18'C because my Cab does get Hot I select the diverter position to Defrost and Floor and fan on full blast when the air gets warmer

If you drove in EV Mode. The Heat Pump is useless once the temp drops lower than -12'C because these Models no longer have a Resistive or PTC Heater for the Cab

I had better look at your gauges. This photo was raking as you were driving with the ICE so you should have had good heat.

 

[twiggy144]

Report of this cold morning drive:

Ambient temperature -16C, car not plugged intentionnally for last 48 hours, battery SOC 7/8 full, forced EV mode, got the turtle as per the follwing pic, ICE started immediately, battery temperature was slightly left of the white marker line:





Drove 4 km, had breakfast with friends, returned home after 3 hours. Ambient temperature had risen to -13C, yet EV mode would still not engage, message displayed was: "EV mode not available, battery too cold". The driving range on the battery still displayed ---.

Even with the turtle power reduction mode, I had plenty of power to do city driving.

I think if had the car plugged for a few hours before driving, the battery would have been warm enough to engage the EV mode. This scenario yet to be tested.

 

[PHEV07]

Report of this cold morning drive:

Ambient temperature -16C, car not plugged intentionnally for last 48 hours, battery SOC 7/8 full, forced EV mode, got the turtle as per the follwing pic, ICE started immediately, battery temperature was slightly left of the white marker line:

View attachment 1790
View attachment 1791


Drove 4 km, had breakfast with friends, returned home after 3 hours. Ambient temperature had risen to -13C, yet EV mode would still not engage, message displayed was: "EV mode not available, battery too cold". The driving range on the battery still displayed ---.

Even with the turtle power reduction mode, I had plenty of power to do city driving.

I think if had the car plugged for a few hours before driving, the battery would have been warm enough to engage the EV mode. This scenario yet to be tested.




View attachment 1793

Thanks for Photos.

Unfortunately you will find that charging the car does not warm up the Battery as much as just driving in EV Mode but Unfortunately, at -12'C or colder, the EV Mode does not kick in, as you will find out soon.

 

[twiggy144]

Thanks for Photos.

Unfortunately you will find that charging the car foes not warm up tge Battery as much as just driving in EV Mode but Unfortunately, at -12'C or colder, tgd EV Mode does not kick in, as you will find out soon.

 

[twiggy144]

Right on!
Late this afternoon, température display in the dashboard was -11C, EV mode lit up in the Dash, remaining battery range in km displayed, but ICE started immediately, ignoring my command to force EV, but shut down after 2-3 km of driving. By then battery temp had increased slightly past the white line, as per following pic:

 

[PHEV07]

Right on!
Late this afternoon, température display in the dashboard was -11C, EV mode lit up in the Dash, remaining battery range in km displayed, but ICE started immediately, ignoring my command to force EV, but shut down after 2-3 km of driving. By then battery temp had increased slightly past the white line, as per following pic:
View attachment 1795

There you go. You are getting the hang of it

At this temperature, after forcing into EV mode and if ICE starts up, I let it run for 1 munite. Turn it off and restart in EV Mode and ICE usually kicks out.

At these temperatures, since it is cool in the car I plug in a 1500 Watt Cerematic Heater to the Inverter Plug and turn on Inverter. I also turn hvac fan on to 1 bar. When I see the Air Temp out of vent at 15'C I turn off inverter and let Heat Pump do its job as long as outside temp is warmer than -13'C otherwise I use Ceramic Heater as well.

I use a metal meat thermomer and push it in the top left Dash Vent. Use paperclips to hold in place.

I will get a close up photo posted tomorrow.

 

[Arian]

-32c here. my 2014 with 200k on it is going strong with a few quirks. Its odd to me that your car forces EV, mine does the opposite, it starts in EV then after a minute or so regardless of wether iam stationary it starts the engine and wont go back to EV again until the car is presulably warm (after 15 minutes or so active driving)

I did need to jury rig a second 12v battery in my trunk tho, even after purchasing a new battery for my car it simply flatlines if not charged regularly(the 12v) those factory/recomended batteries are simply too weak for this climate when being out in the wilds for 48 hours without running the engine or charging. But thats off topic altho i would apreciate battery recomendations so i can go back to only having one.

 

[Grandad]

Thank you.

Will be driving it shortly to go home.

Tomorrow it is going down to -30'C but warming up a bit for Sunday

I will report any issues.

Fingers crossed.

‐-----------

Engine started fine Battery Temperature gauge was about 1/16" to the right of the left blue mark. Battery SOC displayed _ _ _

Turtle Mode on during my 10 minute drive and Heat out of air vent hit 30'C but Cab Temperature was only 4'C. Had Heated Seats and Steering on along with rear window defroster on.

I follow and appreciate all the threads of this discussion but every once-in-a-while I stop and realise how absolutely ludicrous it is in this day and age to have to babysit a new vehicle that was purchased for as much as it cost (my 23 was $60k all-in) to this degree. After the purchase we have effectively been cut loose from dealers and the manufacturer and left to look for solutions and track weather reports and ambient temperatures wondering whether our "reliable - ready to take on winter weather" will start to take us to work in the morning to pay for it. THIS IS NUTS!!! (That's quite a run-on sentence isn't it? But now I feel a little better...but it wears off quickly ;-)

 

[Grandad]

There you go. You are getting the hang of it

At this temperature, after forcing into EV mode and if ICE starts up, I let it run for 1 munite. Turn it off and restart in EV Mode and ICE usually kicks out.

At these temperatures, since it is cool in the car I plug in a 1500 Watt Cerematic Heater to the Inverter Plug and turn on Inverter. I also turn hvac fan on to 1 bar. When I see the Air Temp out of vent at 15'C I turn off inverter and let Heat Pump do its job as long as outside temp is warmer than -13'C otherwise I use Ceramic Heater as well.

I use a metal meat thermomer and push it in the top left Dash Vent. Use paperclips to hold in place.

I will get a close up photo posted tomorrow.View attachment 1797

Haha-had to laugh when I saw the picture - my first thought being "is the turkey done yet?" ... some turkey...

 

[Grandad]

Some owners of the 2024 Oulander PHEVs are starting to receive these letters from Mitsubishi

What a waste of Paper and Postage.

Mitsubishi must know that the operating range of the Lithium-Ion Batteries is between -20'C to 60'C so their failure to add a Battery Heater to the Battery Pack is what may cause damage to the Battery Pack, not whether we plug in the car or not because once the Battery is fully charged no more charge will be accepted.

So no heating of the Batteries will be possible. Mitsubishi Motors knows this very well.

This may be the last Mitsubishi Product that I Purchase if Mitsubishi Motors continues to try to take us for fools.

The Battery Pack requires a Battery Heater so the car can utilize the Battery Management System that the 2022 and older models have had since the PHEV have been on the road.

View attachment 1750

Thanks for the updated letter - keeping the issue current is important. Mitsu would like us to simply let it go.
This is essentially the same letter I received in February related to my 23 GT. IMHO it/they have been issued on the company's lawyers recommendation as a CYA measure. As you suggest, it says nothing of value and commits to nothing. After asserting Mitsubishi's undying commitment to excellence it goes on to use weasel wording thatavoids any responsibility.

It could have otherwise been worded "When winter comes your expensive new vehicle perhaps, maybe, might not start. If it doesn't, you may want to plug it in, call a cab, and come back in the spring. Don't call us, we'll call you (not). You bought it, you own it,.What was your name again? Remember, we at Mitsubishi stand behind our product, we also stand in front of it - it's safe to do so because it's not going anywhare anytime soon. Enjoy your 10 year warranty...sucker!"

As you say elsewhere PHEV07 - you gotta have a sense of humour - wrapped around an ugly truth.

 

[AndyInOz]

One thing that I'm really struggling with, especially as a person who lives in an area where the temperature rarely falls below zero...

If you live somewhere, where the overnight temperatures fall below minus thirty celcius, why is your car parked outside?

I would have assumed that heated car covers, or insulated garages, or something, would be standard operating procedure in those extremes.

 

[Grandad]

One thing that I'm really struggling with, especially as a person who lives in an area where the temperature rarely falls below zero...

If you live somewhere, where the overnight temperatures fall below minus thirty celcius, why is your car parked outside?

I would have assumed that heated car covers, or insulated garages, or something, would be standard operating procedure in those extremes.

Not so - in most of Canada and in non-urban areas in particular indoor parking is far from being the rule.

Generally ICE only vehicles are supported by plug-in block heaters where the weather is regularly below -15 or colder, and they start and run just fine if maintained. EV's and PHEV's engineered with integrated traction battery heaters (the industry standard) are also functional in temperatures down to the low -30's C by maintained a battery temperature at or above -20C a standard for most lith-ion equipped vehicles. In my neighbourhood (where we usually have -25C to -35C (and colder) stretches of a week or so 2 or 3 times a year) for example a RAV4 Prime that has no option for indoor parking, according to its owner has had no significant cold related issues in 1 1/2 winters although experiencing reduced range. This sort of weather is not atypical for large parts of Canada as you'll see from posts in this and other forums.

Mitsubishi in their 2023 model and beyond has deleted battery heaters for reasons known to themselves-puzzling because having been a pioneer in the use of PHEV technology the company previously included them as basic equipment. In fact they marketed the 2023 as having a battery heater as standard equipment, when it did not.

 

[PHEV07]

One thing that I'm really struggling with, especially as a person who lives in an area where the temperature rarely falls below zero...

If you live somewhere, where the overnight temperatures fall below minus thirty celcius, why is your car parked outside?

I would have assumed that heated car covers, or insulated garages, or something, would be standard operating procedure in those extremes.

I had owned a 2018 which I had upgraded to a 2022 which I then traded up to the 2024 GT on April 8, 2024. All were Outlander PHEVs GTs.

During the time that I was driving both the 2018 and 2022 we did get Temperatures that were lower than -30'C and several days went to as low as -40'C. Both were parked outside and plugged in so that I could warm up the Cab with the Resitive heater before Remotely starting the ICE and never once did I have any issues starting the car or driving in these low temperatures.

I do recall one evening when I went to an Electric Vehicle Association Meeting in 2019 when it did reach -41'C without windchill. My 2018 was parked 3 hrs and although the ICE chugged a bit, it did start and I was able to drive home.

Additionally, for the last 6 years I have been going to Mexico for 2 weeks then in the last 4 years for 4 weeks and was able leave my car fully Charged but unplugged, because I knew that the car would keep the Battery warm when the ambient temperature dropped to -20'C because the Battery Management System kept the Main Battery Safely Warm

The 2023 to 2025 have no Built in Battery Heater so the car has trouble keeping the Battery warm and may fail to start or allowed to be charged when the temperatures drop lower than -30'C.

The dealer did install a Block Heater for the ICE but it has no effect in keeping the Main Battery warm, which of course is what starts the ICE

 

[Grandad]

I had owned a 2018 which I had upgraded to a 2022 which I then traded up to the 2024 GT on April 8, 2024. All were Outlander PHEVs GTs.

During the time that I was driving both the 2018 and 2022 we did get Temperatures that were lower than -30'C and several days went to as low as -40'C. Both were parked outside and plugged in so that I could warm up the Cab with the Resitive heater before Remotely starting the ICE and never once did I have any issues starting the car or driving in these low temperatures.

I do recall one evening when I went to an Electric Vehicle Association Meeting in 2019 when it did reach -41'C without windchill. My 2018 was parked 3 hrs and although the ICE chugged a bit, it did start and I was able to drive home.

Additionally, for the last 6 years I have been going to Mexico for 2 weeks then in the last 4 years for 4 weeks and was able leave my car fully Charged but unplugged, because I knew that the car would keep the Battery warm when the ambient temperature dropped to -20'C because the Battery Management System kept the Main Battery Safely Warm

The 2023 to 2025 have no Built in Battery Heater so the car has trouble keeping the Battery warm and may fail to start or allowed to be charged when the temperatures drop lower than -30'C.

The dealer did install a Block Heater for the ICE but it has no effect in keeping the Main Battery warm, which of course is what starts the ICE

Good reply-good, relevant real world experience . I can imagine it's hard for AndyInOz to imagine on the ground conditions in our part of the world as it is for me to imagine living somewhere that doesn't go below zero... heck, for 5 months of the year we dispense with the "minus" reference and just go with the number and if the temp. gets to zero here it's shockingly warm.

Thoughts Andy?

 

[Arian]

One thing that I'm really struggling with, especially as a person who lives in an area where the temperature rarely falls below zero...

If you live somewhere, where the overnight temperatures fall below minus thirty celcius, why is your car parked outside?

I would have assumed that heated car covers, or insulated garages, or something, would be standard operating procedure in those extremes.

As our Canadian friend said quite well, its not a given in all parts of the world. and here in Finland, even in the city people who arent paying 2k a month for their appartments are lucky to have a parking spot at all.

Where i live, we live in actual wooden cabins, at best we have an old barn to park in and you wanna start insulating and heating that?

So the short of it is that these cars just arent very well suited for my climate. Wich i wish i had known before taking a 5 year loan on one.

Dont get me wrong, my car is holding up well so far, but i wont buy another outlander for as long as i live here because wathever i save on taxes and fuel i have lost on the purchase price since at this rate i doubt the car will live another 5 years trough this climate without investing a ton more money.

Not entirely blaming mitsu or the dealership ofcourse, should have educated myself better.

Not having battery heating at least when plugged in tho? Yea i had assumed that to be just standard for any electric sold here. Shoulda checked that

 

[ronnieracoon]

As our Canadian friend said quite well, its not a given in all parts of the world. and here in Finland, even in the city people who arent paying 2k a month for their appartments are lucky to have a parking spot at all.

Where i live, we live in actual wooden cabins, at best we have an old barn to park in and you wanna start insulating and heating that?

So the short of it is that these cars just arent very well suited for my climate. Wich i wish i had known before taking a 5 year loan on one.

Dont get me wrong, my car is holding up well so far, but i wont buy another outlander for as long as i live here because wathever i save on taxes and fuel i have lost on the purchase price since at this rate i doubt the car will live another 5 years trough this climate without investing a ton more money.

Not entirely blaming mitsu or the dealership ofcourse, should have educated myself better.

Not having battery heating at least when plugged in tho? Yea i had assumed that to be just standard for any electric sold here. Shoulda checked that

Why do people who live in critical fire prone zones not
have their homes fireproofed? No one can predict or pay for that kind of prevention.
That being said, in Montreal I can count on 2 fingers the times that temps fell to -30C in the last 4 years. You enjoy the vehicle until there's a problem. I think we're over thinking this cold start issue. My opinion.

 

[ronnieracoon]

As our Canadian friend said quite well, its not a given in all parts of the world. and here in Finland, even in the city people who arent paying 2k a month for their appartments are lucky to have a parking spot at all.

Where i live, we live in actual wooden cabins, at best we have an old barn to park in and you wanna start insulating and heating that?

So the short of it is that these cars just arent very well suited for my climate. Wich i wish i had known before taking a 5 year loan on one.

Dont get me wrong, my car is holding up well so far, but i wont buy another outlander for as long as i live here because wathever i save on taxes and fuel i have lost on the purchase price since at this rate i doubt the car will live another 5 years trough this climate without investing a ton more money.

Not entirely blaming mitsu or the dealership ofcourse, should have educated myself better.

Not having battery heating at least when plugged in tho? Yea i had assumed that to be just standard for any electric sold here. Shoulda checked that

Arian, mitsu's are built tough. It will last. But my question is this. You live in a Nordic country as I do. How many - 30c days have you experienced in the last 5 years? That will tell the tale if you can't charge it at night