Coming Back?

[Dusz]

Back in 2016 I had a facelift PHEV as a company car. Sadly when the lease finished the price that the lease company wanted for me to purchase it was well above normal forecourt prices so I handed the car back in March 2020. Note, this car is still off the road with the MOT that I put on it being the last recorded MOT. So what could have been a win-win situation turned into a lose-lose situation.
We are now looking at replacing my 1.6 TDi Passat Estate potentially with an Outlander PHEV and most probably one with the 2.4l engine as my wife would be able to drive to and from my eldest son's house totally on electric.
However I am now wondering how all the traction batteries in the older vehicles are now fairing. Is the battery life reasonable or is it falling short of expectations?
Have any other issues arisen with the PHEV, anything special to look out for on a used vehicle?
How easy it is to find replacement parts since Mitsubishi left the UK shores?
Would people still recommend the Outlander PHEV or are there any better options?
I see that the model versions have been renamed, my previous car was a 4h and I particularly liked being able to set a timer for the car to warm up and defrost during the winter months. Could people tell me which versions have this feature?
Also, how is sat nav now organised?
Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[AndyInOz]

Mine appears to be still going strong.

We're coming out of winter at the moment, I'll try to remember to grab a shot of the range on the guess-ometer, the next time I take the car out.

 

[ASeitzinger]

Mine is a Model 2017 with 85.000km on the clock, 70% of them electric.

My electric range is now 30km-35km. I bought the car new and I have never seen more than 35km-40km electric range.

To sum it up, the Outlander is the best car I had so far, and that includes various GM, Mercedes, VW, Stellantis.

Recently thought of buying a new Ioniq 5 or new Outlander but decided to keep the old car and do some engineering with the drive battery - the larger battery modules of the 2018-model are already waiting in my workshop and extra modules to be used in a separate pack (range extender) are on transit from china.

I recommend to have the underbody and the cavities sprayed to prevent corrosion because if you decide to replace the traction pack after maybe 10 years, the chassis should be in an adequate state.

Had mine treated when new and I don't regret the extra €€ I spent on it.

 

[DaveL59]

I bought a 2019 2.4L 4HS beginning of last year with 45K miles on the clock. Range seems fine on electric at 18-23 miles indicated. The car has pretty low use but other than local trips to the shops etc most journeys it is used for are 30-100 miles each way. I tend to hit save once I'm on fast roads and it returns reasonable to me MPG. I always have the AC turned on, prefer to have comfort when travelling tho I know that drops the EV range.

I guess how good the battery is will depend on previous owner(s) use,. If mostly EV with lots of charging up then I expect the battery will be more worn out, as it were.

My 4HS does have the timer feature tho I've never used it, IIRC the 4H would as well, no clue on the later model designations that came out here from late 2019/2020.

Mine had a different head unit than the all-touch standard one so I don't have the EV info/settings available other than by the mobile app.

One thing to consider if going for the later 2020+ models with the bigger screen is several seems to have reported them going faulty and a very long fix time, due to availability of replacement units.

 

[maby]

We traded ours in and went Nissan - and we are very pleased with the change. I would not have another Mitsubishi unless they make a formal return to this country - particularly a hybrid or EV. The independent workshops are reluctant to do any work on an EV - too much perceived risk from high current 500V batteries - and lithium to make matters worse. Like it or not, there are still a very large number of petrol and diesel vehicles on the road that can be serviced safely without special equipment or staff training - most of the EVs on the road are still in warranty and people will be going back to the main dealer for service - the market is not worth enough for companies like Kwikfit to make the investment.

Martin

 

[Woon Chung]

I bought a 2019 2.4L 4HS beginning of last year with 45K miles on the clock. Range seems fine on electric at 18-23 miles indicated. The car has pretty low use but other than local trips to the shops etc most journeys it is used for are 30-100 miles each way. I tend to hit save once I'm on fast roads and it returns reasonable to me MPG. I always have the AC turned on, prefer to have comfort when travelling tho I know that drops the EV range.

I guess how good the battery is will depend on previous owner(s) use,. If mostly EV with lots of charging up then I expect the battery will be more worn out, as it were.

My 4HS does have the timer feature tho I've never used it, IIRC the 4H would as well, no clue on the later model designations that came out here from late 2019/2020.

Mine had a different head unit than the all-touch standard one so I don't have the EV info/settings available other than by the mobile app.

One thing to consider if going for the later 2020+ models with the bigger screen is several seems to have reported them going faulty and a very long fix time, due to availability of replacement units.

What is the purpose of Save when you drive on fast road?

 

[AndyInOz]

What is the purpose of Save when you drive on fast road?

Save maintains the present state of charge (more or less), reserving it for you when you need it later.

If you are at 50% save will keep boosting the drive battery back to 50% after it drops a percentage below that.

Typically it is used if you are planning for hill climbs, or an all electric part of the drive later on. (For example if you want to drive silently through a park to see all the animals, or drive silently on the last leg of your trip, through a village at night.)

 

[Woon Chung]

One thing to consider if going for the later 2020+ models with the bigger screen is several seems to have reported them going faulty and a very long fix time, due to availability of replacement units.

I have 2022 and it has touch screen mulfunction. It is known failure. My service center said Warranty for head unit is 3 years 36k miles. Not sure it is true or false. I bought screen digitizer at $14 from Amazon and follow the repair instruction on You Tube. It took half hour to do so. I guess that Mistubishi intensionally delay the headunit supply from Japan since they know this. If it is really main headunit defact, it is not right delaying defective part supply. - My pure guess, not base on the fact.

I guess how good the battery is will depend on previous owner(s) use,. If mostly EV with lots of charging up then I expect the battery will be more worn out, as it were.

I am a new PHEV owner. I am still learning about PHEV. My short knowledge about drive battery lifespan, it depends on full charge and full depleting cycle times. But good quality driver battery has its high functional battery control unit to prevent such situation. When PHEV battery level is bottom, it still has 25%(?) of total energy. It delays the full depleting. Generally, high voltage charging is more bad to the battery lifespan. Think of it, outlander PHEV rarely have to charge from high voltage, it is more stable than regular EV car battery, which is normal high voltage charge. So ours will last longer. I think that often charging at home is not bad to the battery. If i am wrong, please teach me.

 

[greendwarf]

We traded ours in and went Nissan - and we are very pleased with the change. I would not have another Mitsubishi unless they make a formal return to this country - particularly a hybrid or EV. The independent workshops are reluctant to do any work on an EV - too much perceived risk from high current 500V batteries - and lithium to make matters worse. Like it or not, there are still a very large number of petrol and diesel vehicles on the road that can be serviced safely without special equipment or staff training - most of the EVs on the road are still in warranty and people will be going back to the main dealer for service - the market is not worth enough for companies like Kwikfit to make the investment.

Martin

Er, my Kwikfit in Wandsworth (Sarf Lundun) are fully EV trained and begging me (via email) to bring mine back for service work, after they changed the tyres and did an alignment adjustment last year!

 

[Woon Chung]

Save maintains the present state of charge (more or less), reserving it for you when you need it later.

If you are at 50% save will keep boosting the drive battery back to 50% after it drops a percentage below that.

Typically it is used if you are planning for hill climbs, or an all electric part of the drive later on. (For example if you want to drive silently through a park to see all the animals, or drive silently on the last leg of your trip, through a village at night.)

Hi, there. It is nice to have clear answer on SAVE. It is exactly same described in User manual. The reason why I asked about SAVE purpose is that DaveL59 described in his posting as " I tend to hit save once I'm on fast roads and it returns reasonable to me MPG."
I am doubt about the meaning of "Reasonable" which he want to describe. If it means higher mile per gallon, he might be misunderstanding the meaning of SAVE mode. ECO mode will give us a better gas mileage, by limiting a certain function. However, SAVE mode has different purpose as AndyInOz described clearly. SAVE mode maintains the level of battery by using ICE generator. When turning on generator will consume gas. Consumed gas should be diagnosed.

If we do not consume extra gas by not using save, battery level will become the lowest level. Then generator will kick on to maintain battery level.

If we use extra gas by maintaining battery level as it is(like current level is 50%, maintain 50%), and then sometime later the bettery level will minimum level by making more EV range by saved battery. In order to compare the efficiency of gas motor gaenrator, we should calcualte the distance between the extra gas can produce the distance and EV motor generate distance. Actually it is not possible on the street to check it. It can be done at Lab with accurate measuring machine. That is why many people is confusing about this comparison.

I didn't test it by my self because I don't drive long. But as expermental challange some time later on as follows.

1st senario - Drive a certain distance (such as 110 miles, same way, same traffice, same temperature) with full charge at home. Check used gas by refueling to the top when finishe journey. EV distance will be displayed on dashboard Let's say it is 20 miles. Calculation of (110-20)/gallons used is Hybrid gas mileage.

2nd senario - Drive a certain distance as same above, with full charge at home. After 10 miles of driving EV, start SAVE Mode. Then it is in Hybrid mode. After a certain distance, turn off SAVE Mode, then it is in EV mode because battery maintain its level. When EV mode is done, it is in Hybrid mode. Calculation of (110-10-10) / gallons used is Hybrid gas mileage when we use SAVE mode without changing total EV distance.

3rd senario - Same condition as 1st senario. After driving EV 20 miles and it runs in Hybrid. Turn on Charge mode and generator will be kicked on by using gasoline. When it charges to top (80%), then stop charging and car is in hybrid mode. Before ending a journey, run EV again to use all saved energy, let's say 16 miles additional on EV. Calculation is (110-20-16)/ gallons used is Hybrid plus generator.

1st and 2nd calculation should be exactly same. If we believe SAVE mode provide more mileage, it should consume less gasloine. VISE VERSA.

3d sinario will clear whether CHARGE is better for fuel consuming or not. We have total 36 miles in EV and 74 miles for Hybrid. Compare used gasoline quanty is for Hybrid distance 74 miles and generator for 16 miles of EV energy.

If we get Hybrid mileage from 1st and 2nd sinario, it should be applied to 3rd sinario for 74 miles of Hybrid distance. Let's assume Hybrid gas mileage is 30 mpg, 1st and 2nd gasoline used is 3 gallons. If total consumed gas is 3 gallon in 3rd sinario, 3-2.46=0.54 gallon si used for generator.

If 0.54 is used for Hybrid miles, it will drive 16.2 miles. According to this calculation, Total 3 gallons will carry the car for 110miles disregarding Normal, SAVE or Charge mode. Assuming same condition of weather, uphill, downhill, traffic jam, wind direction, tire pressure, etc.

The key number is 3rd sinario's actual consumed quamtity of gasoline. I am really curious about this. The fuel consumption numbers in dashboard has different meaning.

 

[Woon Chung]

We traded ours in and went Nissan - and we are very pleased with the change. I would not have another Mitsubishi unless they make a formal return to this country - particularly a hybrid or EV. The independent workshops are reluctant to do any work on an EV - too much perceived risk from high current 500V batteries - and lithium to make matters worse. Like it or not, there are still a very large number of petrol and diesel vehicles on the road that can be serviced safely without special equipment or staff training - most of the EVs on the road are still in warranty and people will be going back to the main dealer for service - the market is not worth enough for companies like Kwikfit to make the investment.

Martin

So, you will keep distance with Electic car in general, not specially outlander PHEV? Did you have any inconvenient on Outlander PHEV? I would like to hear from your personal experience.

 

[maby]

Er, my Kwikfit in Wandsworth (Sarf Lundun) are fully EV trained and begging me (via email) to bring mine back for service work, after they changed the tyres and did an alignment adjustment last year

Admittedly, it's close to a year since our PHEV bit the dust, but Kwikfit Hemel Hempstead told me to go forth and multiply when it needed an Aircon top-up...

Martin

 

[DaveL59]

Admittedly, it's close to a year since our PHEV bit the dust, but Kwikfit Hemel Hempstead told me to go forth and multiply when it needed an Aircon top-up...

Martin

probably just as well re the AC, better to go to a specialist for AC work than some bodge outfit IMHO ;-)

 

[maby]

So, you will keep distance with Electic car in general, not specially outlander PHEV? Did you have any inconvenient on Outlander PHEV? I would like to hear from your personal experience.

While it is possible to buy petrol easily, I'll stick to a petrol car. I don't think I have more than another ten years of safe driving in me and the X-Trail is still less than a year old, so I'm hoping that it will outlast me. My X-Trail is the ePower model - petrol with an electric transmission. Conceptually, it is almost identical to the PHEV but with no pretence at EV - the battery is small - about the size of a briefcase - and the EV range is about a mile. There is no provision for plugging it in. Unlike the PHEV, there is never any physical connection between the petrol engine and the wheels - it is permanently in series mode. The battery is just there to support a fuel efficient petrol engine - it's a three cylinder variable compression turbo-charged engine with a capacity around 1.5 litres. Over the last nine months, it's averaged around 40mpg over a mixture of motorway and in-town driving. In the early summer with temperatures in the low twenties, I did a long run on a flat motorway with roadworks that required a 50mph speed limit - towards the end of that run, it just touched 60mpg - not bad for a vehicle that size...

As far as the PHEV was concerned, we never had any serious issues with it. But it was not good enough to justify the list price. We bought it in 2014 when the (UK) government was giving all sorts of incentives to buy one - they gave us a subsidy of several thousands of pounds on the list price, the road tax was zero, they installed an EV charger for free, the tax treatment for a PHEV as a company car was very favorable, the tax writedown rules for our company buying it as a company car were very favorable and it was exempt from the London Congestion Charge. When you added all that up, the government almost paid us to take it!

All of those incentives have gone now - leaving it as a rather expensive car that works well enough within its EV range, but once the battery goes flat, it is expensive to run. Our usage pattern for any car is short runs of around ten miles per day three days per week and a return trip of around 100 miles each way the other four days. That return trip is high speed motorway in each direction with no opportunity to recharge in the middle. In the warm weather, the PHEV averaged just under 40mpg. In the winter, it struggled to manage better than 30mpg. The battery in our 2014 model had a claimed range of 32 miles - I never saw better than 29 miles and had to drive it like a milkfloat to get that out of it. By the time it was a couple of years old, the winter range was down to less than 15 miles, when we traded it in last December, I had to nurse it along to get 12 miles. And it's a big, heavy battery... For my motorway trips of around 200 miles, it contributed perhaps 10% of that range, but then became a heavy weight that I had to lug around, wasting petrol for the remaining 90% of the trip.

So, no, with the incentives gone, I don't think it makes any sense - at least for me. There are enthusiasts here whose pattern of usage is almost entirely short local trips and who can effectively use it as an EV. I would not buy such a large vehicle to use just for short trips to the shops. There are enthusiasts here who are prepared to turn off all the heating and aircon - wearing multiple layers of clothing in an unheated car in January and sweating with the windows all open in August - I'm not one of them! Fifty years ago, all I could afford was a worn out old Mini and I had not choice but to put up with that. These days, if I'm going to pay £40,000 or more for a car, I expect it to be comfortable!

We have been looking at a Nissan Leaf as a small runabout for the three days of local driving - and I think there is a good chance that we will go that way. There are some very good deals to be had on them these days - the various car manufacturers are facing big penalties if EVs don't make up a certain percentage of their sales, but that is a percentage by number, not by value. Nissan seem to have done the sums and realised that it makes much more sense to flog off Leaf demonstrators with a few hundred miles on the clock than it does to either accept the penalties or to discount the high end models to the point where the volumes come up high enough...


Martin

 

[Woon Chung]

While it is possible to buy petrol easily, I'll stick to a petrol car. I don't think I have more than another ten years of safe driving in me and the X-Trail is still less than a year old, so I'm hoping that it will outlast me. My X-Trail is the ePower model - petrol with an electric transmission. Conceptually, it is almost identical to the PHEV but with no pretence at EV - the battery is small - about the size of a briefcase - and the EV range is about a mile. There is no provision for plugging it in. Unlike the PHEV, there is never any physical connection between the petrol engine and the wheels - it is permanently in series mode. The battery is just there to support a fuel efficient petrol engine - it's a three cylinder variable compression turbo-charged engine with a capacity around 1.5 litres. Over the last nine months, it's averaged around 40mpg over a mixture of motorway and in-town driving. In the early summer with temperatures in the low twenties, I did a long run on a flat motorway with roadworks that required a 50mph speed limit - towards the end of that run, it just touched 60mpg - not bad for a vehicle that size...

As far as the PHEV was concerned, we never had any serious issues with it. But it was not good enough to justify the list price. We bought it in 2014 when the (UK) government was giving all sorts of incentives to buy one - they gave us a subsidy of several thousands of pounds on the list price, the road tax was zero, they installed an EV charger for free, the tax treatment for a PHEV as a company car was very favorable, the tax writedown rules for our company buying it as a company car were very favorable and it was exempt from the London Congestion Charge. When you added all that up, the government almost paid us to take it!

All of those incentives have gone now - leaving it as a rather expensive car that works well enough within its EV range, but once the battery goes flat, it is expensive to run. Our usage pattern for any car is short runs of around ten miles per day three days per week and a return trip of around 100 miles each way the other four days. That return trip is high speed motorway in each direction with no opportunity to recharge in the middle. In the warm weather, the PHEV averaged just under 40mpg. In the winter, it struggled to manage better than 30mpg. The battery in our 2014 model had a claimed range of 32 miles - I never saw better than 29 miles and had to drive it like a milkfloat to get that out of it. By the time it was a couple of years old, the winter range was down to less than 15 miles, when we traded it in last December, I had to nurse it along to get 12 miles. And it's a big, heavy battery... For my motorway trips of around 200 miles, it contributed perhaps 10% of that range, but then became a heavy weight that I had to lug around, wasting petrol for the remaining 90% of the trip.

So, no, with the incentives gone, I don't think it makes any sense - at least for me. There are enthusiasts here whose pattern of usage is almost entirely short local trips and who can effectively use it as an EV. I would not buy such a large vehicle to use just for short trips to the shops. There are enthusiasts here who are prepared to turn off all the heating and aircon - wearing multiple layers of clothing in an unheated car in January and sweating with the windows all open in August - I'm not one of them! Fifty years ago, all I could afford was a worn out old Mini and I had not choice but to put up with that. These days, if I'm going to pay £40,000 or more for a car, I expect it to be comfortable!

We have been looking at a Nissan Leaf as a small runabout for the three days of local driving - and I think there is a good chance that we will go that way. There are some very good deals to be had on them these days - the various car manufacturers are facing big penalties if EVs don't make up a certain percentage of their sales, but that is a percentage by number, not by value. Nissan seem to have done the sums and realised that it makes much more sense to flog off Leaf demonstrators with a few hundred miles on the clock than it does to either accept the penalties or to discount the high end models to the point where the volumes come up high enough...


Martin

I read from the top to bottom, and there is no way to disagree on you writing. I believe you have enough knowledge to figure all factors and never miss the important point.

Just for your reference, I have been raised in a different society with different cultures. I have to buy a nice looking car for my wife, and powerful car for my son, even though I drive a compact pick up for ready to transport materials of repair house, home appliances and used furniture from flee market. I just try to explain that everyone has their own reason to buy a certain car. It is obvious that there exists lots of people who does not know why they spend money for the car. Maybe commercial is taking a big role in the car market.

About EV cars, it is very important to consider personal journey, because each EV, HEV and PHEV has totally different character to maintain.

EV should be supported by the Government, otherwise we pay too much for the Battery. And charging hub is not quite convenient yet. If you do not have charging point near you, it will be a disaster. Still it is too expensive. Charging at home is the key factor. Severe Cold weather is the big barrier to overcome.

HEV looks ok if you don't care much about gas mileage but still want better mileage than patrol car. It also affected by the journey character. If you drive Speedway mostly, it will not save gas enough. If you drive mostly in the city, more chances to save gas. It is not easy to recover extra pay for Hybrid engine and battery, nevertheless. No charging required.

PHEV is in the middle. Pay less money than EV but more than HEV, because battery size is in the middle. But it is useless for long distance journey. It is only useful for less than a 30-40 miles of journey. But you are free from charging point issue. You can charge battery every night at home using regular wall outlet. You have to own at least 10 years to take advantage of paid money. They say long term factory warranty but when there is some failure, they know how to avoid warranty. You might need Lawyer to get warranty. This is same situation to all EV cars. So, it is important to choose a car from reliable manufacturer.

Outlander PHEV is useless car for a major users. It only attracts a certain group of the people. It looks big SUV but actually it has less performance than other SUV. It looks modern but interior is old style. It looks luxury but no luxury as luxury car. It looks modern tech but lots of sensor failure and missing modern functions. Service is terrible because non professional service man and 1/10 or less service centers than other Japanese car. Near by garage does not know this car nor have any test equipment and part for this car. You have to go to dealership only, and should wait for the parts delivery from Japan for months up to indefinitely.

I am sorry to bother you with nonsense.

Woon Chung