Is Outlander the only PHEV without EV button?

[PolishPilot]

Plug-in doesn't automatically imply it's a pure EV. It usually means you simply can charge it from an external source. How it utilizes that power is still completely up to the engineers (and to some extent, business strategists).

You might be right, but I will quote again Gunther's witty post from the other forum:

This is going to be great if they start with cities forbidden for fuel engines as in Germany:
"Sorry, officer, I don't have a switch to turn of the engine, it turns on by itself..."

Looks like I'm stuck with a hybrid that uses MORE fuel than a normal car....

 

[puckernutter]

Sorry to break the wittyness, but fossile free zones will surely come, however it will then be regulated so that cars can't end up in such a situation. Car manufacturers will simply have to abide to legal requirements and make sure that there is such a function as pure EV. Or maybe even forced EV with GPS control within certain coordinates? There are endless imaginative scenarios, but legal requirements is what ultimately drives tech development.

I wouldn't say that my PHEV uses more fuel. This morning it was -5C, I used 20 minutes of preconditioning heating, then drove off with 19 degrees set in compartment. No AC, just heating. ICE was running the first 10 minutes. My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

Haven't found a diesel or petrol car at 2 tonnes that can do that yet.

 

[maby]

Sorry to break the wittyness, but fossile free zones will surely come, however it will then be regulated so that cars can't end up in such a situation. Car manufacturers will simply have to abide to legal requirements and make sure that there is such a function as pure EV. Or maybe even forced EV with GPS control within certain coordinates? There are endless imaginative scenarios, but legal requirements is what ultimately drives tech development.

I wouldn't say that my PHEV uses more fuel. This morning it was -5C, I used 20 minutes of preconditioning heating, then drove off with 19 degrees set in compartment. No AC, just heating. ICE was running the first 10 minutes. My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

Haven't found a diesel or petrol car at 2 tonnes that can do that yet.

Exactly! The Outlander compares very well with our other car which is a 4.5 litre Landcruiser. My son used to drive a little Suzuki Alto which easily returned figures better than 60mpg - better than the Outlander in normal use - but it was a tiny hatchback. It is unrealistic to expect a 2 tonne 4WD to compete with such tiny things.

 

[PolishPilot]

... My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

Haven't found a diesel or petrol car at 2 tonnes that can do that yet.

Sorry, but 0,18l/km = 18l/100km = 15 mpg UK = 13 mpg US !

I have seen several diesels better than that.

 

[maby]

28km in the winter is probably just about the worst scenario for an Outlander - like any car, its fuel consumption is poor for the first few miles because everything is cold - engine, tyres, lubricants - as it heats up, it improves. I do 70 or 80 mile - over 100km - trips a couple of times per week in ours - the measured fuel economy around the mid point is usually below 30mpg, but it is showing 40mpg when I arrive at my destination. That is pretty good for a large 4WD. When I take my wife to the station in the morning, it is usually reporting 12mpg when I get back home - but I've travelled less than 2 miles, so I really don't care. It's the 20 mile journeys in the winter that are a bit painful - not far enough to heat the car up, but far enough that they can burn a fair amount of petrol.

 

[puckernutter]

... My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

Haven't found a diesel or petrol car at 2 tonnes that can do that yet.

Sorry, but 0,18l/km = 18l/100km = 15 mpg UK = 13 mpg US !

I have seen several diesels better than that.

lol, meant to say 0,18l/10km naturally.

 

[PolishPilot]

28km in the winter is probably just about the worst scenario for an Outlander - like any car, its fuel consumption is poor for the first few miles because everything is cold - engine, tyres, lubricants - as it heats up, it improves. I do 70 or 80 mile - over 100km - trips a couple of times per week in ours - the measured fuel economy around the mid point is usually below 30mpg, but it is showing 40mpg when I arrive at my destination. That is pretty good for a large 4WD. When I take my wife to the station in the morning, it is usually reporting 12mpg when I get back home - but I've travelled less than 2 miles, so I really don't care. It's the 20 mile journeys in the winter that are a bit painful - not far enough to heat the car up, but far enough that they can burn a fair amount of petrol.

Fully agree, the critical range is between 10 and 20 miles. The initial "heating" run of the ICE
is long enough to mix the mpg equation, and too short to take advantage of the full battery.

 

[PolishPilot]

... My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

Haven't found a diesel or petrol car at 2 tonnes that can do that yet.

Sorry, but 0,18l/km = 18l/100km = 15 mpg UK = 13 mpg US !

I have seen several diesels better than that.

lol, meant to say 0,18l/10km naturally.

That's more realistic.

Nevertheless, under similar conditions and assumptions I never got better than 2.5l/10km.
But, it's, maybe, my heavy foot.

 

[anko]

It's funny. People want to drive without fuel, ie. they actually want an EV. But they buy a hybrid, and are surprised when the ICE is running... :roll:

Hybrid technology is simple technology that basically allows you to downsize engines in normal cars. Please have a close look at the badges on the front fenders and the tailgate. Your car is called PHEV, as in Plugin Hybrid EV. So, an EV that can also run as a normal car. Not the other way around.

And when it does run as a normal car (uses there engine) and there is good reason for it, that's all fine. But every now and then it iruns as a normal car while apparently, there is no good reason for it. Please forgive me for being surprised / annoyed about that.

 

[PolishPilot]

It's funny. People want to drive without fuel, ie. they actually want an EV. But they buy a hybrid, and are surprised when the ICE is running... :roll:

Hybrid technology is simple technology that basically allows you to downsize engines in normal cars. Please have a close look at the badges on the front fenders and the tailgate. Your car is called PHEV, as in Plugin Hybrid EV. So, an EV that can also run as a normal car. Not the other way around.

And when it does run as a normal car (uses there engine) and there is good reason for it, that's all fine. But every now and then it iruns as a normal car while apparently, there is no good reason for it. Please forgive me for being surprised / annoyed about that.

Very valid points.

There was a reason why Chevrolet Volt, using almost exactly
the same operational principle as the Outlander PHEV,
is called EV RX, Electric Vehicle with Range Extender, and not a "hybrid".

Our Outlander could be also easily called EV RX, not PHEV, the combined power
of the electric motors by far exceeds the power of the ICE, the same like Volt,
not the other way around, like most hybrids, and is capable of full speed powered
by just electric motors.

She is an Electric Vehicle.

 

[anko]

Didn't any of you test drive it? It would take less than a minute sitting in the driver seat to check for the presence of an "EV" button - surprise, surprise - there isn't one! There's no rocket launchers or passenger ejector seat either - do you hear me complaining that the salesman misled me?

I've ordered mine in december 2012 and first models where available for test drives only after I received mine end of 2013. So, no I didn't.

Didn't any of you test drive it? It would take less than a minute sitting in the driver seat to check for the presence of an "EV" button - surprise, surprise - there isn't one!

Why is the absence of an EV button so important? I am not asking for an EV button. I am asking for a software update that makes it operator as an Hybrid EV. Unless I willingly do something that causes it to operate differently. Like deplete the battery, hit Save or Charge or floor it. But turning on the heater should not be one of those causes. Not on a model with electric heater. Especially as the dealer told me I HAD to get one with electric heater, in order to be independent of the ICE.

There's no rocket launchers or passenger ejector seat either - do you hear me complaining that the salesman misled me?

Silly comparison. I'll give you another silly comparison. Imagine your car had a tendency to drift off to the left or right, without you turning the wheel. You would probably go to the dealership to have it fixed. Imagine the dealer asking you: "Do you see a button for going straight ahead on your test drive? No? Then you could have known.".

 

[anko]

ICE was running the first 10 minutes. My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

0,18 liter/km = 18 liter/100 km = 1 liter / 4.5 km or so. Not particularly good. I guess you meant 1,8 liters per 100 km.

But even then, you measured this over only 28 km. In order to meet the promise, the car must be able to present that result over 77 km without charging in between. Not just 28.

Either way, for a 28 km drive at -5, it is not so bad. But now, imagine your trip would have been only 10 km. Then your result would have been 5,0 liter / 100 km (as all fuel was burned in the first 10 km), where it easily could have been 0.0. Forget about advertisement, how can you be happy with that?

 

[jdsx]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before (I did go back to the top of the thread but lost the will to live somewhere on page 4 :lol: ), but I see from another forum that, regarding the LEAF Eco button, 'I think it restricts climate control to 3kw'. Clearly the LEAF doesn't need an EV button :lol: but a) would something like this help us obtain what we're after (excluding maby, obvs), and b) would/could it be made available via a software update? Discuss! :mrgreen:

 

[anko]

28km in the winter is probably just about the worst scenario for an Outlander.

Shorter than 28 km it gets even worse. But it doesn't have to be. As long as you can shut off the engine. Than it would be the best scenario.

I do 70 or 80 mile - over 100km - trips a couple of times per week in ours - the measured fuel economy around the mid point is usually below 30mpg, but it is showing 40mpg when I arrive at my destination. That is pretty good for a large 4WD.

So most of your driving is not was the car was designed for anyway. No wonder, you don't care.

When I take my wife to the station in the morning, it is usually reporting 12mpg when I get back home - but I've travelled less than 2 miles, so I really don't care.

Not even about your engine making an unnecessary cold start without being able to warm up properly? It is known that these short trips are relatively bad for your engine.

It's the 20 mile journeys in the winter that are a bit painful - not far enough to heat the car up, but far enough that they can burn a fair amount of petrol.

Now imagine that most of your trips were these 20 mile trips. Would you care then? My typical trip is about 16 miles.

Conclusion: for your typical driving pattern, it may not add much value. But can we agree that for other patterns, the is much to gain?

 

[maby]

...

Why is the absence of an EV button so important? I am not asking for an EV button. ....

....

The title of this thread (which, admittedly, you didn't start) is "Is Outlander the only PHEV without EV button?"

 

[puckernutter]

ICE was running the first 10 minutes. My 28km drive to work stopped at eventually at 0,18 liters/km, as advertised.

0,18 liter/km = 18 liter/100 km = 1 liter / 4.5 km or so. Not particularly good. I guess you meant 1,8 liters per 100 km.

But even then, you measured this over only 28 km. In order to meet the promise, the car must be able to present that result over 77 km without charging in between. Not just 28.

Either way, for a 28 km drive at -5, it is not so bad. But now, imagine your trip would have been only 10 km. Then your result would have been 5,0 liter / 100 km (as all fuel was burned in the first 10 km), where it easily could have been 0.0. Forget about advertisement, how can you be happy with that?

Yes, 0,18/10km.

I'm happy with that, because the same trip in a diesel car of that size and weight, let's say a Volvo XC60, would give me about 0,6/10km.

It's not all economical for me, I like the idea that I don't use as much fossile fuel as a "normal" car, and the electricity I buy for my house comes from wind farms.

 

[maby]

...

Either way, for a 28 km drive at -5, it is not so bad. But now, imagine your trip would have been only 10 km. Then your result would have been 5,0 liter / 100 km (as all fuel was burned in the first 10 km), where it easily could have been 0.0. Forget about advertisement, how can you be happy with that?

Because 10km at 5l/100km comes out at 0.5l - 50 pence - not enough to worry about. The 12mpg I get taking my wife to the station is terrible in absolute terms, but I'm driving less than 2 miles and it is only in the winter. It is more than compensated by the 55mpg I was averaging over a whole week's use in the summer. I have calculated that the car should give us around 50mpg averaged over the year - possibly slightly better - that is far better than our old Landcruiser for a car of comparable size and adequate off-road capabilities.

 

[maby]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before (I did go back to the top of the thread but lost the will to live somewhere on page 4 :lol: ), but I see from another forum that, regarding the LEAF Eco button, 'I think it restricts climate control to 3kw'. Clearly the LEAF doesn't need an EV button :lol: but a) would something like this help us obtain what we're after (excluding maby, obvs), and b) would/could it be made available via a software update? Discuss! :mrgreen:

That is what the "Eco" button does.

And, by the way, I have no problem with people wanting changes to the car, just with outrage that it does not behave the way they wanted when it is reasonably easy to predict how it would behave. I've been driving Priuses for more than ten years - the Outlander behaves exactly as I had expected before we bought it - and that was on the strength of reading the brochure.

Actually, having just been out in the Outlander to take my wife to the next town, it occurs to me that our previous Prius ownership is possibly the root cause of the difference between my view of the Outlander and that of Anko and PolishPilot. We bought the Outlander expecting to get a larger, faster, 4WD Prius - and that is what we have. As a bonus, it is capable of quite a few more miles on battery than the Prius under the right circumstances - hence, we are satisfied with the car as-is. I certainly would not refuse some additional electric range if it were offered free of charge, but the car is currently meeting my expectations.

 

[anko]

...

Why is the absence of an EV button so important? I am not asking for an EV button. ....

....

The title of this thread (which, admittedly, you didn't start) is "Is Outlander the only PHEV without EV button?"

Lets ask the guy: PolishPilot, what do you really want? Just a usable EV Only mode or does it have to be an EV button?

 

[anko]

It's not all economical for me, I like the idea that I don't use as much fossile fuel as a "normal" car, and the electricity I buy for my house comes from wind farms.

Solar panels for me.

I like the idea to use as little fossil fuel as possible, rather than just 'not as much as my previous car'. Burning fuel in a way that adds value is one thing. Wasting fuel in a way that doesn't add value is in my opinion sort of a crime against nature. Especially if it can be fixed easily.

Yesterday evening, I made two trips of about 23 km each and was able to charge in-between (at the expense of paying for the charge + about 4.50 EURO parking fee, where I could have parked for free outside the garage). My departure from home was difficult to plan, so although I was able to pre-heat, it was not long enough. On the way out the engine ran for about 2 km. Then, apparently the brain of the car decide the electric heater was sufficiently hot (the heater still uses a lot of kW weven when the engine is running) and stopped the engine. But the engine never reached the temperature at which the valve would have been opened. Therefor, it was a total waste of fuel and an unnecessary cold start.