Transmission fluid change.

[Roxyman]

Morning,

I have recently bought a 21 Outlander Phev with 18 K miles.. I have read a number of times during my research that I perhaps should consider changing the transmission fluid. I'm not sure about this and it seems perhaps an unnecessary expense.
Has anyone any familiarity with this advice or have any opinions? It would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[mellobob]

Well ... since the PHEV doesn't have a transmission ... well, have fun doing that

 

[DaveL59]

Actually an interesting question IMHO. As I understand it, the clutch that connects the ICE to the front drivetrain is a wet clutch system. Therefore it will have some sort of transmission fluid which will, over time, degrade both in terms of its lubrication ability and the accumulation of wear debris from the clutch friction plate and gearing. Of course it could be spec'd as 'sealed for life' as so many modern transmissions that use very expensive lubes are. A lot of folk find out that the manufacturer's idea of 'life' can be quite short compared to their expectations. The age old trade-off manufacturers play - service intervals and cost Vs making their vehicle more appealing to those not wanting to pay too much over the 'life' of their car.

Anyone who's had a car with an auto gearbox likely knows the fluid needs changing periodically and if never changed its often a horrible smelly thin black liquid, hastening gearbox failure. Be interested to hear if anyone looks into this further and lets us know how.

I get that compared to a regular auto transmission the clutch in our PHEV isn't going to be working as often, but every time it engages and disengages there'll be potential for some slip and therefore abrasive debris released into the fluid. Over time it all adds up, question is how long? Probably longer than the regular warranty for the vehicle (5 years, say), likely the 8 years on the battery too. Beyond that it'd be the owner's cost/problem to sort it, so is 'life' then defined as 8 years at time of design? Sure there are a lot of PHEV's out there still running well beyond that but with no idea if that important part of the system is in good health.

In the same way I've looked at the service guides for details on the chain and tensioners in the ICE and there's nothing. Those don't last forever and ideally do need periodic maintenance to improve longevity. Something I'll certainly look at how/where I can get that work done once I get to around 60K miles. There is someone IIRC around N/NW M25 who occasionally advertises on eBay that does work and could do the chain & tensioner replacement so perhaps knows more on the transmission fluid.

For sure I've seen cars on the bay which have failed ICE and pretty sure I've seen comments about drive not engaging somewhere, so I'd not dismiss this idea too quickly.

 

[Roxyman]

Well ... since the PHEV doesn't have a transmission ... well, have fun doing that

Thanks for the help smart arse
Ive obviously misread something , if there's anyone else who is familiar with recommendations re changing fluids or labs when buying a second hand Outlander perhaps you could give us a shout
Thanks

 

[AndyInOz]

You should be able to see the published maintenance schedule for your car on a Mitsubishi website for your country.

For example:

https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.a.../OUTLANDER-PHEV-21MY_Maintenance Schedule.pdf

You should check front and rear motor cooling oil yearly, top up as required.
Replace rear motor cooling oil every 20 years.

You should check the front and rear transaxle oil yearly, and if the vehicle has severe usage, replace it every 30,000 km.

That's it as far as I can see.

Note that there are many checks for leaking seals.

A leaking seal should be immediately replaced, otherwise you risk severe damage.

Personally, I just give the dealer approximately $1000 per year ($20 per week) to manage all the servicing for me.

That's way cheaper than making mistakes and destroying big ticket items...

Note that my dealer makes videos when performing inspections, so you can see any issue that they raise.

 

[DaveL59]

good to know its covered in normal servicing Andy, thanks.

 

[Roxyman]

Actually an interesting question IMHO. As I understand it, the clutch that connects the ICE to the front drivetrain is a wet clutch system. Therefore it will have some sort of transmission fluid which will, over time, degrade both in terms of its lubrication ability and the accumulation of wear debris from the clutch friction plate and gearing. Of course it could be spec'd as 'sealed for life' as so many modern transmissions that use very expensive lubes are. A lot of folk find out that the manufacturer's idea of 'life' can be quite short compared to their expectations. The age old trade-off manufacturers play - service intervals and cost Vs making their vehicle more appealing to those not wanting to pay too much over the 'life' of their car.

Anyone who's had a car with an auto gearbox likely knows the fluid needs changing periodically and if never changed its often a horrible smelly thin black liquid, hastening gearbox failure. Be interested to hear if anyone looks into this further and lets us know how.

I get that compared to a regular auto transmission the clutch in our PHEV isn't going to be working as often, but every time it engages and disengages there'll be potential for some slip and therefore abrasive debris released into the fluid. Over time it all adds up, question is how long? Probably longer than the regular warranty for the vehicle (5 years, say), likely the 8 years on the battery too. Beyond that it'd be the owner's cost/problem to sort it, so is 'life' then defined as 8 years at time of design? Sure there are a lot of PHEV's out there still running well beyond that but with no idea if that important part of the system is in good health.

In the same way I've looked at the service guides for details on the chain and tensioners in the ICE and there's nothing. Those don't last forever and ideally do need periodic maintenance to improve longevity. Something I'll certainly look at how/where I can get that work done once I get to around 60K miles. There is someone IIRC around N/NW M25 who occasionally advertises on eBay that does work and could do the chain & tensioner replacement so perhaps knows more on the transmission fluid.

For sure I've seen cars on the bay which have failed ICE and pretty sure I've seen comments about drive not engaging somewhere, so I'd not dismiss this idea too quickly.

Thanks for the response Dave. Definitely some things to consider along the way as the car ages.

 

[Woon Chung]

Personally, I just give the dealer approximately $1000 per year ($20 per week) to manage all the servicing for me.

Even though you said "I just give.." but I strongly believe that there must be a written communication regarding job.

I am curious about how the $1000 has been spent on what kind of jobs done. I would like to copy what you've done on the car. My aim is I keep my car at least 10 years from now without big hassles.

 

[yardbird]

Morning,

I have recently bought a 21 Outlander Phev with 18 K miles.. I have read a number of times during my research that I perhaps should consider changing the transmission fluid. I'm not sure about this and it seems perhaps an unnecessary expense.
Has anyone any familiarity with this advice or have any opinions? It would be appreciated.

Thanks

If you read the owner's manual, there is no transmission in the PHEV but only front and rear transaxle oil to be checked regularly for leakage or seal. The LA Mitsubishi dealer had been recommending Tranny oil services since 30k miles when I went for oil change. Those service managers were desperate for $$. My 2018 PHEV has about 88k mile now & going to local mechanic for services. No more stealer. Last time the mechanic checked the transaxle oil & said no need to change unless it leaks.

 

[ArthurUK]

My 2019 2.4L model was only at 5000miles when I bought it. I changed the Transmission oil front and rear recently.
Most wear occurs with cold starts/short journeys and since by its nature the Hybrid is doing multiple starts it seems sensible to replace what is a low cost consumable.
The service intervals are often decided by the Marketing Dept - Well Audi have a 20,000m interval so we need that too !
I dont trust main dealers, I have had a few instances of shoddy work and attempts at overcharging, so for basic jobs like oil and brakes I do it myself.
I recently (nice hot sunny day) changed the engine oil and replaced the sump plug with a magnetic one.

With the car already up on blocks its easy to replace the transmission fluid.
They both have a 10mm Hex Drain Plug (an allen key needed) and a 17mm Fill plug, open the fill plug to help it drain.
Draining is simple, filling needs a pump, there is not enough clearance to get a squeezy bottle in at the front.
I made a pump with a screen wash bottle pump fitted in a measuring jug, pic attached, worked like a charm.
I used Comma MVATF Plus, the front takes about 2.6L and the back 1L, these are less than the manual states, but I guess it doesnt fully drain.
Whatever, a 5L bottle is all you need.

 

[Roxyman]

My 2019 2.4L model was only at 5000miles when I bought it. I changed the Transmission oil front and rear recently.
Most wear occurs with cold starts/short journeys and since by its nature the Hybrid is doing multiple starts it seems sensible to replace what is a low cost consumable.
The service intervals are often decided by the Marketing Dept - Well Audi have a 20,000m interval so we need that too !
I dont trust main dealers, I have had a few instances of shoddy work and attempts at overcharging, so for basic jobs like oil and brakes I do it myself.
I recently (nice hot sunny day) changed the engine oil and replaced the sump plug with a magnetic one.

With the car already up on blocks its easy to replace the transmission fluid.
They both have a 10mm Hex Drain Plug (an allen key needed) and a 17mm Fill plug, open the fill plug to help it drain.
Draining is simple, filling needs a pump, there is not enough clearance to get a squeezy bottle in at the front.
I made a pump with a screen wash bottle pump fitted in a measuring jug, pic attached, worked like a charm.
I used Comma MVATF Plus, the front takes about 2.6L and the back 1L, these are less than the manual states, but I guess it doesnt fully drain.
Whatever, a 5L bottle is all you need.

Useful post Arthur. I'll get my local garage to do it, I don't have the space now to get the car up on ramps.

 

[ArthurUK]

Useful post Arthur. I'll get my local garage to do it, I don't have the space now to get the car up on ramps.

I should have said the car had (only) done 10,000miles when I changed the Oils.

The transmission drain plugs are magnetic and they had a good coating of ferrous slime on them, this is what I expected.
Much of the wear occurs early on as the gears bed in. So you dont really want that circulating for another 30,000miles.
I fitted a magnetic Sump Plug (M14x1.5) it cost £5, again a no brainer.

As I mentioned the service intervals are pretty much decided by the Marketing team, the Engineers will warn that the (say, Engine Oil) will be Sha**ed well before the proposed interval, but the in Warranty cost and 3 year lease costs dominate the discussion.

Oil is cheap.

 

[HeliNurse]

What sort of nick was the oil in? I am amazed they are not 'sealed for life'.

 

[ArthurUK]

...."The transmission drain plugs are magnetic and they had a good coating of ferrous slime on them"
The Oil was still Red, but that doesn't tell you much.

Sealed for Life is another Marketing Ploy !
Read it as it will eventually fail outside of Warranty.

Changing the Oils is simple enough, compared to replacing the Gearbox Bearings or swapping out the Diff or Gearbox.

 

[Brian_VT]

Can anyone confirm for me, at least on my '22, that the front system has just a drain and level hole? I thought I saw it mentioned that there's also a fill hole, but that sounded odd.

 

[drwho]

Well ... since the PHEV doesn't have a transmission ... well, have fun doing that

Well ... I thought it was funny.
I actually had to think about it when he first asked the question. There's so many things to learn about this vehicle.
My wife keeps forgetting to lock the d*mn thing because it's so different from dealing with a gas car for 50-60 years. (Yes, we're that old)