Some PHEV tidbits

[jaapv]

Issues or disagreements with the designers?

 

[maby]

Issues or disagreements with the designers?

Is there a difference? I didn't say "faults"... Most of the things he is complaining about have been discussed here before and at least a fraction of the owner base has expressed some dissatisfaction with them. One man's design fault is another man's design feature!

 

[elm70]

Or he really bought a lemon - or an unserviced car and is struggling with inadequate dealers.

.. you wish :ugeek:

It is not a Lemon ... fully serviced by NL dealers, and in perfect condition.. NL service should be the best for PHEV since the NL market is the biggest

But yes ... local service here sucks ... it is also looking sad too .. same "local brand" own official agreement with multiple car companies (Ford, Mitsubishi, Suzuk, etci) .. Ford division is huge and blinking .. Mitsubishi division is on a more hidden spot ... not blinking at all .. and looking a very lonely place

I would say here Mitsubishi is not popular ... and PHEV is an alien

But ... the level of local service is my "fault" ... I could not expect else from where I'm located

 

[jaapv]

Issues or disagreements with the designers?

Is there a difference? I didn't say "faults"... Most of the things he is complaining about have been discussed here before and at least a fraction of the owner base has expressed some dissatisfaction with them. One man's design fault is another man's design feature!

Always flattered when quoted back

 

[ian4x4]

A lot of the 'updates and improvements' seen during the life of the Outlander PHEV, have appeared on this forum as issues or merely a future wish list.

I am sure these forums are monitored by the makers, therefore I would encourage forum members to say what they see would be as improvements to the Outlander, or even wishes for the development of future Mitsubishi PHEV (or of any other manufacture?)

It takes time and money to develop these features and get them reliable and cheap enough to apply to the car, so you need to be patient.

If you can't live without a certain function (or whatever) on a car, you need to buy another, either a later model of the same, or something completely different.

 

[elm70]

Issues or disagreements with the designers?

Is there a difference? I didn't say "faults"... Most of the things he is complaining about have been discussed here before and at least a fraction of the owner base has expressed some dissatisfaction with them. One man's design fault is another man's design feature!

Some people, especially the one in the forum .. are very sensible about their own car.

I was almost "killed" in the BMW forum when I was stating that the my BMW X1 was not braking as good as my previous BMW 320D ...

Actually I later find out that it was a sort of bad design issue ... when snow or wet .. for some reason the brakes got very wet/dirty .. and on the first usage they were not responsive .. something never experience so dramatically in other cars before

Anyhow ... when I get a new car, I'm always looking info in forum .. and I'm always quite critic on my new car (I don't see much value on speaking of what it is perfect, for me it is valuable to speak out the defects to be improved) ... so ... I know there are many proud owner ... and it is hard to speak about any problems

 

[anko]

I don't think it is so much what you say, but how you say it. Your statements are in most cases not (objective) observations. In most cases they are plain accusations ....

I mean, sure you can say you don't like this or that. But you always have to add how ridiculous it is, that it was not designed how you would have liked it. And how braindead the engineers must have been... Etc. Becomes kinda annoying after a while ....

I can easily imagine the IBM forum moderators wanting to ditch you, if you used the same tone of voice as you do here.

 

[geoffshep69]

I don't think it is so much what you say, but how you say it. Your statements are in most cases not (objective) observations. In most cases they are plain accusations ....

I mean, sure you can say you don't like this or that. But you always have to add how ridiculous it is, that it was not designed how you would have liked it. And how braindead the engineers must have been... Etc. Becomes kinda annoying after a while ....

I can easily imagine the IBM forum moderators wanting to ditch you, if you used the same tone of voice as you do here.

Agreed. I dont think anyone on here has a problem with anyone who comes on to make observations, suggestions or even criticisms about things on the car. But when we are continually told that these are bugs (when they are not, thats just how the car was designed) and/or that it is all part of some terrible conspiracy by Mitsubishi to get more money out of us, it gets a bit wearing after a while.

 

[elm70]

Yes ... sometime I like to use bold statement.

But it is not an opinion that this PHEV is NOT a masterpiece of engineering .. it is a fact ... you can see many bad engineering decision all over the car.

Multiple bugs on the MMCS
1cm of acceleration travel control without engage ICE
Unwanted ICE starts when battery is fully charge as good morning in a cold day
Very high fuel consumption when battery goes to "zero"
Poor acceleration
Poor top speed
Dummy WiFi Password that can't be recover if it is lost
etc etc

 

[jaapv]

Poor acceleration? 0-100 in 9.9 sec? That is the same or better as most SUVs in its class....
http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=767
And yes top speed is limited to 170 kph, as there is no gear box that speeed corresponds to the max sustainable RPM of the ICE.
However, being an experienced Autobahn driver and haven driven cars that would cruise up to 250 in the past over long distances, I can assure you that the ease with which the car gets up to that 170 is far more important - and that is excellent. It is 30 kph over the Polish speed limit anyway.

 

[geoffshep69]

Yes ... sometime I like to use bold statement.

But it is not an opinion that this PHEV is NOT a masterpiece of engineering .. it is a fact ... you can see many bad engineering decision all over the car.

Multiple bugs on the MMCS
1cm of acceleration travel control without engage ICE
Unwanted ICE starts when battery is fully charge as good morning in a cold day
Very high fuel consumption when battery goes to "zero"
Poor acceleration
Poor top speed
Dummy WiFi Password that can't be recover if it is lost
etc etc

It seems to me that you are in the wrong job, as clearly you should have been a car designer. I look forward to you bringing out a 2 ton SUV that accelerates from 0-60mph in 7 seconds, has a top speed of 150+ mph, returns 50+mpg in petrol mode, has a battery range of 200+ miles, has the off road capability of a Land Rover, the interior comfort level of a Rolls Royce and costs less than £30k.

Let me know when youve ironed out a few 'bugs' and your car is ready for the market.

 

[ian4x4]

geoeffshep69 wrote It seems to me that you are in the wrong job, as clearly you should have been a car designer. I look forward to you bringing out a 2 ton SUV that accelerates from 0-60mph in 7 seconds, has a top speed of 150+ mph, returns 50+mpg in petrol mode, has a battery range of 200+ miles, has the off road capability of a Land Rover, the interior comfort level of a Rolls Royce and costs less than £30k

Now you are talking! Perhaps we should put it on our wish list.
Can you put me on the list to buy one.

 

[jaapv]

Somebody just told me that Mitsubishi hs offered him a 500.000 $ a year job... :twisted: :mrgreen:

 

[Claymore]

I'm told that despite my optimism I can't sing a note in tune, I can't play any musical instruments but when I'm listening to someone who is being paid to entertain me I can tell when they play or sing a bum note.

I'm perfectly entitled to observe that they, the professional putting themselves in front of me for hard cash, have done so.

If someone suggested that I should try to do better I may observe that if I was taking the money that they were then maybe that criticism would be justified. But it is not.

If I was trying to post on a Polish language site it is likely that I would completely fail as I don't speak a word of Polish and even if I did my British inflections may be misinterpreted by the Polish audience.

To be frank, I agree with Elm70s sentiments.

I really like the car but also agree with the fact that there are so many stupid minor niggles that they never make any attempt to correct (most just firmware updates that you would expect to routinely get on your TV or Amplifier or whatever) that you have to wonder if Mitsu give a rat's whatever about the user's experience.

Unlike most of the users of this car I paid out my own hard cash for the thing and if it plays bum notes I feel quite entitled to note that without being invited to do the job of car designer or customer service operation that many individuals already paid handsome salaries apparently can't be bothered to do.

I've had a Sony PlayStation PS3 since it was launched (could it be 10 years now?) simply because it was one of the best Blu-ray players available at the time and it never ceases to amaze me that Sony continue to issue firmware updates for it despite launching several new iterations through the years.

That cost a few hundred pounds / euros.

The list price for my Outlander was going on for £40,000...and in terms of firmware support it seems that you get nothing.

That, frankly, is pathetic.

 

[HHL]

Somebody just told me that Mitsubishi hs offered him a 500.000 $ a year job... :twisted: :mrgreen:

That would be YEN..... he only needs to work part time with all that knowledge.......

But, seriously, the Outlander is still an engineering masterpiece in spite of the few quirks that can be a bit annoying. There still is no other electric vehicle quite like it (they are coming though!)

 

[anko]

The list price for my Outlander was going on for £40,000...and in terms of firmware support it seems that you get nothing.

That, frankly, is pathetic.

Claymore,

Over the years, I have had more that one firmware update to fix little issues. Maybe not the one I hoped for the most (pure EV mode) but that is a different story. Okay, it is is not at Tesla level. But I don't see much difference to any other car / car manufacturer that I have dealt with before. And there have been a fa few. The main difference I see, is the fact that my wish list is much taller than it was ever before, as I am (we are) scrutinising the behaviour of the car and analysing it to death. Simple because it is so much more than just a car ...

What Elm70 and you seem to forget (and I often forget myself ) is that there is a difference between expressing facts and opinions and expressing opinions as if they are facts. Whether or not the 'firmware update situation' is pathetic or not is an opinion, expressed here as if it was a fact. It leaves no room for other other opinions. When pushed in a corner, people will try to fight their way out if it. Whether or not they agree with you on the real facts does not matter anymore.

 

[elm70]

0-100 in 9.9 ... yes this is a PHEV forum with lot of lovers
Mitsubishi declared it at 11 seconds: http://mitsubishi-motors.ie/car/outlander-phev/

For a car with 200HP combined power is a poor result
Mercedes, BMW, Volvo PHEV, all have 0-100 under 7 seconds.

Anyhow, slow acceleration is by design ... there is no technical reason for reduce the huge torque available from the electric motor ... like tesla and other producer are taking advantage ... but in Mitsubishi they decided to "save" this "possibility" ... a decision that is also acceptable ... per my "understanding" PHEV designers decided to extend the life of battery and power train at expense of "performance"

------------------------

In the list of features in the previous page ... I did not post one that is quite "funny"

On MMCS -> Info -> Trip -> "Eco Info?" ... it is possible to have a random number generator updated every 30 seconds ... the number associated to kwh/100km :mrgreen: ... this jump up and down without any sense between 0 and 28kwh/km

It a free entrainment feature

Anyhow ... the list of "features" is so long .. that I will open a dedicated thread for it ... :ugeek:

PS: BTW ... I'm not a blind eater of the PHEV ... for the price that I paid for mine, it is for sure good value for the money ... but the fact that in less then 3 years the PHEV loose more then 50% of its price, it should ring a bell to somebody .. as said already countless time: the fundamental design , with 2 eMotors (for 4x4 and maximum energy recovery), no gearbox and parallel ICE and ePower, combined with 12kwh battery ... it is brilliant and unique .... unfortunately here and there many "strange" decisions and bugs did effect the end result .. which it could have been "outstanding" ... instead ... it is "just ok" ...

 

[anko]

0-100 in 9.9 ... yes this is a PHEV forum with lot of lovers
Mitsubishi declared it at 11 seconds: http://mitsubishi-motors.ie/car/outlander-phev/

For a car with 200HP combined power is a poor result
Mercedes, BMW, Volvo PHEV, all have 0-100 under 7 seconds.

Mitsubishi has decided to build a car without a 'normal' gear box. So, the ICE cannot propel the car at speeds below 60 km/h. All of the other cars do have a 'normal' gear box so they can effectively be driven as ICE cars with additional E support. Obviously Mitsubishi's decision has consequences for the 0-100 time. You should either accept these consequences or you should move on to another car that does meet your requirements. Like the Merc, BMW or Volvo. Or should have moved on, like I suggested to you here: http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2309&p=31786#p31786.

It is not that you did not know upfront. So, if mistakes were made, who made them? What you do would be similar to me buying a small city car against better judgement, and then complain that it has design issues, as it cannot carry much luggage, where other cars can.

 

[jaapv]

0-100 in 9.9 ... yes this is a PHEV forum with lot of lovers
Mitsubishi declared it at 11 seconds: http://mitsubishi-motors.ie/car/outlander-phev/

They sure were conservative, weren't they?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbOmtzFj14M

As Anko said, the car only uses 60 kW electric power up to 60 kph, and I advise you to study the torque/power/speed curves of electric motors.

(*not aPHEV motor, but a general example)

 

[elm70]

Mitsubishi has decided to build a car without a 'normal' gear box. So, the ICE cannot propel the car at speeds below 60 km/h. All of the other cars do have a 'normal' gear box so they can effectively be driven as ICE cars with additional E support. Obviously Mitsubishi's decision has consequences for the 0-100 time. You should either accept these consequences or you should move on to another car that does meet your requirements. Like the Merc, BMW or Volvo. Or should have moved on, like I suggested to you here: http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2309&p=31786#p31786.

It is not that you did not know upfront. So, if mistakes were made, who made them? What you do would be similar to me buying a small city car against better judgement, and then complain that it has design issues, as it cannot carry much luggage, where other cars can.

ICE and gear box has nothing to do with acceleration

Look at tesla .. no gearbox, no ICE, direct eMotor driving the car on a "single"gear ... and acceleration better than a ferrari .. also the "simple" model 3 will have under 7 sec for 0-100

120kw electric engine alone could make a better acceleration for a 2 tons 4x4 car ... but ... either they decided to be conservative or they use less durable parts ... anyhow .. as said above .. it is an understandable decision

My point above ... like here .. why deform the true for try to make a point?

The car does not 0-100 in 9.9 as said before .. it does in 11sec
The car has no issue due to missing gears ... it is a "conservative" decision that has been made ... in Japan to be green means to be grandpa style ... in Tesla you can be green and "young" on the same time ... a massive acceleration is what put a smile in every driver .. and there is still no law that limit acceleration ... only speed is limited by rules (also drive 250km/h in german motor way is what bring a smile in every driver)

PS: Interesting point about about city car .. at the end I'm using he PHEV as city car .. what does good is to make 35km a day without burning fuel and allow cheap commute ... as soon as it goes further consumption go crazy high .. and in the motor way, it consume much more then any other normal car .. more then my 3L twin turbo 400HP BMW for example :shock:

PPS: Not only cheap commute .. but it does in perfect comfort and relax (to drive the PHEV in granda style it is very stress free even in the bad city traffic)

YES .. PHEV is the perfect city car ... better then a Fiat Panda (assuming you have your own big parking spot in the city)