Wrong Kind of Customer?

[Highspen]

Crumbs .... 19 reply posts in 6 hours! Some honest, some supportive, some defensive ;-)

Hotels with EV points, good idea there to start our own directory. I prefer boutique hotels to multinationals, I'm going to start putting the pressure on a few I stay at regularly to get EV points installed. Do you remember how hotels used to charge for internet access until they found that they needed to provide it FOC in order to draw the business in. I wish that I had said that last month to the house manager at the British Colonial in Nassau, shocking price!

Back to the subject, I read somewhere recently (could even have been here) that someone said that they had just had a huge pay rise; they had just changed their car to a PHEV. Part of me wants everyone to benefit from the PHEV type of vehicle concept, whilst part of me rather enjoys the exclusivity that it imparts. Ah.... a dichotomy.

G'night all.

 

[maby]

Crumbs .... 19 reply posts in 6 hours! Some honest, some supportive, some defensive ;-)

Hotels with EV points, good idea there to start our own directory. I prefer boutique hotels to multinationals, I'm going to start putting the pressure on a few I stay at regularly to get EV points installed. Do you remember how hotels used to charge for internet access until they found that they needed to provide it FOC in order to draw the business in. I wish that I had said that last month to the house manager at the British Colonial in Nassau, shocking price!

Back to the subject, I read somewhere recently (could even have been here) that someone said that they had just had a huge pay rise; they had just changed their car to a PHEV. Part of me wants everyone to benefit from the PHEV type of vehicle concept, whilst part of me rather enjoys the exclusivity that it imparts. Ah.... a dichotomy.

G'night all.

If you love the car, you really need as many people as possible to buy one - even if they are doing it for the "wrong" reasons - there are not enough affluent tree-huggers around to make it viable to keep the production line running on their own!

 

[rjs104]

Hi All,

Just to join on the thread, and to echo some of the thoughts already stated.

I've traded in my Landrover Discovery 3 2006 plate, basically because it was becoming unreliable and costly to fix and run. When it worked, it was an amazing car. But all too often lately it's let us down. Usually this would be on a family outing with the car loaded to the gunnels - which is a primary reason we bought it. Numerous times we've ended up back at home transferring everything into an Audi A4 estate to be able to actually complete the journey...

Every repair was circa 1K, let alone the road tax and diesel costs.

Now, I agree that buying a brand new car means we're not going to recoup the outlay at the bank, but (hopefully) the reliability, known maintenance costs and lower running costs will lead to a more peaceful life and less ruined journeys all of which have an intangible "life cost".

I think I'm going to be an ideal Outlander owner. I'm freelance, so work at many sites, but most of which are within 10-15 miles of my home (and some a lot less). All these journeys are around London, so no great speed is achieved. I need a 4x4 with carrying capacity as I often have to carry kit around and need to get to the job come what may. In the winter, some jobs explicitly ask for staff who have 4x4's to ensure they turn up - and so I get bookings because I can say "yes I do"!

I did the maths, and for me, the cost over 3 years for buying either the Mits from new (with the perks) or buying a 2nd hand LR3/4 came out to be the same, give or take.

So, I'm jumping into the Japanese engineering camp, with the palpable excitement for the new technology to play with and learn.

I'm an engineer, so I guess I fall into that category of buyer that the original poster quoted. I was initially drawn to the technology and interested by that, then went on a steep learning curve to understand what the financial benefits might be to a limited company...

... and then there was the "ting" moment where I realised I might be able to make the numbers work and justify this purchase!

Woo-hoo!

<sorry for the life history, but I thought worth sharing >

As others have said, if petrol head travelling salesman company car owners are going to buy these cars for the financial perks alone, then in one sense great. More cars on the road, more demand for a charging infrastructure, and some of them might just fall in love with the whole concept.

The only downside is if they rock the boat and cause the government to withdraw the perks because it's seen that people are abusing them...

My 2p worth

Richard

 

[maddogsetc]

Hi Richard, have you got it now then?

Your story is similar to mine as you know, but it's funny you mention that 'ting moment' - my case was very similar, but I was comparing running the (2006) Disco for another 3 years, with higher fuel costs, an average of nearly £2k/year on service and maintenance, road tax at £500.

Once I realised that I could run the Outlander through the business with a net cost to myself almost the same but with the benefit of 3 years warranty and a shiny new motor it was almost a no-brainer. I say almost because, although it's far nicer than I first thought it would be, the interior of the Mitsi isn't a patch on the latest LR products. But even a 3 year old Disco is as dear to buy upfront as a new Outlander and obviously doesn't come with the warranty or cost savings.

I have to admit to feeling a little jealous of the interior of SWMBO's Audi, but boy does it seem noisy, especially at tickover!

 

[rjs104]

Hi Maddogs,

No - not got my PHEV yet - collect Friday with a following wind. I traded in my LR early as the insurance ran out and it was easier just to offload it.

It's going to be interesting to see what LR do in regards to their own version of plug in. I'm sure it hasn't escaped them - and I know they announced that RR hybrid, though as I recall it didn't have very impressive figures.

.. and I love LR's, but anything to make them more complex is only asking for trouble!

Cheers,

Richard.

 

[maby]

Hi All,

Just to join on the thread, and to echo some of the thoughts already stated.

...
As others have said, if petrol head travelling salesman company car owners are going to buy these cars for the financial perks alone, then in one sense great. More cars on the road, more demand for a charging infrastructure, and some of them might just fall in love with the whole concept.

The only downside is if they rock the boat and cause the government to withdraw the perks because it's seen that people are abusing them...

My 2p worth

Richard

I don't think the government will withdraw the perks because the car is attracting the "wrong kind of customer" - they will not know either way. Yes, the charging points capture and transmit usage data, but they do not know which car is being charged and have no knowledge of how the car is being used - I might be doing 80 or 90 all electric miles per week, but just as easily could be doing a thousand primarily petrol miles instead.

The government will withdraw the perks when they become too expensive to maintain. With my cynic's hat on, I'll suggest that they really are not interested in saving the environment, just in being seen to be trying to save the environment. They make a lot of money out of road fuel duty and can't afford to have too many of us running around on electricity taxed at domestic rates. We were early adopters of the Prius and got all sorts of benefits including Congestion Charge exemption - then suddenly half the cars in London were Priuses and TfL moved the goalposts. I'm not counting on the CC exemption lasting more than a couple of years - and the BIK is already scheduled to ramp up within three or four years, isn't it?

 

[sawman82]

Now, I agree that buying a brand new car means we're not going to recoup the outlay at the bank, but (hopefully) the reliability, known maintenance costs and lower running costs will lead to a more peaceful life and less ruined journeys all of which have an intangible "life cost".

I'm a private buyer, not that there are any business incentives here....Our dealers could only wish there were business owners lining up!

Totally hit the nail on the head from my point of view. New Car = Less ruined journeys and lost time. My free time is few and far between so I'd rather spend it in something that I enjoy, doesn't break down and can get where I want to go. I'm an Electrical Engineer and a mountain biker so a plug in that can get up the fire trails and I can throw my bike into without pulling off the wheels was a no brainer.

Sure I could have bought a new Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia..... for a tad cheaper but who cares. I had been interested in Electric cars for a while, but the Volt was too small and couldn't take a tow bar. So when a plug in 4x4 turned up for a price that I could actually justify to the wife I couldn't really say no. (Wife is Japanese so pulled the old, "helping out the Japanese car industry" line!) You only live once!

Ohh, just for interest, I can speak and read Japanese fairly well (lived there for a few years). If anyone on the forums ever needs anything translated (into real English) or help on a website etc, give me a bell. Google translate still isn't there when it comes to Japanese.

 

[Eggtastico]

As someone who used to be employed with a company car & fuel card, I lothed having to pay BIK & the fuel tax.
Was paying out what I deem an unfair amount for the amount of personal mileage I was doing.

At the end of the day
Employer pays for car
employer pays for fuel
employee gets taxed on the benefit, so its in their own interest to pay as little tax as possible.

WIth the Phev
Employer pays for car
employee pays for fuel
Employer pays employee 16p per mile
employee pays only 5% BIK
Lets say 5000 miles a year done on electric costing 6p per mile (£300), employee gets £800 back from employer, earning an extra £500

Yearly BIK 3h approx £350 on 20% & £670 on 40% / top of the range 4h approx £400 on 20% & £800 on 40%
Compare that to a basic 3 series BMW of £1000 on 20% & £2000 on 40%

 

[Posty]

The only other brand new car I ever bought myself (apart from company cars when I worked for a big company) was a 520d bmw in 2007. It was a very efficient yet reasonably powerful large car for its time and I have to say that the quality of the materials used in it and the fit and finish we're infinitely better than the phev. It cost me £26k at the time and the phev I've got cost quite a bit more than that even after the £5k tax break.

If bmw came up with a quality car at a similar price with the same tech then I can't see people sticking with mitsubishi.

Since starting my own company things have been a fair bit leaner car wise over the last few years... My mums old punto, and then a 2litre petrol mondeo. I do very few miles compared to the old days of a 130 mile round trip commute for which I needed a nice big comfortable car so the phev is certainly an indulgance to my inner geek. But I have to say I love it so far!

Since I got back from holiday I've not put any fuel in it. So not having to spend £80 per month on petrol and the tax savings from leasing through my company have meant I am able again to buy a nice new car, but I'm sure the tax breaks won't last and my next one will have to be something more modest again.

Andy

 

[I8Binners]

I went for the PHEV for the following reasons

I wanted a 4x4 for longer business and football journeys
It will save me approximately £1200 a year on my current car through BIK and fuel costs and upto 6k on other 4x4's.
It's a great price for what it is.