Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[PHEV07]

We'll, it's finally drop down to -20 here in Toronto. Actually, not till tomorrow (Fri) and then till the end of Sunday. We park the 2024 Outlander outside, so I'll keep it plugged in continually unless we're using it. I don't anticipate any issues, but I'll let you all, sorry, y'all know how it goes.
It didn't need plugging in at -12, but who knows?

I bought a longer charging cable from Amazon so we didn't have to back in all the time to get the cable to reach. It's a 25 footer and I mounted it low on the garage wall so it goes under the garage door without losing much length. It's a thicker cable and it appears to be charging the car a bit faster, but that's probably my imagination considering that the cable just runs a battery charger that charges the battery.
I assume a fast charger charges the battery directly.

Yes please keep us updated.

Plz take photos of the Battery Temperature. To see where on tge bar it is at -20'C

It is currently-21'C here in Winnipeg and going down to -25'C early in the morning. 5Am to 7am

I do not plan on plugging car in tonight and will see what the Battery Temperature gauge shows in the morning.

Andre

 

[tyleriv]

As an update, I've been experiencing temperatures of -20C to -8C. During this time I've kept the car outside and plugged in over night. The low power warning has been present most of these sessions < -15C. My EV driving ratio has dropped from high 90's to mid 40's and thus most of my driving has been using the ICE as a power source. Preheating of the cabin has been of no utility during these cold temperatures as the heat pump can't seem to overcome this 35C (i.e. -15C ambient to +20C target) temperature differential. Prior to the software update, even in cold weather, and as long as the battery was above the minimum temperature, I could run in EV mode and the ICE would not start. Now it appears that the ICE will start up with any cabin heating request when the ambient temperature is lower than say -10C. Perhaps the battery is still too cold to meet certain software thresholds even as the ambient temperature is warming due to its thermal mass.

When the traction battery has been fully charged, I don't see any benefit in keeping the car plugged in from the standpoint maintaining battery temperature (which makes sense).

So, it appears I own an partial PHEV vehicle during the cold months of winter.

Now, I'm given to understand that the heat pump cools the battery during the summer, so I wonder if the heat pump can warm the battery in the winter without any hardware changes? Remember, that a heat pump is bidirectional in its heating/cooling function, I'm sure the heat pump could warm the battery 20C from ambient (e.g. -40C would be warmed to -20C). In this case, even in frigid conditions, the heat pump could be activated while the car is plugged in (like cabin heating is meant to perform), some time before the use of the car in order to insure that the battery is warm enough to be both available (therefore a guaranteed capacity to start the ICE) and effective (elimination of poor charge capacity and possible battery damage). No one complains about having to plug in an ICE in frigid temperatures so keeping a PHEV plugged in and warming through its heat pump is not a big ask. So could it be a software issue to allow the heat pump to warm the battery?

 

[Gord Walden]

I got a call from my dealership for a recall notice to do a software update that is to deal with the extra cold issue on my 2023 PHEV. It took about an hour under warranty.

 

[DougF]

We'll, it's finally drop down to -20 here in Toronto. Actually, not till tomorrow (Fri) and then till the end of Sunday. We park the 2024 Outlander outside, so I'll keep it plugged in continually unless we're using it. I don't anticipate any issues, but I'll let you all, sorry, y'all know how it goes.
It didn't need plugging in at -12, but who knows?

I bought a longer charging cable from Amazon so we didn't have to back in all the time to get the cable to reach. It's a 25 footer and I mounted it low on the garage wall so it goes under the garage door without losing much length. It's a thicker cable and it appears to be charging the car a bit faster, but that's probably my imagination considering that the cable just runs a battery charger that charges the battery.
I assume a fast charger charges the battery directly.

Were you using the forecast quoting the wind chill temperature? I think the non-wind chill forecast would determine the coldest the battery would get although a low wind chill temperature will speed up the cooling. I'm in Toronto too. The Weather Network forecast I just looked at has a low of -17°C Saturday night

I wish the vehicle would display the battery temperature in digital format or make it available to a device plugged into the ODB2 port.

 

[PHEV07]

As an update, I've been experiencing temperatures of -20C to -8C. During this time I've kept the car outside and plugged in over night. The low power warning has been present most of these sessions < -15C. My EV driving ratio has dropped from high 90's to mid 40's and thus most of my driving has been using the ICE as a power source. Preheating of the cabin has been of no utility during these cold temperatures as the heat pump can't seem to overcome this 35C (i.e. -15C ambient to +20C target) temperature differential. Prior to the software update, even in cold weather, and as long as the battery was above the minimum temperature, I could run in EV mode and the ICE would not start. Now it appears that the ICE will start up with any cabin heating request when the ambient temperature is lower than say -10C. Perhaps the battery is still too cold to meet certain software thresholds even as the ambient temperature is warming due to its thermal mass.

When the traction battery has been fully charged, I don't see any benefit in keeping the car plugged in from the standpoint maintaining battery temperature (which makes sense).

So, it appears I own an partial PHEV vehicle during the cold months of winter.

Now, I'm given to understand that the heat pump cools the battery during the summer, so I wonder if the heat pump can warm the battery in the winter without any hardware changes? Remember, that a heat pump is bidirectional in its heating/cooling function, I'm sure the heat pump could warm the battery 20C from ambient (e.g. -40C would be warmed to -20C). In this case, even in frigid conditions, the heat pump could be activated while the car is plugged in (like cabin heating is meant to perform), some time before the use of the car in order to insure that the battery is warm enough to be both available (therefore a guaranteed capacity to start the ICE) and effective (elimination of poor charge capacity and possible battery damage). No one complains about having to plug in an ICE in frigid temperatures so keeping a PHEV plugged in and warming through its heat pump is not a big ask. So could it be a software issue to allow the heat pump to warm the battery?

Really sad that this Software upgrade has done nothing to improve the operation of the 2023 to 2025 Outlander PHEV

As you have noted the Heat Pump is not able to keep the Cab very warm.

I found that on my 2024, when the outside Temp is -12'C or so, the vent Air Temp barely reaches 20'C

At outside Temp of-14'C even though the Heat Pump is working it is not able to produce any heat at tge air vents higher than 6'C.

When the outside Temperature of lower than -15'C the Heat Pump no longer operates therefor it can not warm up the Drive Battery.

Even when the outside Temperature is say -10'C and there is air vent Temp of 20'C, the Drive Battery never heats up. It only heats up a bit when driving because the ICE which usually runs at these temps charges the Battery and some heat produced while driving the EV Motors but not much.

If the battery is full and if it is Plugged in, the Battery does not heat up because there is no current going thru the Battry because the Battery is already fully Charged.

These cars need to be recalled and either a Battery Heater is installed in the Battery Pack or the Battery Pack needs to be replaced with one that has a Battery Heater.

Also the Heat Pump is absolutely useless at temperatures lower than -15'C. These cars should get a PTC back for the Cab.

My 2024 operated great from April 8, 2024 till the 1st week of November but when the temperatures started dropping lower than 0'C it works best as an ICE Vehicle except that we cannot heat the Cab very well with just the Heat Pump u till the Engine coolant warms up.

I plan on suffering thru this winter. Car will operate very well when it warms up but in all really, I will be looking for a different vehicle for next Winter.

Probably not an Outlander PHEV because Mitsubishi has not only refused to fix this cold weather issue but has now released the 2025 with the same problem. Namely with no Battery Heater in the Battery Pack and no PTC cab Heater to take over when the Heat Pump shuts off.

As a consolation, Mitsubishi could at least have allowed us to remotely start the ICE whenever the Temperature drops down to the frigid zone but did they? No.

It is really quite sad that Mitsubishi has not only designed but has release a vehicle that is not suitable for cold climates,
really sad

 

[Grandad]

As an update, I've been experiencing temperatures of -20C to -8C. During this time I've kept the car outside and plugged in over night. The low power warning has been present most of these sessions < -15C. My EV driving ratio has dropped from high 90's to mid 40's and thus most of my driving has been using the ICE as a power source. Preheating of the cabin has been of no utility during these cold temperatures as the heat pump can't seem to overcome this 35C (i.e. -15C ambient to +20C target) temperature differential. Prior to the software update, even in cold weather, and as long as the battery was above the minimum temperature, I could run in EV mode and the ICE would not start. Now it appears that the ICE will start up with any cabin heating request when the ambient temperature is lower than say -10C. Perhaps the battery is still too cold to meet certain software thresholds even as the ambient temperature is warming due to its thermal mass.

When the traction battery has been fully charged, I don't see any benefit in keeping the car plugged in from the standpoint maintaining battery temperature (which makes sense).

So, it appears I own an partial PHEV vehicle during the cold months of winter.

Now, I'm given to understand that the heat pump cools the battery during the summer, so I wonder if the heat pump can warm the battery in the winter without any hardware changes? Remember, that a heat pump is bidirectional in its heating/cooling function, I'm sure the heat pump could warm the battery 20C from ambient (e.g. -40C would be warmed to -20C). In this case, even in frigid conditions, the heat pump could be activated while the car is plugged in (like cabin heating is meant to perform), some time before the use of the car in order to insure that the battery is warm enough to be both available (therefore a guaranteed capacity to start the ICE) and effective (elimination of poor charge capacity and possible battery damage). No one complains about having to plug in an ICE in frigid temperatures so keeping a PHEV plugged in and warming through its heat pump is not a big ask. So could it be a software issue to allow the heat pump to warm the battery?

You are right - there is no value in the vehicle being plugged in once fully charged, but only trivial value in having it plugged in with less than a full charge as far as maintaining battery temperature.

The heat pump is not capable of warming the battery the way the vehicle is engineered. Mitsubishi removed the battery heating unit in '23 although in promotional literature indicated that it was standard equipment for cold weather operation.

If you've read through the history of posts to this thread you'll be aware of the pending class actions related to Mitsubishi selling this vehicle, unfit for purpose in areas where it is sold. If you're not aware search "Mitsubishi battery class action"

Best regards

 

[Grandad]

Really sad that this Software upgrade has done nothing to improve the operation of the 2023 to 2025 Outlander PHEV

As you have noted the Heat Pump is not able to keep the Cab very warm.

I found that on my 2024, when the outside Temp is -12'C or so, the vent Air Temp barely reaches 20'C

At outside Temp of-14'C even though the Heat Pump is working it is not able to produce any heat at tge air vents higher than 6'C.

When the outside Temperature of lower than -15'C the Heat Pump no longer operates therefor it can not warm up the Drive Battery.

Even when the outside Temperature is say -10'C and there is air vent Temp of 20'C, the Drive Battery never heats up. It only heats up a bit when driving because the ICE which usually runs at these temps charges the Battery and some heat produced while driving the EV Motors but not much.

If the battery is full and if it is Plugged in, the Battery does not heat up because there is no current going thru the Battry because the Battery is already fully Charged.

These cars need to be recalled and either a Battery Heater is installed in the Battery Pack or the Battery Pack needs to be replaced with one that has a Battery Heater.

Also the Heat Pump is absolutely useless at temperatures lower than -15'C. These cars should get a PTC back for the Cab.

My 2024 operated great from April 8, 2024 till the 1st week of November but when the temperatures started dropping lower than 0'C it works best as an ICE Vehicle except that we cannot heat the Cab very well with just the Heat Pump u till the Engine coolant warms up.

I plan on suffering thru this winter. Car will operate very well when it warms up but in all really, I will be looking for a different vehicle for next Winter.

Probably not an Outlander PHEV because Mitsubishi has not only refused to fix this cold weather issue but has now released the 2025 with the same problem. Namely with no Battery Heater in the Battery Pack and no PTC cab Heater to take over when the Heat Pump shuts off.

As a consolation, Mitsubishi could at least have allowed us to remotely start the ICE whenever the Temperature drops down to the frigid zone but did they? No.

It is really quite sad that Mitsubishi has not only designed but has release a vehicle that is not suitable for cold climates,
really sad

All absolutely true.

I would add not only is it sad (actually long past sad) that Mitsu dropped the battery heater in '23 even though advertising that it was standard equipment, but then continued to continue to sell essentially the same vehicle in '24 and then '25 without making an honest effort to alert buyers that the units would not operate reliably in areas where it was sold. Furthermore the company made the pretense of addressing the cold start/operation issue with an essentially useless software update.All this said - Mitsu continues to market the Outlander PHEV based on its supposed dependability and reliability.

I can only hope that the pending class actions in Canada and the US will include significant punitive damages for Mitsubishi's disregard for its customers.

I hope the weather makes your suffering less than it might be this winter. Regards to you and othere in the same boat.

 

[Lon12]

Has anyone looked at taking them to small claims court? Could you not try to get reimbursed for car rental or lost wages during the no start cold snaps?

 

[littlescrote]

I've not read any of the thread but it seems obvious to me that you time your battery charge to end just as you want to leave in the morning so that the battery is at its warmest. Although that may not suit a time of use tariff or sporadic use.

 

[PHEV07]

Has anyone looked at taking them to small claims court? Could you not try to get reimbursed for car rental or lost wages during the no start cold snaps?

Most Small Claims Courts are capped at between $5,000 and $10,000 anywhere in Canada, not sure of the cap limit in any of the 50 States of the USA.

Edit:

Just found out that as of Jan 1 2025. The maximum Small Claims Court Limit will $20,000
Much to low for the cost of our cars at $60,000 plus

 

[twiggy144]

Most Small clairs Courts are are capped at between $5,000 and $10,000 anywhere in Canada, not sure of the cap limit in any of tge 50 States of the USA.

$15000 in Québec.

 

[PHEV07]

I've not read any of the thread but it seems obvious to me that you time your battery charge to end just as you want to leave in the morning so that the battery is at its warmest. Although that may not suit a time of use tariff or sporadic use.

I have checked the Battery Temperature in the car as it is charging. Once the tempturature is lower than -15'C even while Charging the Bar gauge temperature barely moves when using Level 1.

At Level 2 charging the gauge does increase a bit but at -20'C I see little to no temp increase and starting tge car in EV Mode is not possible because ths Battery is too cold.

I will post some photos once the weather cools off again

Currently tge outside temp has been warmer than-10'C.

 

[drwho]

Yes please keep us updated.

Plz take photos of the Battery Temperature. To see where on tge bar it is at -20'C

It is currently-21'C here in Winnipeg and going down to -25'C early in the morning. 5Am to 7am

I do not plan on plugging car in tonight and will see what the Battery Temperature gauge shows in the morning.

Andre

 

[drwho]

Yes please keep us updated.

Plz take photos of the Battery Temperature. To see where on tge bar it is at -20'C

It is currently-21'C here in Winnipeg and going down to -25'C early in the morning. 5Am to 7am

I do not plan on plugging car in tonight and will see what the Battery Temperature gauge shows in the morning.

Andre

I went out late morning today and the outside temp was -13. The car had been plugged in from midnight to 11:30 am. I don't know where the battery temp indicator is, but I am attaching a pic of the dash at the time.
The car started and operated as normal ... no problem, so that's good. it went down to about -18 last night.

 

[PHEV07]

I went out late morning today and the outside temp was -13. The car had been plugged in from midnight to 11:30 am. I don't know where the battery temp indicator is, but I am attaching a pic of the dash at the time.
The car started and operated as normal ... no problem, so that's good. it went down to about -18 last night.
View attachment 1729

Thanks for the photo Dave.

49km on a full Charge at -13'C is not too bad.

Should be dropping to about 40kms range as the Temperatures stays below -20'C but unfortunately the EV Mode will not be available at these temperufures but at least we can use our Ceramic Heaters to help warm up the car till the Engine coolant warms up.

I am not at the car right now to direct you to the Battery Temperature Screen, sorry.

When you are on this screen, scroll the Thumb wheel on the left side of the steering wheel up or down till you get to the Battery Temperature screen.

If still not visible click the left or right Arrow on either side of the Thumb Wheel till you see the car or "i" icon and again scroll the Thumb Wheel till you find tge Battery Temperature Switch.

You should be getting our warmer weather soon. We are going up to -1 or -2'C for the Holidays.

Oh and by the way

Merry Christmas to you and yours and may you have a Happy New Year

Andre

 

[PHEV07]

$15000 in Québec.

Thank you

Just edited my post.

As of Jan 1, 2025 the Maximum Claim amount will be $20,000.

 

[drwho]

Thanks for the photo Dave.

49km on a full Charge at -13'C is not too bad.

Should be dropping to about 40kms range as the Temperatures stays below -20'C but unfortunately the EV Mode will not be available at these temperufures but at least we can use our Ceramic Heaters to help warm up the car till the Engine coolant warms up.

I am not at the car right now to direct you to the Battery Temperature Screen, sorry.

When you are on this screen, scroll the Thumb wheel on the left side of the steering wheel up or down till you get to the Battery Temperature screen.

If still not visible click the left or right Arrow on either side of the Thumb Wheel till you see the car or "i" icon and again scroll the Thumb Wheel till you find tge Battery Temperature Switch.

You should be getting our warmer weather soon. We are going up to -1 or -2'C for the Holidays.

Oh and by the way

Merry Christmas to you and yours and may you have a Happy New Year

Andre

Thanks so much, Andre. I'll look for the battery temp screen when it warms up mon-tues. I actually haven't had much time in the car as my wife is working till the end of Jan when she retires and she is always driving it. Otherwise I would know more about it.
And we seem to be getting about 50kms when it's this cold, and 60-70kms when it's around zero. That's not bad considering the literature said 60kms in general. When I read 60, In assumed about 50, then in the warm weather, I was getting close to 90kms. So overall, I'm fairly happy as the temp only goes down to -20 here now, thanks to global warming.

And a very Merry Christmas to you and your family, Andre, and hope you have a great New Year.
Cheers,
Dave