D-Method on really stubborn cars or the A-Method :)

[jaapv]

I am sure all you experts are correct in what you say about the natural degradation and the dangers of overuling this on the life span of the battery.

I am just a poor ignoramous that cannot believe that the batteries are naturally degrading at the rate that is being seen.

What i do believe is that Mitsubishi should be more customer service orientated and include in their service schedule a check on the real state of the battery, not just rely on the guesses by its software/firmware, and have the ability to restore the battery capacity in the software/firmware to what it actually is so that the owner can always get the maximum electric drive as they expected when they spent the extra money on buying a PHEV. They could also consider updating their software/firmware so that it is more accurate in its guess.

Without this we might just as well have bought a "self charging hybrid" and saved the money.

Actually my dealer checks the battery SOH at every service and does offer battery smoothing and full battery service on demand.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

A dealer checking the SOH just reads the car's BMU, so it's still the same BMU guesstimate. So not much point in them doing that at each service, is there?

To check the SOH of a battery pack accurately involves charging it to a fully balanced 100% (maximum voltage) and then discharging the pack fully through a known load so that each cell is empty (minimum voltage) and from that you can calculate the actual capacity. This would take several hours and would itself decrease the capacity of the battery. Why on earth would you want someone to do that at each service when it would cost so much? That's why they developed the BMU algorithms as it is so difficult to measure the capacity accurately.

 

[HHL]

A dealer checking the SOH just reads the car's BMU, so it's still the same BMU guesstimate. So not much point in them doing that at each service, is there?

To check the SOH of a battery pack accurately involves charging it to a fully balanced 100% (maximum voltage) and then discharging the pack fully through a known load so that each cell is empty (minimum voltage) and from that you can calculate the actual capacity. This would take several hours and would itself decrease the capacity of the battery. Why on earth would you want someone to do that at each service when it would cost so much? That's why they developed the BMU algorithms as it is so difficult to measure the capacity accurately.

It really is not that difficult at all, as the full charge and endpoint are well known, as well as the energy consumed to get there and back. The BMU in my experience is actually quite accurate, provided the car is regularly fully charged from a power point. The only time where it may be necessary to initiate cell balancing (or smoothing as they call it) is if the car is rarely charged and primarily used as a hybrid or if charging is mainly done of fast chargers. My car is always charged at home and when I had a dealer do the capacity measurement last year it differed by only 1% of what the EVBATMON and the PHEV Watchdog reported. The simplest way to determine the state of the battery is to just monitor the power it takes to re-charge, no other gadgets needed.

 

[jaapv]

A dealer checking the SOH just reads the car's BMU, so it's still the same BMU guesstimate. So not much point in them doing that at each service, is there?

To check the SOH of a battery pack accurately involves charging it to a fully balanced 100% (maximum voltage) and then discharging the pack fully through a known load so that each cell is empty (minimum voltage) and from that you can calculate the actual capacity. This would take several hours and would itself decrease the capacity of the battery. Why on earth would you want someone to do that at each service when it would cost so much? That's why they developed the BMU algorithms as it is so difficult to measure the capacity accurately.

Well, they keep the car overnight for a battery service... It runs through a dedicated service program that takes several hours. 12 IIRC. The 20.000 km check is standard and AFAIK the results, at least the ones from the first batch of cars, are sent back to Japan for statistical analysis.

 

[MadTechNutter]

Well, it has been a little over a year since I started this thread and 'resetted' my BMU with this method and I can clearly say I have not regretted it one bit.
I still have 35Ah SoH.

Considering I came from 29Ah I could be looking at 26Ah if I had not done this and the car would be a total dud for me as it would not have covered my daily EV drive.
It is now evident to me that Mitsubishi does have a premature 'degradation' built into it's software, deliberately or not, the reasons being unclear.

It drives perfectly, I still get the full EV range I need with a bit of reserve which is about 40km + about 5km reserve, depending on my driving style.

At this stage I do not see the need for another reset.

 

[PHEVGermany]

This is a message from a desperate and frustrated German PHEV MY2020 owner not finding any helpful information in the German forums:

Situation:
After an official (free of charge) BMU FW upgrade and subsequent DBCAM, the Outlander is still experiencing rapid loss of SoH. The situation does not seem to have improved at all after the upgrade. So far I have NOT been able to reset the BMU’s SoH with any of the popular methods.

Question:
Has anybody driving a MY2020/2019 successfully performed a BMU Reset (BMU Hardware labeled with 9479A163, VOT 91282 H 0206 M0062) WITHOUT using a MUT device or connecting similar professional diagnostics HW?
Any idea is highly appreciated.

Greetings from Germany!

 

[kpetrov]

Better avoid those kind of resets where you are tricking the BMU to use the full potential of the battery.
Maybe that's the reason behind rapid loss of SoH, not correctly performed reset in the past.

After a reset a DBCAM should be performed so the BMU re learn the actual battery capacity.

After I performed an reset and DBCAM on MY2018 I have passed 9000km and my SoH decline is only 1%
I am using new approach on charging though. Beside waiting at least an hour before plugging in I am not charging fully anymore, since I don't need a full battery range daily.

 

[Dodgemaster]

Preview: Doing a BMU reset on my 2018 3H cvt
I have recently learned how to do a BMS in ten seconds reset after doing that I get a charge of 30 miles "amazing". using a 7.5kwh charger
The very next charge is back to 22/23 miles using the same charger.
Then if I do a reset again 30 miles again.
I keep seeing that people are able to do a BMU reset and after watching our friend in Australia apparently it can make a difference with a DCAM etc etc .
first of all am I doing any harm doing the reset (10 sec) and can I do a BMU and will it help.
Thanks in anticipation
Paul

 

[ThudnBlundr]

First of all there is no CVT :roll:

Secondly, why would you delete the BMU data so that you can trash your battery to gain a few extra miles for the next month or two? And then why on earth would you do it again?

 

[AndyInOz]

Also, if you clear the guessometer, it will give you bad guesses.

Seems crazy to work so hard to defeat the Mitsubishi engineers and trash the battery.

 

[Dodgemaster]

what do you mean no cvt? what do you think it is then?
I am just looking for some help and info
My phev had done only 16K when I bought it and it has now done 20k had it aprox 15months
so theoretically it has done no work at all but the battery only ever seems to show approx 22/23 when charger finishes its job
I just expect it to be better than it is I suppose,and looking for tips to make it better not clever remarks just help. I don' know whats good for it and what is bad for it.
Paul Rogers

2018 GGP21 variant
1993 Camaro
1974 stag
1976Triumph2000 tc
1926 Bullnose morris
etc

 

[greendwarf]

Yes, but what actual EV mileage do you get after your "reset" rather than what the guessometer promises?

BTW if the car has done all of the 16/20k in EV then it will have still aged the battery by about 400 full cycles i.e. used up a fifth of its overall life. So, 22 miles doesn't seem unreasonable, especially as we have no idea how you drive and the topology.

 

[littlescrote]

what do you mean no cvt? what do you think it is then?

It has a single fixed gear, brought in electronically only above 65kph in certain circumstances. Otherwise power is via the electric motors.

What do you think it is?

It wouldn't have been a personal attack on you and anyone trying to be clever, it's a bugbear of people's that the vehicle databases all have it as CVT as they don't have an option for what it actually is, and it's not a manual or an automatic. It's more like a robotised manual with only one gear than anything else.

Anyway, the guessometer is just that and if you actually get 22 miles of EV driving, that is about right (depending on your driving style and the topology (topography? I never know the difference) and road speeds that you drive in.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

what do you mean no cvt? what do you think it is then?

Read Richi's FAQ section K. The video shows you how it all works and shows that it's not a CVT.

That mileage on the GOM is pretty standard, and far better than I have on my 90k 2015 most of the time. Deleting the BMU data will fool the car into thinking it has a new battery. It will then try to take more energy out of your old battery than is wise. So you will get a temporary increase in range until the BMU learns that the battery isn't new, but in that time you could either overcharge or over-discharge the battery with the BMU trying to get a new battery's 40Ah out of it, causing irreparable damage. It will learn that it doesn't have 40Ah and will adjust itself down, but by that time the damage will have been done.

 

[greendwarf]

He says that he only gets the 30 miles after the "reset". When he next charges it he gets "22". So, it may be that whatever he is doing merely deletes the range history. So the guessometer reverts to the original 30 rather than he is drawing that amount of energy - he still hasn't told us whether the "30" is actually achieved or not.

If the BMU was really drawing enough energy for 30 miles, then the guessometer would take some time to drop down to "22". If it is only the guessometer, then I doubt it is having any effect on the battery - good or bad. :idea:

 

[Dodgemaster]

CVT is the modern day equivalent of the Daf variomatic instead of belts it uses chains
thus if you drive it the same you can lift your foot to change the ratio of the drive cogs

 

[ThudnBlundr]

It depends if you can call the Toyota hybrid system a CVT. That behaves exactly like a "regular" CVT, but uses fixed gears with a clever variability done by an epicyclic splitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFVd_fCiO88

 

[littlescrote]

CVT is the modern day equivalent of the Daf variomatic instead of belts it uses chains
thus if you drive it the same you can lift your foot to change the ratio of the drive cogs

Regardless of what CVT is or isn't, the Outlander does not have one. It sounds like it does when the engine is driving the generator to power the motors to drive the wheels as the engine speed is dependent on the load (accelerator pedal position). But once the single fixed gear transmission is brought in (orange arrow for power flow directly from engine to wheels), then engine speed is proportional to road speed, with higher loads accounted for by boost from the battery.

 

[VonHempfer]

Ok… UK’s persistent f…r 2019 2.4L, 33.4Ah, 72.8%, 50,000 mi. No procedure seemed to work until:

1. Drive down main battery to –/–.
2. Swap good 12V (Aux) to any other 12V (preferably smaller in size and capacity).
3. Press start x2 (no brakes applied).
4. Deplete substitute 12V to 7.5V (if battery is good) by switching on everything that can be switched on to max. Don’t mind the complaining dash.
5. Quickly turn off ignition (another press of the start button) and disconnect (-) on the 12V.
6. Plug in the active granny charger.
7. Touch (-) on the 12V long/short enough to stabilize the charging light on the dash (~3-4 sec) and disconnect right away. This step is critical. If required, it can be repeated by disconnecting the charger –> depleting 12V to 7.5V –> ignition off + negative terminal removed (-) –> charger on –> touch 12V’s negative to set the charging icon on the dash and remove (-).
8. Do not mind the reading on the OBD; in my case, it didn’t show any changes.
9. Let the car charge until auto disconnect, i.e. the charger automatically stops (charging light on the granny’s brick blinking).
10. Disconnect the charger.
11. Fit and connect the original 12V.

P.S. The electric boot was set to manual at the beginning. ‘EV service required’ will go away after a couple of on/off and lock/unlock cycles. Now use OBD to check the readings.

Before: 33.4Ah, 72.6%, speculative distance 40km
After: 46.0Ah, 100%, speculative distance 68km
All charging history erased.
Update later..