Is Outlander the only PHEV without EV button?

[anko]

... which is what this post is about, i.e. the EV Button...

If you want to participate in the discussion, please try to keep up with it . PolishPilot who started this thread clarified his intentions earlier:

...
So if the engine would not fire as long as you keep ECO mode enabled (provided the battery is not flat), that would be fine too? Or if you had to engage Save or charge mode before the engine would start?

You can call it "Eco", "Pure", "EV", whatever you wish.

It just have to prevent ICE from starting.

On top of all other arguments mentioned before,
the no ICE zones in the cities are there and will be spreading.
You have to be able to stop ICE from running, this way or another.

If Mitsubishi were able to retrofit a mechanical switch (which is what this post is about, i.e. the EV Button) then there is absolutely no reason why it couldn't apply to a GX3 as there are situations which make the GX3 engage its ICE besides heating, just like the GX4.

Again, this topic is about not using the ICE for heating purposes. If you don't see why the outcome would be rather different for GX3 than for GX4 models .... well :roll:

I just don't believe that there will be an option on any of the existing Mark 1 PHEV Models to accommodate this ...

When I get into my car and hit the Power button without pushing the break pedal (READY light doesn't come on) then electric heater works as I would hope. As soon as I hit the Power button again, this time while pushing the break pedal, the READY light turns on and the engine starts. Not what I would hope. This behaviour is pure software. The fact that you don't believe it can be fixed is noted.

There are things about a GX3 that are annoying, however I purchased the vehicle "As Is" knowing what it could and couldn't do and therefore don't feel the need to go on complaining about what I haven't got.

Like maby, you have proven to be smarter than the rest of us (or not). Still, I don't see why this should stop others from aiming for more.

The complaining done in this thread is not so much about the PHEV not having an EV only mode, but about guys that don't have an interest in this feature but keep saying that guys that do should be quiet about it.

 

[maby]

It's not only the heater, you know. I went to the shops this lunchtime and it was so warm here that I had the heating off and the sunroof open! Following this thread, I was keeping a close eye on the energy flow display and the petrol engine kicked in several times on throttle depression - and this was nothing particularly extravagant - just pulling away off the lights and never going above 30mph and around 50% charge on the battery. The engine on an Outlander is very quiet and it is easy to not notice these brief periods of petrol running in response to power demands.

 

[todgefast]

It's not only the heater, you know. I went to the shops this lunchtime and it was so warm here that I had the heating off and the sunroof open! Following this thread, I was keeping a close eye on the energy flow display and the petrol engine kicked in several times on throttle depression - and this was nothing particularly extravagant - just pulling away off the lights and never going above 30mph and around 50% charge on the battery. The engine on an Outlander is very quiet and it is easy to not notice these brief periods of petrol running in response to power demands.

It is easy to notice, just keep the energy flow display up on one of the LCD screens.

I'm sure if Mitsubishi don't bother to offer a software update to fix the mandatory and ridiculous 'cold-coolant engine warm-up cycle' some clever-clogs can engineer a coolant-bypass temp switch or suchlike to fool the computer into thinking the coolant temp is nice and warm.

It is daft that most of my journeys during the last 2 months or so could easily be completed with 10-20 minute pre-heat and then on the battery alone.
As has been mentioned before, there are tweaks and hoops you can jump through - but a nice option in the car settings menu, disabling engine-heat would be nice!

 

[maby]

It's not only the heater, you know. I went to the shops this lunchtime and it was so warm here that I had the heating off and the sunroof open! Following this thread, I was keeping a close eye on the energy flow display and the petrol engine kicked in several times on throttle depression - and this was nothing particularly extravagant - just pulling away off the lights and never going above 30mph and around 50% charge on the battery. The engine on an Outlander is very quiet and it is easy to not notice these brief periods of petrol running in response to power demands.

It is easy to notice, just keep the energy flow display up on one of the LCD screens.

I'm sure if Mitsubishi don't bother to offer a software update to fix the mandatory and ridiculous 'cold-coolant engine warm-up cycle' some clever-clogs can engineer a coolant-bypass temp switch or suchlike to fool the computer into thinking the coolant temp is nice and warm.

It is daft that most of my journeys during the last 2 months or so could easily be completed with 10-20 minute pre-heat and then on the battery alone.
As has been mentioned before, there are tweaks and hoops you can jump through - but a nice option in the car settings menu, disabling engine-heat would be nice!

I agree that it is easy enough to detect the engine running to drive the heater - that lasts multiple minutes. I had not been taking much notice last autumn, but was surprised today how easy it is to get the engine fired up for a few seconds in response to throttle opening.

 

[anko]

It's not only the heater, you know. I went to the shops this lunchtime and it was so warm here that I had the heating off and the sunroof open! Following this thread, I was keeping a close eye on the energy flow display and the petrol engine kicked in several times on throttle depression - and this was nothing particularly extravagant - just pulling away off the lights and never going above 30mph and around 50% charge on the battery. The engine on an Outlander is very quiet and it is easy to not notice these brief periods of petrol running in response to power demands.

It is easy to notice, just keep the energy flow display up on one of the LCD screens.

I'm sure if Mitsubishi don't bother to offer a software update to fix the mandatory and ridiculous 'cold-coolant engine warm-up cycle' some clever-clogs can engineer a coolant-bypass temp switch or suchlike to fool the computer into thinking the coolant temp is nice and warm.

It is daft that most of my journeys during the last 2 months or so could easily be completed with 10-20 minute pre-heat and then on the battery alone.
As has been mentioned before, there are tweaks and hoops you can jump through - but a nice option in the car settings menu, disabling engine-heat would be nice!

I agree that it is easy enough to detect the engine running to drive the heater - that lasts multiple minutes. I had not been taking much notice last autumn, but was surprised today how easy it is to get the engine fired up for a few seconds in response to throttle opening.

So, the next reason for not admitting that an EV only mode can have added value to many, is the suggestion that the engine kicks in for no reason, even when it is hot (I would say this is even more reason for having an EV only mode). Because of this claim, I think you must have a different notion of "extravagant". Last year, when I was still willing to keep my heater off, I've been able to complete my daily commute without the ICE kicking in once, for weeks in a row. It is very easy to see when the ICE kicks in, even for a short moment, as immediately, the L/100km indication switches from 0.0 to something else. Can't be missed. So, I do know. And yes, you should stay off the left (uh, sorry right) lane at traffic lights. But, I am convinced that if you control your self, you can control the engine.

 

[maby]

...

So, the next reason for not admitting that an EV only mode can have added value to many, is the suggestion that the engine kicks in for no reason, even when it is hot (I would say this is even more reason for having an EV only mode). Because of this claim, I think you must have a different notion of "extravagant". Last year, when I was still willing to keep my heater off, I've been able to complete my daily commute without the ICE kicking in once, for weeks in a row. It is very easy to see when the ICE kicks in, even for a short moment, as immediately, the L/100km indication switches from 0.0 to something else. Can't be missed. So, I do know. And yes, you should stay off the left (uh, sorry right) lane at traffic lights. But, I am convinced that if you control your self, you can control the engine.

Hang on a mo' - I was not commenting on the value an EV only mode may have - just pointing out that the focus is not only on heating - the car kicks up the petrol engine more easily than I had understood in response to power demand. It certainly does not show on the MPG display since the impact on fuel consumption is very small - I'm talking about the engine firing up for five seconds. The MPG display tops out at 99.9mpg and this literally spoonful of petrol will not knock your fuel economy down noticeably - it may register with the display set to L/100km. I actually noticed it from the %EV display, not the fuel consumption - I was driving with the heating off and sunroof open and was surprised to see less than 100% EV - that prompted me to turn on the power flow display and keep an eye on it. Accelerating away from a junction with a 50% full battery kicks up the petrol engine for a few seconds quite often.

 

[anko]

Hang on a mo' - I was not commenting on the value an EV only mode may have

You are right. You weren't. When will you?

... - just pointing out that the focus is not only on heating - the car kicks up the petrol engine more easily than I had understood in response to power demand.

I guess that wasn't in the brochure either :mrgreen:

Either way, in my first communication with Mitsubishi in the Netherlands, my focus was on full EV only mode also, so no ICE for heating and no ICE for driving. Then they said "no can do, as it will be a safety risk when you don't have full power available in emergency situations". I thought that kind'a made sense. My assessment: pushing for full EV only mode will definitively result in ending up empty handed.

But also, it was and is my experience that you have almost full control over "ICE for driving": Be gentle on the throttle and the ICE won't fire. Be rough on the throttle and the ICE will fire. But when it does, it has added value in the sense of extra punch. All I need is a way to "be gentle the heater". And as we know, setting it to 15.5 deg C at an ambient temperature of < 7 deg C is already considered rough.

 

[chasingamy]

My 2015, Outlander PHEV has an EV only button. It took 10 minutes to wire it into the fuel pump fuse and made a great car, a brilliant car.
It would be nice if MMC made a software upgrade available to current owners but why wait?

 

[gwatpe]

My 2015, Outlander PHEV has an EV only button. It took 10 minutes to wire it into the fuel pump fuse and made a great car, a brilliant car.
It would be nice if MMC made a software upgrade available to current owners but why wait?

I will probably achieve an EV only mode, not by disabling the fuel pump, but by using a Sticky button, activated by any one of the press buttons that are relatively easy to access and just make the PHEV believe the petrol tank is empty. I have the sticky SAVE and CHARGE mode buttons cct and this can be programmed to achieve other functins. If we ask MMC for defaults to be changed, we will still have some drivers offside. We need the default settings to be user settable.

 

[anko]

My 2015, Outlander PHEV has an EV only button. It took 10 minutes to wire it into the fuel pump fuse and made a great car, a brilliant car.
It would be nice if MMC made a software upgrade available to current owners but why wait?

And how does that work in terms of "the christmas tree on the dashboard"?

Edit- Just now saw your other post on that subject. Thanks!

 

[chasingamy]

Hello gwatpe,

I would prefer to achieve EV only with the ECO button and remove the switch I put in. I would also like several of the other user definable selections to remain as I put them with a sticky button upgrade similar to what you are/have developed. When you get the EV only mode to work using your sticky button method on a factory button, will you be willing to make a kit and sell it? I for one would buy it.

 

[gwatpe]

I have made an offer, weeks ago now, and have had NO reply, so I have moved on to other projects. Hardly worth the effort for a single person I am afraid. I have had difficulty accessing the ECO button, and I have not yet investigated what is needed to connect wires to the fuel level sensor. OPTO coupling would be needed if a button was on a different circuit to the controlled output. Now we have access to a service manual it should be possible to plan the required mods. I will be on a travelling holiday for the next 3 months, so I will be driving my PHEV and won't be able to take it apart to see first hand what is needed in the fuel tank area. Presently I won't gain much with an EV only mode. PHEV does OK in normal mode as an EV vehicle if I don't stomp on the gas. I do see some merit as the cost of petrol increases, to restrict the ICE operation to be user controlled.

I have tested in principle the fuel tank empty by gauge operation. My PHEV refused to use the ICE when the indicated fuel was empty and there was still remaining battery. The normal refuel warnings came up, but no others. Once the battery was empty, the PHEV ignored the petrol gauge and allowed series hybrid ICE operation until the petrol tank was actually empty of petrol.

All I see happening with the petrol gauge sensor forced to the position indicating empty, even with a full petrol tank, is that the battery will be emptied first and then maybe 500km could be driven with ICE operation afterwards. This is exactly the opposite to my typical driving needs, so is why I have not made it a priority, and why sticky SAVE works so well for me.

 

[anko]

As I have tried to explain before: It may be easy to prevent the ice from firing up for driving purposes, by being gentle on the throttle, but you cannot prevent the ice from starting up for heating purposes, by being gentle on the heater. Only proper preheating (which requires proper planning of all your trips) can help to prevent this, but this is not always possible.

Three days ago, I did some preheating (thought it wasn't too cold) but when I took off, the car decided the electric heater was still not warm enough and fired up the engine. Just a few minutes later, the car decided that the heater by that time was hot enough (yes, the heater keeps going full blown, even when the engine starts for heating purposes) and shut down the engine. By that time the cooling water of the engine had reached not even 40 deg C, so the engine had not contributed to heating the car at all. The fuel spent has gone to a total waste.

The problem with your proposed solution is that the car will start up the engine for heating purposes, even when it will not start up the engine from driving purposes, so even with less than 5 liters of fuel left. And by that time, all it will do is generate heat. So, manipulating the fuel sensor in order to tell the car that there is very little fuel left won't cut it. You have to convince the car there is no fuel at all. And like I said earlier, it has to be seen whether that can be done through the fuel sensor.

For the Australian climate, this may not seem to important, but IMHO for most of us up here the response of the car to the heater is far more important than the response to the throttle.

Enjoy your holiday!

 

[gwatpe]

Thanks Anko.

I will be escaping the southern winter for a bit, so even less need for the heater. My PHEV is the Aspire model "Top of the range, but still missing many options here", and has electric heating.

My spin on EV is for moving the vehicle forward. If I ever see what happens in sub zero conditions will, may be, never.

The sticky cct I have made will work on EV, ASC, 4WDlock, SAVE, CHARGE, front sonics, rear sensors. Steering wheel buttons use an analogue divider system. These include ACC and CC.

PS edit: ACC and CC would require cct to be installed in the steering wheel, and may still be possible. Have to be careful with SRS airbag components.