Love the car - but 30 miles on EV?

[Tweeds]

Are you saying that the motors' efficiency is uniform across the speed range?

I would have expected that there would be an optimum speed where they were at their most efficient.

 

[maby]

Are you saying that the motors' efficiency is uniform across the speed range?

I would have expected that there would be an optimum speed where they were at their most efficient.

Certainly true of petrol engines, but electric motors are pretty constant across their speed range. The issue is down to drag - that does increase with speed.

On petrol vehicles, the optimum speed for fuel economy is going to be determined by a combination of the characteristics of the engine, the gear ratios available and the size and shape of the vehicle which determines the drag coefficient. On an electrically powered vehicle, there are generally no gears and the efficiency of the motors will be pretty much the same across the full rated speed range, hence one would expect that the EV range would be pretty much inversely proportional to speed.

 

[greendwarf]

I would expect to get higher range traveled at the slower speeds. I was recently in Sydney with the old PHEV and was stuck in traffic for hours and was very thankful the EV did all the work, keeping the car and me cool.

Sorry but going to disagree on this with you. It wouldn't make any difference if you are traveling slow or fast, you should get the same range as long as you are carefull with the accelerator. Doesn't matter what type of vehicle it is, ICE, PHEV or standard hybrid, heavy urban traffic (repeated stop & go) would produce worst range (mileage), beacuse it takes muach more energy/fuel to get going compared to going at a steady speed.

No, no, no! Drag increases rapidly with speed (with the square of speed, if my memory serves me right) - it takes a lot more energy to keep a car moving at 100mph than it does to keep the same car moving at 60mph.

Surely you are both right - stop start driving & drag will harm consumption but in traffic queues there are likely to be more opportunities for gliding/regen to help compensate and Sydney is relatively flat in the city.

 

[maby]

...

Surely you are both right - stop start driving & drag will harm consumption but in traffic queues there are likely to be more opportunities for gliding/regen to help compensate and Sydney is relatively flat in the city.

It is possible that I misinterpreted ufo's posting. Rereading it, I guess he may have been referring to the specific context of driving in heavy traffic - in which case he is correct - speeds will be low and drag characteristics will not have much impact. I interpreted his posting as saying that, in general, EV range is not dependent on speed - and that is certainly not true.

 

[Ozukus]

So yesterday with a more mild temperature and no need to defrost the vehicle my 34 mile trip to the office achieved just over 100mpg as ICE didn't need to kick in as often for heating and no waiting for the screen to demist/defrost.

Arrived at the office with 2 miles of EV remaining. I know that ICE and regen added to the battery charge but quite happy with that. When I added in the results of the return trip around the bottom of the M25 (no charge points at work) my average for the commute was around 65MPG which puts it smack bang on my old Yaris 1.4 DiD average, so extremely chuffed with that, especially knowing once the work charge points are in I will be quids in.

On another note on the way in I attempted, and will say attempted, to charge the vehicle at a rapid charger at Heston Services since I was so early.

Trying to use these in the dark for the first time, with no instructions is not a good idea.

Couldn't understand why no charge so thought was a faulty unit and went in to get a cuppa leaving the cable attached (looked good sort of smoke and mirrors though), on return tried to get the thing off, and got to the point thinking I'm stuck here.

Continuing to try and get it off I noticed the dash light up saying charger connected which gave me the understanding :idea: of how the connection actually worked, allowing me to get it disconnected. So no charge but hopefully better experience next time with it.

 

[mlf]

Here in Australia the EV range is quoted at 52km.

I to had thought this was a myth as well, only to be achieved in strictly controlled test conditions.

My PHEV, the Aspire model, Actic Silver, with all the factory std options was recently replaced. I am on number 3 now. The first PHEV had reduced, best EV range of 43km for a flat, minimum turns, rural test circuit, and regen was only effective in the lower half of the battery capacity. Mitsubishi generously supplied me with a loan PHEV, the same model but in grey, to compare with. This vehicle could manage 45km without much trouble and the regen was effective up to about 80% full battery. Had none of the computer problems, but still had a LHS HID issue. Mitsubishi investigated the battery of my original PHEV and decided to replace my original PHEV.

Many months later, I finally have a replacement PHEV. Not NEW, but close enough.

Have not had time to test drive on the flat circuit, but on another EV test drive circuit with steep hills and B roads as well as town driving, the replacement managed 51.6km on the full battery. The battery took 11.6kWh to refill. This replacement PHEV has very effective regen, even when almost fully charged. This is what I expected from my new car almost 6 months ago, but it never seemed to be right. This replacement PHEV just shows the huge variability in performance that appears to result with apparently small differences in the battery. BTW the ambient temp was 21C, so even though AirCon was on, probably not much energy needed to keep cabin temp at 23C, only fresh air and the fans.

I would be investigating the battery, having ruled out any other factors, if the PHEV was not giving expected EV range. It seems like all PHEV are not made equally well.

Hi gwatpe, i went today to the dealer to analize the battery with MUT3 test and the result was 34,6 Ah on full batttery 329 volts and 15.000 km? .... there was others issues that arent well but they have to ask to the Mitsubishi Portugal technician for more information!? What do you think about this Number 34,6 Ah x 329v= 11,38KW .
Thanks

 

[SMB]

The cold weather seems to have a really big impact. After a full charge last night it only read a range of 15 miles this morning which was a bit depressing, however it did manage 21 miles before going flat. Nothing like 30 however.

 

[maby]

The cold weather seems to have a really big impact. After a full charge last night it only read a range of 15 miles this morning which was a bit depressing, however it did manage 21 miles before going flat. Nothing like 30 however.

Certainly does - I reckon I'm doing well to actually get 16 miles. All cars are a lot less efficient in cold weather - you just don't have the instrumentation on a conventional car to see how badly it is doing. Mind you, the 30 figure is optimistic in the summer - I have got it once or twice, but only under ideal conditions.

 

[gwatpe]

Hi gwatpe, i went today to the dealer to analize the battery with MUT3 test and the result was 34,6 Ah on full batttery 329 volts and 15.000 km? .... there was others issues that arent well but they have to ask to the Mitsubishi Portugal technician for more information!? What do you think about this Number 34,6 Ah x 329v= 11,38KW .
Thanks

The battery capacity is supposed to be 40Ah. Mitsubishi have claimed that in the life of the vehicle, the battery is expected to lose a maximum of 20% of its total capacity. Others have suggested that most of the lost capacity will occur early in the battery life. This is not what I have observed with battery systems I have experience with.

The battery in your car has lost 5.4Ah from the 40Ah. 15000km is early into the battery expected life. My car had a similar loss in capacity from new.

I am convinced that the measurement systems in the car are pretty ordinary and the reported numbers are very subjective and coupled with driving style and the weather etc etc, that a lot has to be wrong with your car before a dealer will investigate further.

I suspect that if it wasn't for the very close call we had with the loss of control when a sensor failed, coupled with the battery measured loss of capacity as well as the host of computer faults, that my PHEV would not have been replaced.

Good luck with your dealer getting your car back to what it should be.

 

[mlf]

Hi gwatpe, i went today to the dealer to analize the battery with MUT3 test and the result was 34,6 Ah on full batttery 329 volts and 15.000 km? .... there was others issues that arent well but they have to ask to the Mitsubishi Portugal technician for more information!? What do you think about this Number 34,6 Ah x 329v= 11,38KW .
Thanks

The battery capacity is supposed to be 40Ah. Mitsubishi have claimed that in the life of the vehicle, the battery is expected to lose a maximum of 20% of its total capacity. Others have suggested that most of the lost capacity will occur early in the battery life. This is not what I have observed with battery systems I have experience with.

The battery in your car has lost 5.4Ah from the 40Ah. 15000km is early into the battery expected life. My car had a similar loss in capacity from new.

I am convinced that the measurement systems in the car are pretty ordinary and the reported numbers are very subjective and coupled with driving style and the weather etc etc, that a lot has to be wrong with your car before a dealer will investigate further.

I suspect that if it wasn't for the very close call we had with the loss of control when a sensor failed, coupled with the battery measured loss of capacity as well as the host of computer faults, that my PHEV would not have been replaced.

Good luck with your dealer getting your car back to what it should be.

Thanks wgtape i will keep you informed !

 

[pefo01]

Today we got 50 km. No heating, +2 Deg (Celsius). Paddles worn out

 

[maby]

Today we got 50 km. No heating, +2 Deg (Celsius). Paddles worn out

You are a very brave (or foolhardy) man to do 50km in 2 degrees ambient without heating!

 

[anko]

Others have suggested that most of the lost capacity will occur early in the battery life. This is not what I have observed with battery systems I have experience with.

Well, this could be true, as I have 4 different numbers:

40.0 Ah @ 0 km - the official number upon delivery
37.8 Ah @ 0 km - the actual number upon delivery
34.5 Ah @ 22315 km
34.2 Ah @ 30679 km

So, al loss of 3.3 Ah over 22315 km and then a loss of 0.3 over 8364 km. Although the numbers themselves are very alarming, it does suggest that loss of capacity was strongest at the beginning.

BTW: according to official docs by Mitsubishi, the battery was supposed to be 40 Ah * 300 V = 12.000 kWh. If the 300 V is indeed the voltage to deal with, my battery has been under performing from the beginning (37.8 * 300 = 11,34 kWh, not 12 kWh). If the voltage to deal with is 330 volt, then my battery would have been over performing (37.8 * 330 = 12.47 kWh) which I don't believe. So, if 300 is the number, I am now at 34.2 * 300 = 10.26 kWh. This kind a matches my findings that I am generally not able to get in more than 8.4 kWh.

 

[maby]

How are these measurements taken? I could well imagine that the same battery could return two quite different figures on successive days if the tests are run at significantly different temperatures.

 

[anko]

40.0 Ah @ 0 km - unknown
37.8 Ah @ 0 km - early november, 2013
34.5 Ah @ 22315 km - august, 2014
34.2 Ah @ 30679 km - december 2014

Indeed, the difference between the second and third reading was emphasised by the fact that it was winter versus summer. It enhanced my state of shock.

To my knowledge the values are are not so much measurements from then and there. The process is to quick. I believe values are read from the Battery Management System: the BSM monitors and knows the battery condition and all they do is retrieve the data. Hopefully, that would make the reading less sensitive to mood swings.

 

[mlf]

40.0 Ah @ 0 km - unknown
37.8 Ah @ 0 km - early november, 2013
34.5 Ah @ 22315 km - august, 2014
34.2 Ah @ 30679 km - december 2014

Indeed, the difference between the second and third reading was emphasised by the fact that it was winter versus summer. It enhanced my state of shock.

To my knowledge the values are are not so much measurements from then and there. The process is to quick. I believe values are read from the Battery Management System: the BSM monitors and knows the battery condition and all they do is retrieve the data. Hopefully, that would make the reading less sensitive to mood swings.

is There any obd2 software for android to read the battery status?

 

[SMB]

The EV range is really disappointing in this cold weather, this morning on a full charge my range was showing as 17 miles which is nearly half what is promised. I only took delivery of the car at the end of November so haven’t experienced warmer weather yet. Does the range improve considerably during the summer months?

 

[maby]

The EV range is really disappointing in this cold weather, this morning on a full charge my range was showing as 17 miles which is nearly half what is promised. I only took delivery of the car at the end of November so haven’t experienced warmer weather yet. Does the range improve considerably during the summer months?

It certainly improves, but the 32 miles that is mentioned is definitely optimistic. Following discussion here, I ran a test under absolutely optimum conditions - temperature around 22 degrees, tyres fully inflated, battery fully charged, cruising at 30 to 40mph on flat roads with little traffic, aircon off, car lightly loaded - I got 29.5 miles on EV. Using the car "normally", I expect to get around 25 miles EV range in warm weather.

Don't take too much notice of the predicted EV range on the display - it is notoriously inaccurate.

 

[user 258]

This kind a matches my findings that I am generally not able to get in more than 8.4 kWh.

Hi,
On the two occasions I depleted the battery and remembered to check the power meter before and after charging, the car took 12.2KWh both times. This is via the standard 13A supplied charger.
Since the battery can only use a little under 8KWh before being depleted does this mean that my battery is defective (although range in summer is 26-28 miles) and takes more power to charge than it should or does it mean that the Mitsubishi charging system is extremely inefficient?
Kind regards,
Mark

 

[user 258]

40.0 Ah @ 0 km - unknown
37.8 Ah @ 0 km - early november, 2013
34.5 Ah @ 22315 km - august, 2014
34.2 Ah @ 30679 km - december 2014

Indeed, the difference between the second and third reading was emphasised by the fact that it was winter versus summer. It enhanced my state of shock.

To my knowledge the values are are not so much measurements from then and there. The process is to quick. I believe values are read from the Battery Management System: the BSM monitors and knows the battery condition and all they do is retrieve the data. Hopefully, that would make the reading less sensitive to mood swings.

is There any obd2 software for android to read the battery status?

Hi,
I haven't managed to find any. Not to even read the SOC.
Kind regards,
Mark