Retrofit of 1500W AC inverter possible?

[Phevy]

What the Outlander is good in?

For me in 2018 it was the only car that could do short trips fully electric. Do long trips without charging stops, had all wheel drive for Canadian climate and was able to pull my camper!
Today we have more choices and a Rav4 Prime could be an option, if only you could buy one! There is a huge waiting list in Canada.
So would I buy one again today? I'm not sure. I use fuelly.com to compare real world energy efficiency. And it seems that my premium in purchase price is still not recovered after 6 years, compared to an ISE Outlander. So, what has made it worth it for me, is that the electric drive is comfortable and quiet. I had electricity at a campsite that was non-electric. So far it has been extremely reliable. And charging at home means, I always have 25 km of driving range on cheap overnight electricity.

As for backup power. V2H is too expensive for the average home owner. I also did not opt for the build in converter at the time, because 1500 W would not be enough for the house. (So Woon, in my mind you did not miss out there.)

For a home backup generator I would consider LPG, as that fuel is better to store than petrol/gas. I remember the days of peak-oil and that we would be running out. We have these days more oil and gas, than we can burn, so I'm not too worried about the supply. I'm curious what you had back first gas or electricity in case of a major black-out/disaster?

Just my 2c.

 

[Woon Chung]

What the Outlander is good in?

For me in 2018 it was the only car that could do short trips fully electric. Do long trips without charging stops, had all wheel drive for Canadian climate and was able to pull my camper!
Today we have more choices and a Rav4 Prime could be an option, if only you could buy one! There is a huge waiting list in Canada.
So would I buy one again today? I'm not sure. I use fuelly.com to compare real world energy efficiency. And it seems that my premium in purchase price is still not recovered after 6 years, compared to an ISE Outlander. So, what has made it worth it for me, is that the electric drive is comfortable and quiet. I had electricity at a campsite that was non-electric. So far it has been extremely reliable. And charging at home means, I always have 25 km of driving range on cheap overnight electricity.

As for backup power. V2H is too expensive for the average home owner. I also did not opt for the build in converter at the time, because 1500 W would not be enough for the house. (So Woon, in my mind you did not miss out there.)

For a home backup generator I would consider LPG, as that fuel is better to store than petrol/gas. I remember the days of peak-oil and that we would be running out. We have these days more oil and gas, than we can burn, so I'm not too worried about the supply. I'm curious what you had back first gas or electricity in case of a major black-out/disaster?

Just my 2c.

I think you have similar dilemma as almost car buyer has. Less than a decade ago, it was easy to choose a car because our needs for the car is mean transportation. So, less expensive, more gas mileage, more essay to repair, less maintenance cost, more luxury, ETC. Now a days, including all those choices, we have more complicated options of ICE only, Hybrid, Plug-In Hybrid, Pure EV. In addition to that, how to charge is added condition.

Before EV, most of the people has enough knowledge to figure out which is good and which is bad about the car selection. But in these days, we know nothing about the cars how to figure out them.

After I experienced the disaster of blackout, I bought Petrol Generator for emergency. Still it matters the capacity of Generator. Also petrol supply, while town has transportation issue, became another issue. So I was thinking about LPG Generator but too expensive, too. I was in the long way of maze of Power Backup but still cannot get out of it, not because of equipment but because of money.

When we think of Power Back Up because of Grid Electric failure, it usually a few hours to a few days maximum. If it last longer than a few days, it is serious National disaster. We have no way to escape from it successfully with personal effort. I started from this point of view.

Only for a power back up for camping and short period of power out at home, any kind of car have mobile power capability.
ICE - Connect inverter to the 12v battery and run the engine all the time. - Possible but ...... low wattage and emission
Hybrid - connect inverter to the 12v battery in ready mode. ICE will turn on and off automatically. - Possible. Lots of Prius Hybrid owner tried for camping. But they think it is not enough for house.
PHEV - Connect inverter to 12V battery and more capacity than Hybrid alone. - Some successfully up to 2500W
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV GT model in US - 120v AC 1500w outlet installed. It is great but option cost $6k
EV - Connect inverter to 12v battery and battery can supply enough power to house use for survive. Up to 6000w. For several days to week or more.
New EV - connect bidirectional J1772 adapter ($99) and draw ac power directly from Traction Battery. Ioniq 5, 6, Kia EV6 EV9 Niro EV Also F150 EV(I do not have detail info).

When we think about Electric motor, the more important factor is the Battey. And some of Chinese battery had serious flaw of safety. Even Benz have battery failure on the street caused fire, because they use some cheap Chinese Battery. Unfortunately, EV car manufacturer do not provide the battery information. They keep it secretly because they are ready to avoid responsibility for installing cheap battery. It added up the headache when selecting EV cars. Korean battery is the best for the time being. Next is CATL But China has hundreds of under quality battery manufacturer. Benz used 10th grade Chinese manufacturer's battery and had fire during parking... Tesla battery is good too. But when it comes to recycling, it is not useable.

I am in the middle of searching EV and Battery market. When more information obtained, I will let you know.

I owned Outlander PHEV for a month only. Thus, I have to use this car at least 5 years, if there is no serious failure.

If your current car has more life, I will recommend you not to hurry to replace it. Since the EV world is changing so quick, who knows when the time comes that Rav4 is beaten by other model. It could be before when the delivery of Rev4 prime in your driveway.

Buying another Outlander PHEV means to me that you are staying at the time of 2015. Nothing is advanced except a little bit bigger battery. Korean EV cars run 3.5 miles per 1Kwh. while outlander runs 2.2 mile per 1 Kwh. The dash board and infotainment display is way beyond modern tech. All options are quite different. Korean battery holds up to 50% more power in same volume of the battery then 3 years ago. New battery cells come out soon. Then all current data sheet will be past history.

Toyota's policy failed. They do have only one EV car, bZ4X, not compatible in the market since they believe Hybrid is the best solution. It is old fashion. Because of this policy, Toyota does not have battery factory. This means they have to pay expensive battery cost to China.

I will keep looking for EV industry because my next car will be an EV. It is fun to me searching, since I have 4 computer monitors.

 

[phevnz21]

I think you have similar dilemma as almost car buyer has. Less than a decade ago, it was easy to choose a car because our needs for the car is mean transportation. So, less expensive, more gas mileage, more essay to repair, less maintenance cost, more luxury, ETC. Now a days, including all those choices, we have more complicated options of ICE only, Hybrid, Plug-In Hybrid, Pure EV. In addition to that, how to charge is added condition.

Before EV, most of the people has enough knowledge to figure out which is good and which is bad about the car selection. But in these days, we know nothing about the cars how to figure out them.

After I experienced the disaster of blackout, I bought Petrol Generator for emergency. Still it matters the capacity of Generator. Also petrol supply, while town has transportation issue, became another issue. So I was thinking about LPG Generator but too expensive, too. I was in the long way of maze of Power Backup but still cannot get out of it, not because of equipment but because of money.

When we think of Power Back Up because of Grid Electric failure, it usually a few hours to a few days maximum. If it last longer than a few days, it is serious National disaster. We have no way to escape from it successfully with personal effort. I started from this point of view.

Only for a power back up for camping and short period of power out at home, any kind of car have mobile power capability.
ICE - Connect inverter to the 12v battery and run the engine all the time. - Possible but ...... low wattage and emission
Hybrid - connect inverter to the 12v battery in ready mode. ICE will turn on and off automatically. - Possible. Lots of Prius Hybrid owner tried for camping. But they think it is not enough for house.
PHEV - Connect inverter to 12V battery and more capacity than Hybrid alone. - Some successfully up to 2500W
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV GT model in US - 120v AC 1500w outlet installed. It is great but option cost $6k
EV - Connect inverter to 12v battery and battery can supply enough power to house use for survive. Up to 6000w. For several days to week or more.
New EV - connect bidirectional J1772 adapter ($99) and draw ac power directly from Traction Battery. Ioniq 5, 6, Kia EV6 EV9 Niro EV Also F150 EV(I do not have detail info).

When we think about Electric motor, the more important factor is the Battey. And some of Chinese battery had serious flaw of safety. Even Benz have battery failure on the street caused fire, because they use some cheap Chinese Battery. Unfortunately, EV car manufacturer do not provide the battery information. They keep it secretly because they are ready to avoid responsibility for installing cheap battery. It added up the headache when selecting EV cars. Korean battery is the best for the time being. Next is CATL But China has hundreds of under quality battery manufacturer. Benz used 10th grade Chinese manufacturer's battery and had fire during parking... Tesla battery is good too. But when it comes to recycling, it is not useable.

I am in the middle of searching EV and Battery market. When more information obtained, I will let you know.

I owned Outlander PHEV for a month only. Thus, I have to use this car at least 5 years, if there is no serious failure.

If your current car has more life, I will recommend you not to hurry to replace it. Since the EV world is changing so quick, who knows when the time comes that Rav4 is beaten by other model. It could be before when the delivery of Rev4 prime in your driveway.

Buying another Outlander PHEV means to me that you are staying at the time of 2015. Nothing is advanced except a little bit bigger battery. Korean EV cars run 3.5 miles per 1Kwh. while outlander runs 2.2 mile per 1 Kwh. The dash board and infotainment display is way beyond modern tech. All options are quite different. Korean battery holds up to 50% more power in same volume of the battery then 3 years ago. New battery cells come out soon. Then all current data sheet will be past history.

Toyota's policy failed. They do have only one EV car, bZ4X, not compatible in the market since they believe Hybrid is the best solution. It is old fashion. Because of this policy, Toyota does not have battery factory. This means they have to pay expensive battery cost to China.

I will keep looking for EV industry because my next car will be an EV. It is fun to me searching, since I have 4 computer monitors.

Thank you for that very informative survey of the EV and battery scene. I will look forward to your future reports and conclusions.

 

[littlescrote]

I think you have similar dilemma as almost car buyer has. Less than a decade ago, it was easy to choose a car because our needs for the car is mean transportation. So, less expensive, more gas mileage, more essay to repair, less maintenance cost, more luxury, ETC. Now a days, including all those choices, we have more complicated options of ICE only, Hybrid, Plug-In Hybrid, Pure EV. In addition to that, how to charge is added condition.

Before EV, most of the people has enough knowledge to figure out which is good and which is bad about the car selection. But in these days, we know nothing about the cars how to figure out them.

After I experienced the disaster of blackout, I bought Petrol Generator for emergency. Still it matters the capacity of Generator. Also petrol supply, while town has transportation issue, became another issue. So I was thinking about LPG Generator but too expensive, too. I was in the long way of maze of Power Backup but still cannot get out of it, not because of equipment but because of money.

When we think of Power Back Up because of Grid Electric failure, it usually a few hours to a few days maximum. If it last longer than a few days, it is serious National disaster. We have no way to escape from it successfully with personal effort. I started from this point of view.

Only for a power back up for camping and short period of power out at home, any kind of car have mobile power capability.
ICE - Connect inverter to the 12v battery and run the engine all the time. - Possible but ...... low wattage and emission
Hybrid - connect inverter to the 12v battery in ready mode. ICE will turn on and off automatically. - Possible. Lots of Prius Hybrid owner tried for camping. But they think it is not enough for house.
PHEV - Connect inverter to 12V battery and more capacity than Hybrid alone. - Some successfully up to 2500W
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV GT model in US - 120v AC 1500w outlet installed. It is great but option cost $6k
EV - Connect inverter to 12v battery and battery can supply enough power to house use for survive. Up to 6000w. For several days to week or more.
New EV - connect bidirectional J1772 adapter ($99) and draw ac power directly from Traction Battery. Ioniq 5, 6, Kia EV6 EV9 Niro EV Also F150 EV(I do not have detail info).

When we think about Electric motor, the more important factor is the Battey. And some of Chinese battery had serious flaw of safety. Even Benz have battery failure on the street caused fire, because they use some cheap Chinese Battery. Unfortunately, EV car manufacturer do not provide the battery information. They keep it secretly because they are ready to avoid responsibility for installing cheap battery. It added up the headache when selecting EV cars. Korean battery is the best for the time being. Next is CATL But China has hundreds of under quality battery manufacturer. Benz used 10th grade Chinese manufacturer's battery and had fire during parking... Tesla battery is good too. But when it comes to recycling, it is not useable.

I am in the middle of searching EV and Battery market. When more information obtained, I will let you know.

I owned Outlander PHEV for a month only. Thus, I have to use this car at least 5 years, if there is no serious failure.

If your current car has more life, I will recommend you not to hurry to replace it. Since the EV world is changing so quick, who knows when the time comes that Rav4 is beaten by other model. It could be before when the delivery of Rev4 prime in your driveway.

Buying another Outlander PHEV means to me that you are staying at the time of 2015. Nothing is advanced except a little bit bigger battery. Korean EV cars run 3.5 miles per 1Kwh. while outlander runs 2.2 mile per 1 Kwh. The dash board and infotainment display is way beyond modern tech. All options are quite different. Korean battery holds up to 50% more power in same volume of the battery then 3 years ago. New battery cells come out soon. Then all current data sheet will be past history.

Toyota's policy failed. They do have only one EV car, bZ4X, not compatible in the market since they believe Hybrid is the best solution. It is old fashion. Because of this policy, Toyota does not have battery factory. This means they have to pay expensive battery cost to China.

I will keep looking for EV industry because my next car will be an EV. It is fun to me searching, since I have 4 computer monitors.

There would be no difference in power capability of an inverter that you connect to a 12V system, whether 'self charging' or Plug In hybrid. It depends on the specification of the DC/DC converter only.

But you'd be stupid to connect a high power inverter to the 12V side of a PHEV when you have a 500V DC battery available that makes high power easy (lower current, thinner cables).

 

[Woon Chung]

There would be no difference in power capability of an inverter that you connect to a 12V system, whether 'self charging' or Plug In hybrid. It depends on the specification of the DC/DC converter only.

But you'd be stupid to connect a high power inverter to the 12V side of a PHEV when you have a 500V DC battery available that makes high power easy (lower current, thinner cables).

I understand you added sub index on my main index.

If I go to sub index, inverter and its accessories such as cable capacity, braker capacity, connector capacity should be calculated relatively.

Also, I am suspicious about maximum output from the DC-DC converter to Inverter. Disregarding DC-DC converter's maximum output capacity to 12v DC, there should be a limit to a certain circuit by setting up fuse inside converter. If I am a designer of DC-DC converter, I would not connect all 12v system to DC-DC converter's 12v output port at once. That is not safe at all. So, there must be a group of 12v system and each group has maximum current to flow. It is safe to control than all 12v devices connected to one post without intermittent braker. Just like Home electricity Distribution Panel. There is main braker on the top with maximum amperage and tens of smaller, and different capacity brakers to each rooms or each appliances.

My 2022 battery is 13.8kwh, 300v DC. DC-DC converter has 12v DC output, There is a 12 V jumper cable terminal as in the illustration, marked as A.

DC-DC converter has many 12 V output leads connected to fuse terminals, but A terminal is specially open to the use of outside of the car. It looks to handle high Amperage, but not mentioned about how much Amperage can be used for this terminal. (If somebody knows max output from this terminal, please let me know) However, there are 2 hidden stories to guess. One is that Mitsubishi designed external 3000W DC-AC inverter by themselves to use 100V AC for emergency power source. It is connected to CHAdeMO plug. And there are another CHAdeMO cable for Home Power Supply system. The Australian Guys showed in their You Tube. This is also 3000w. Because the internal DC-AC inverter has capacity of 3000w, DC-DC converter's internal circuit must be design for providing enough Amperage to jump terminal under same background.

When they provide 120V AC outlet inside car, they limited to 1500W, considering maximum use of Battery system, but not limited inside circuit board. So when we connected 2500w to 12V battery terminal, it will be in the range of 3000w maximum - which Mitsubishi engineer hoped to feel safe. If it goes more than 3000W, I have no clue what will happen inside circuit. in the DC-DC controller, there must be a braker. I don't know what happens when the braker activated when it sensed high Amperage in circuit. It may limit to safe Amperage and let connected device controls within the limited Amperage, or, shut down temporarily and reset by itself after a certain period of curing time, or, totally close the circuit forever for no further use, before circuit break down or failure. All depends on the Mitsubishi Engineers.

I had more chances to see You Tube regarding DC-AC pure sine inverter on Prius than Outlander. But they used to stay under 1500W. One of Outlander PHEV successfully connected 2500w and tested as total use of 2100w appliances.

I am not stupid not to know the meaning of V=IR, P=IV, AWG. Also I know EV DC battery is perfectly controlled by BMS and DC-DC controls 12v system in the car. I do not know the exact data sheet how they are working but not stupid to touch the bold hand onto the 12v output terminal.