Battery condition check

[K9pvc]

Hi guys
Just looking for a bit of advice really, I’ve had my 2015 facelift outlander G4hs for the last 7 and a half years it’s been an absolute joy to own. So the warranty on my main drive battery runs out at the end of September, and recently I’ve noticed quite a drop in the actual miles I’m getting on pure electric. So I thought I would book it in to the dealership I bought it from, and who has serviced it since I’ve had it for a battery health check, When I first got it I was getting about 25 miles on battery power but now I’m only managing about 14 to 16 miles on the same journey I’ve been doing for the last 7 years. So with that kind of drop in capacity I’m thinking it may now be below the 80% capacity they said it should be. Now the dealer who was the original Mitsubishi main dealer has said the check will only take about an hour and that I should bring the vehicle in with less than 30% charge remaining for them to do the test, and that this test will tell me the condition of the battery and let me know if I have a possible claim against Mitsubishi for a replacement battery does this sound like the right kind of test that needs to be done.

Thanks in advance

Paul

 

[AndyInOz]

Yes, it is a check that should be done.

But here's the cautions...

Everything reduces the battery mileage on your car.

External fittings, adding a spare tyre, driving aggressively, air-conditioning, heating, driving fast, stuck brakes, carrying stuff in the car etc.

If you have multiple drivers, you can't tell how they are driving.

Don't rely on the guessometer, fill the battery, set your A trip meter, and drive it until the car forces charge on and see how many actual miles it travelled.

 

[zzcoopej]

So I thought I would book it in to the dealership I bought it from, and who has serviced it since I’ve had it for a battery health check, When I first got it I was getting about 25 miles on battery power but now I’m only managing about 14 to 16 miles on the same journey I’ve been doing for the last 7 years. So with that kind of drop in capacity I’m thinking it may now be below the 80% capacity they said it should be. Now the dealer who was the original Mitsubishi main dealer has said the check will only take about an hour and that I should bring the vehicle in with less than 30% charge remaining for them to do the test, and that this test will tell me the condition of the battery and let me know if I have a possible claim against Mitsubishi for a replacement battery does this sound like the right kind of test that needs to be done.

Yep, that's the official test. You can also test the capacity yourself using an OBD adaptor and the android phone App EvBatMon.

 

[K9pvc]

Hi guys
Thanks for the reply’s, I now feel a bit more confident that I have been offered the correct check at the dealership.
To be fair I don't rely on the guessometer, although I have to say it is pretty accurate with its mileage estimates. I do exactly as you suggest Andy and fully charge the battery, set my my trip meter, and drive it until the car forces charge. Also I have been making the same journey late at night for the last 7 years so hardly any other traffic on my journey and mainly all duel carriageways which is 13 miles one way. When I first got my Outlander I could almost get there and Back on a full charge and now I’m only just about getting one way out of a full charge. So I’m pretty confident there has been quite a drop in the battery capacity from new. So hopefully if the test does show it’s dropped below the guaranteed level Mitsubishi will step up and honour any repairs or replacement as needed to bring it back to the level that it once was
Paul

 

[mikal83]

80%.. I thought I'd read it was 70%.

you bought your car from a Mit dealer....Is the service history also ALL with a MIT dealer or????? I have asked a ?? re this above here

 

[K9pvc]

80%.. I thought I'd read it was 70%.

you bought your car from a Mit dealer....Is the service history also ALL with a MIT dealer or????? I have asked a ?? re this above here

Hi
Yes I bought my car from the main Mitsubishi dealership and that same dealership has serviced my outlander since I’ve had it every year so it has a full Mitsubishi service history.

 

[K9pvc]

Hi Guys
Well had my capacity test done by the dealership today and they said everything is within the parameters of the guarantee with only 18% deterioration. They gave me a few print outs which mean nothing to me but I’m sure they will make a lot more sense to some of your guys on here so if anybody with much greater knowledge than me would like to give me their opinion on the following print outs it would be much appreciated

 

[kpetrov]

There is something wrong...
Auto capa measured result his 1 40.0Ah
That means a reset has been done without following DBCAM.
40Ah is original manufactured value it should be 18%-20% less.

Will hook up mine to check again.

 

[K9pvc]

There is something wrong...
Auto capa measured result his 1 40.0Ah
That means a reset has been done without following DBCAM.
40Ah is original manufactured value it should be 18%-20% less.

Will hook up mine to check again.

Ok that’s interesting, so you think they have not tested it correctly? To be honest I’m surprised by there results as I have noticed a constant reduction in Ev only mileage by around 8 to 10 miles over the 7 1/2 years I’ve owned it. I’m thinking it may be wise to take it to another Ev specialist who can test it and give me a second opinion. Any of you guys here in the Uk have any recommendations for a specialist who could test and give me a report on my drive battery condition. I live in cheshire but happy to travel if needed to get it tested by anyone that comes recommended by any of you guys.

 

[kpetrov]

I am not sure regarding that exact "Data list" screen. I have to check it on my vehicle but forgot.
Here is a link to pics from mine vehicle data and 40Ah is after the reset. After that a DBCAM is performed, BMU measured the battery to be actually 36Ah

 

[kenny256]

The data items list 402-412 for the History is pre-populated with the original pack capacity value, ie 40 Ah as placeholders for the annual tests expected to be done over the life of the pack. When the test is done then this value is supposed to be updated to the measured value along with the date and mileage that the test was done. For reference see this data items table, or direct link: http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_phev/online/Service_Manual_2014/2019/54/html/M154945550019700ENG.HTM

Your pack seems to be well balanced in that the min-max difference is only 3 mV

The Secular degradation is that which occurred over time, ~18% , and the Cyclic degradation is that associated with the number of charge cycles, ~12%. The total degradation would be the sum of these two, or ~30%.

Unfortunately the actual measured capacity is not being shown on these data items list screenshots.

 

[K9pvc]

The data items list 402-412 for the History is pre-populated with the original pack capacity value, ie 40 Ah as placeholders for the annual tests expected to be done over the life of the pack. When the test is done then this value is supposed to be updated to the measured value along with the date and mileage that the test was done. For reference see this data items table, or direct link: http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_phev/online/Service_Manual_2014/2019/54/html/M154945550019700ENG.HTM

Your pack seems to be well balanced in that the min-max difference is only 3 mV

The Secular degradation is that which occurred over time, ~18% , and the Cyclic degradation is that associated with the number of charge cycles, ~12%. The total degradation would be the sum of these two, or ~30%.

Unfortunately the actual measured capacity is not being shown on these data items list screenshots.

Hi
Thanks for your input I have looked at the information you supplied but it’s way over my head. I have spoken to the dealership again and asked them why they have not provided me with a print out that shows the actual current battery capacity. Unfortunately, I was speaking to the service receptionist and it was all a little bit above his pay grade so he has suggested I bring the vehicle back they will plug it in and go through everything with me while I’m there with them. So If I understand you correctly what you are saying is the battery capacity now is actually the sum total of secular degradation 18.34% and the Cyclic degradation 12.79% ? Which if that is the case would put the capacity at just under 69% which I believe may just scrape through as a valid warrenty claim as Mitsubishi guarantees no less than 70% over 8 years.

 

[kenny256]

Yes i would recommend that you put in a claim for replacement if still under the 8 year mark.

i would expect them to want to run some capacity tests to measure and verify those degradation values (we don't know how they are calculated). Also they may use actual measured Ahr capacity in the warranty determination, 70% of 40Ahr is 28 Ahr. If they measure 28 or higher, they will not want to replace.

i see in post #1 that you are getting about 15 miles now, and 25 when new, so that is about 40% reduction, that broad ranging average just gives a feel for how "worn out" the battery seems. Also it seems from the data list that the pack is 93 months old, so you are running up to the end of 8 years.

 

[tweedie]

Hi K9pvc, I am in a similar situation as you and considering getting my Mitsubishi garage to do a battery test as well because I am not seeing the range as expected anymore. Just under 8 year old car so still under warrantee. Unfortunately the garage saying it will take 2 hours to do the test and would cost me nearly 300 quid!

Anyway, just wondered how you got on putting in the claim for a battery replacement? Did they honour it or did you have a lot of hassle?

 

[hughwi]

Hi @K9pvc @tweedie , I would also be very interested in how you got on, as I am in the same position, however unfortunately my local mitsubishi dealership closed down, and the next closest is at least 40 miles away, so I chose to get mine serviced last year at a local garage. I am hoping this wont impact any recourse I have for a battery/warranty replacement claim.

 

[tweedie]

Hi @K9pvc @tweedie , I would also be very interested in how you got on, as I am in the same position, however unfortunately my local mitsubishi dealership closed down, and the next closest is at least 40 miles away, so I chose to get mine serviced last year at a local garage. I am hoping this wont impact any recourse I have for a battery/warranty replacement claim.

snap. my "local" mitsubishi used to be in blackpool but closed down a few years so my nearest garage is Preston which is probably 30 miles way but its a right faff getting there and time consuming. Because of that, it would mean I have to take half day off work each time to visit so I had no choice but to use local non-mitsubishi garage for servicing. I hope that doesn't effect my warranty claim (if it happens) but will keep you posted.

 

[twosout]

I don't think you can tell much about capacity loss from the guessometer. Mine varies considerably with the outside temperature but the summertime ranges don't seem to have changed much at all. The car is just over 5yrs old now (MY18). I used to run the watchdog app when I had an Android phone and that suggested that the capacity was 44Ah when new, but only 34Ah four years later. I've no idea how that's measured. I judge the capacity by how much (kWh) I need to put in to fully charge from from zero range and that does not seem to have dropped significantly. At best, I might have put 10kWh in, whereas it's at least 8.5kWh these days (sometimes 9kWh).
My garage wants the car for a full day to check the battery and that's a chargeable service (£250 + VAT). I'd need to be pretty sure that it's less than 70% of capacity before doing that, and think I'd prefer an independent assessment. I, too, had thought that the measure was 80% but maybe that changed?
It has disappointed me that I've never received any report of battery condition when it's serviced and I'm sure such important information is available.
I've paid to have the ICE serviced every year and am pretty sure the oil did not even get dirty aduring Covid because I didn't do any long journeys.

 

[davep118]

I'm in the UK. I don't know about pre-MY16 models (you said yours was 2015 facelift), but the traction battery capacity on MY16 and older models (up to when they changed to 40Ah after which I don't know), comes with a warranty of 100,000 miles or 8 years that has a guarantee that if the battery capacity falls below 70% (of 38Ah), a free repair or replacement will be provided. Using the Watchdog app, my State of Health in August 2020 was 93.2%. Last time I checked in Sept 2023 I was down to 77.4% so I should probably check again as the warranty runs out in March 2024.

 

[Jim4eco]

I'm in the UK. I don't know about pre-MY16 models (you said yours was 2015 facelift), but the traction battery capacity on MY16 and older models (up to when they changed to 40Ah after which I don't know), comes with a warranty of 100,000 miles or 8 years that has a guarantee that if the battery capacity falls below 70% (of 38Ah), a free repair or replacement will be provided. Using the Watchdog app, my State of Health in August 2020 was 93.2%. Last time I checked in Sept 2023 I was down to 77.4% so I should probably check again as the warranty runs out in March 2024.

Which OBD2 reader did you use to connect the Watchdog App to?

 

[davep118]

It was the Vgate iCar Pro Bluetooth but my Ebay history only goes back to 2021 so I'm not sure, but it was probably v3.0. I rarely have the Watchdog on any more but the OBD has constantly been in the port for 3+ years (except when it goes for a service) and every time I do connect, it has always worked.