To consume old fuel, refuel 15L or more...

[STS134]

Disconnect the 12v battery for few seconds ... and enjoy additional 3 months of zero emission from your PHEV

Great way to ruin your engine and fuel system. Here's a better idea: burn off the old fuel, down to the point of getting a low fuel warning. And then ONLY fill it with 15L of fuel. You don't fill a plane's tank up to full unless you will be using the fuel on the next trip, right? So if these folks almost never use the ICE, they shouldn't be filling the tank all the way.

I put some fuel in it yesterday evening but is wasn't enough to remove the alert. I think we got caught out in June by the alert so had to put fuel in it then as well.

The car's been sitting on the driveway since the middle of July and has only done 20 or so miles since then, only found out yesterday as fired it up to check/re-inflate the tyres.

Was planning on driving it on Save or Charge in the meantime ... though don't want the engine rattling away when stuck at traffic lights etc.

I think Mitsubishi's implementation is bad. It shouldn't require 15L of fuel, it should require replacing most of the fuel (a percentage). The tank size is about 40L and if you get the alert with 40L of fuel, that means you can get rid of it by consuming 15L and refilling...but that only replaces 35-40% of the fuel. It's way better to only fill to 15L, consume all of it, and fill again to 15L, thus giving yourself a fresh tank of fuel (and way better for your engine too).

 

[elm70]

Disconnect the 12v battery for few seconds ... and enjoy additional 3 months of zero emission from your PHEV

Great way to ruin your engine and fuel system. Here's a better idea: burn off the old fuel, down to the point of getting a low fuel warning. And then ONLY fill it with 15L of fuel. You don't fill a plane's tank up to full unless you will be using the fuel on the next trip, right? So if these folks almost never use the ICE, they shouldn't be filling the tank all the way.

I don't know what is worst ...

Have tank empty forcing to use the last liquid in the fuel tank (which could have dirt or some surprises)

Or keep 6/9 months fuel in a air tight tank

If the tank is full ... the fuel inside does not really change any property since the air inside the tank is too little to cause any change in the fuel structure

Still ... is better at least once a year to be able to cycle the fuel in the tank

EDIT: At least this is ok with normal fuel ... if lot of alcohol or other bio stuff is added in the fuel ... I'm not sure how this can age inside the tank

 

[AndyInOz]

When I get that warning, it reminds me that I haven't visited my country friends recently enough.

Get in the car and go for a nice cruisy country drive man!

:lol:

 

[twosout]

Unless the tank is emptied from time to time, there will always be an element of stale fuel present. You simply dilute the concentration of it by adding fresh.
I guess Mitsubishi reckon that adding at least 15L every three months will maintain any stale content at a workable level.

 

[elm70]

Maybe somebody has better information to share about "old" fuel

I did discover the issue with "old" fuel in the hard way ... but never in a car.

My lawnmower traditionally sitting in the winter with the fuel in its tank .. the first start up of the season is more problematic, but once started, except for a bit less power, I don't notice any special issue

The biggest evidence is on a 2 stroke dirt pocket bike ... it took me a while to understand why sometime it was starting from cold on 1st shot, and while sometime was extremely complicated ... these pocket bike have a "open tank" .. so the cap has a hole for allow ventilation else there will be less air pressure in the tank compared to outdoor, and it will be a challenge to keep the fuel flow

Still .. once the bike start, except for a luck of power ... I don't see any special issue using old fuel.

Now ... our PHEV has a sealed tank, so there is no ventilation, so the fuel does not really lose any important element inside due to evaporation and dispersion of some elements.

My BMW cabrio also sit for almost full winter unused ... and I never seen any issue due to old fuel at start up.

I believe this is an excessive precaution from Mitsubishi ... yes fuel left exposed for only few days to air, does lose important properties and can cause "difficulty" in the ICE to start up ... but ... I don't believe there is any aeration / ventilation and relevant evaporation happening in our PHEV tank

I can be wrong ... so if you know some fact and have real experience, it will be interesting to know.

PS: Fuel in Europe has no Alcohol inside, maybe fuel with some % of alcohol can cause problem if it sitting too long in the tank ...

 

[ThudnBlundr]

All UK fuel, apart from a couple of premium grades, contains ethanol. I thought the EU mandated that a certain proportion of fuel had to be bioethanol, which is causing problems due to lack of bioethanol

Of course any alcohol will absorb any water, which will tend to sit under the fuel, right where many cars have the fuel pickup in their tank. This can lead to issues with cars stored over-winter. I've had to treat the tank of my MG as it often used to sit for many weeks without moving. (In fact, it's sat for over a year now as I plumb in the new engine )

I'm not sure how the PHEV tank can be sealed, as any expansion/contraction due to heat/cold must be accommodated somehow

 

[windymiller]

All the fuel we use in our 3 PHEV $Works is stabilised with POR15 Fuel Stabiliser, as we only ever fuel them from jerry cans, unless on a longer drive off island. The strategy we use is to keep the tanks so empty most of the time that the computer doesnt even want to start the engine, as its on the 2nd stage "Refuel Warning". Then, if the need arises, we can put a few litres of fuel in for the drive in hand. Works most of the time. But at the moment, we have one PHEV which has taken a major huff, and will not revert to EV mode, irrespective of how much fuel it gets. Its been run to near empty, filled to the top, but still it complains it needs to run down the fuel. Its been down and up a few times over the last 6 weeks, and still will not reset. Maybe time for a battery disconnect......

As a strategy, I think Mitsubishi have been a bit naive on this one, as there is now sensible way to take account of stabilised fuel.

 

[PaulFromDe]

...The strategy we use is to keep the tanks so empty most of the time that the computer doesnt even want to start the engine, as its on the 2nd stage "Refuel Warning".

I tried this, but it did not work. I installed a switch in the fuel tank sensor wire with three positions (in my 2016 Outlander PHEV):

• real sensor
• tank almost full
• tank very empty

I just did this, because I expected the car to do a little bit more EV-mode when the fuel tank seems to be empty.
When I switch to "very empty", the car indicates this, with quick blinking symbol. But when I tried to use the drive battery a little below 30% state of charge, the ICE started. The same with charged battery but a little too much pressure on the throttle. No difference to a full tank.
So the switch is almost useless. But sometimes in the summer, when the car runs only EV-Mode for about six months, it's nice to have it. One day when I wanted to drive home from work, the ICE started because of "old fuel". After switching to "empty" for some seconds and back to "real" the charge-mode was gone.
Now I toggle the switch every month in the summer, so the car thinks some fuel has been replaced.
In the summer I always fill expensive "SUPER-Plus" fuel without ethanol in the tank, so up to now there were no problems with it.

What exact car model do you have, that "doesnt even want to start the engine". Are you able to get below 30% SOC?
Maybe there is some other information than the fuel gauge. With an real empty tank the car could notice that there is no fuel pressure?
Any ideas how it works?

 

[windymiller]

What exact car model do you have, that "doesnt even want to start the engine". Are you able to get below 30% SOC?
Maybe there is some other information than the fuel gauge. With an real empty tank the car could notice that there is no fuel pressure?
Any ideas how it works?

Its the van versions actually, rather than the car. Not sure how it works, but if the rapid refuel light is on, and the battery is anywhere like charged, it seems to happily run on the battery. Except as mentioned, for one, that will now not run on the battery at all, irrespective of the contents of the fuel tank, and permanently says its consuming old fuel.

 

[Stevepl11]

So many people want to make this more difficult than it has to be.

Sometimes the engine will start because you (me) carelessly hit the accelerator too hard before choosing EV mode, or pushed it all the down and activated the "Give me all you've got" mode. There's a switch with a detent at the end of pedal travel. That being so, it's a really good idea to intentionally choose charge mode occassionally and run the engine up to full temperature. I used to try to remember this about once a week. Sometimes I forgot to do that. But it is a good thing to do since it evaporates any water in the oil, plus ensures oil circulation and helps prevent sludge formation. And you will use some fuel in the process and you will need to replace it sometime.

So eventually after 3 months you get the "Consuming Old Fuel" message. In a sealed system there should not be any evaporation so deterioration ought not be a problem. If you are not ready to add 15 litres to cause a reset you could disconnect the battery, BUT there is an easier way.

Open the bonnet. Remove the cover from the main fuse block. There is a green 30 amp fuse with a yellow remover on it. This fuse is identified as IOD. This stands for Igniton Off Draw, it supplies those things that remain live when the car is...Off. Pull it out. Wait a few seconds, put it back. Job done. The older fuel timer is reset. No tools needed.

 

[DibbyDibbyDJ]

Fuel going stale in the fuel injector rail is a problem with cars purely run as EV.

Yes it is fine to disconnect the 12v battery for a few seconds, this resets the timer for 3 months, but you do not want the stale fuel anywhere in the system as it does corrode parts over time.

Here in australia, where the fuel is of terrible quality, this has caused problems with high mileage vehicles, and of course it is not covered by warranty, as it is not a manufacturing defect.

Fuel stabilisers or improvers are available to help reduce the effects.

best advice i give is to use the car as it was intended, if you want a pure EV there are plenty out there now

 

[STS134]

Well I never thought I would EVER hit this condition but with the pandemic, I'm now at 43 days and have consumed 0 drops of gasoline. It's starting to look possible that I might see this message pop in my car in another 47 days...

 

[ChrisMiller]

I'm in much the same position, STS134. Does anyone know whether the message is triggered only if there has been absolutely zero use of the ICE? Would a single short engine start resulting from an over-enthusiastic use of accelerator be sufficient to prevent its display?

 

[HHL]

I'm in much the same position, STS134. Does anyone know whether the message is triggered only if there has been absolutely zero use of the ICE? Would a single short engine start resulting from an over-enthusiastic use of accelerator be sufficient to prevent its display?

The answer is no. In fact, once the stale fuel warning is triggered, the engine will start every time you use the car, until you have added about 15l to the tank. So, if it happens when your tank is already full you might have to drive about 200km so you can put that much in.

 

[ChrisMiller]

Thanks HHL. But I'm really trying to find out how to stop the warning from triggering, Would a single, short run of the engine during a 90-day period be enough?

 

[ps44]

Slightly screwed here as I filled the tank just before lockdown as we had a long journey planned which then didn't happen. And what little driving I'm doing now is just in EV mode. May need to start siphoning out fuel to use in the lawn mower :mrgreen:

 

[jdsx]

Slightly screwed here as I filled the tank just before lockdown as we had a long journey planned which then didn't happen. And what little driving I'm doing now is just in EV mode. May need to start siphoning out fuel to use in the lawn mower :mrgreen:

Same here ps44, except I've now got a battery mower as well! I believe disconnecting the 12V battery 're-starts' the clock, but I'm not certain as I've never had to do it yet....

EDIT: just seen this from earlier in the thread :

Open the bonnet. Remove the cover from the main fuse block. There is a green 30 amp fuse with a yellow remover on it. This fuse is identified as IOD. This stands for Igniton Off Draw, it supplies those things that remain live when the car is...Off. Pull it out. Wait a few seconds, put it back. Job done. The older fuel timer is reset. No tools needed.

 

[STS134]

Slightly screwed here as I filled the tank just before lockdown as we had a long journey planned which then didn't happen. And what little driving I'm doing now is just in EV mode. May need to start siphoning out fuel to use in the lawn mower :mrgreen:

Same here ps44, except I've now got a battery mower as well! I believe disconnecting the 12V battery 're-starts' the clock, but I'm not certain as I've never had to do it yet....

EDIT: just seen this from earlier in the thread :

Open the bonnet. Remove the cover from the main fuse block. There is a green 30 amp fuse with a yellow remover on it. This fuse is identified as IOD. This stands for Igniton Off Draw, it supplies those things that remain live when the car is...Off. Pull it out. Wait a few seconds, put it back. Job done. The older fuel timer is reset. No tools needed.

I wouldn't do that. I also filled my tank just prior to the lockdown, but seriously, there's a reason for this fuel timer and it's to prevent your ICE from being damaged by bad fuel. Just burn through the fuel, siphon it out if you have another vehicle or machine you can burn that much fuel in, refill with exactly 15L (if the lockdown is still in effect at that time), and then get another 3 months. I'd also run the engine a bit just after refilling the tank to get new fuel into the fuel lines between the fuel pump and the engine.

 

[greendwarf]

We had lots of discussion about this in the early days. The key is not the burning of the fuel but the 15l refuelling every 90 days. So if you had an empty tank, it would appear that you could go a year on pure EV without getting the warning by putting in 15l every 3 months. :idea:

The only way of fooling the system is to pull the fuse, as above, or siphoning out 15l and then putting it back in.

One word of warning - as I recall, the only time I got this, the car ran the ICE continuously, so consumption was about 12 miles per gallon around London until I got enough head room.

 

[ChrisMiller]

Thanks greendwarf, I filled up 19th March and haven't used a drop since, so if nothing changes before mid-June (unlikely in my personal view, I don't think the current UK lockdown can continue for another 6 weeks, whatever the epidemiologists say) I may have to resort to the fuse trick. Presumably this rests some other stuff as well, my biggest worry would be having to resync the Wifi app (and find my bit of paper with the magic password written on it)