Pre purchase advice.

[maby]

PHEV EV range is extremely dependent on driving style. If you are prepared to adapt to the car and drive for economy, you can achieve the advertised 30-odd miles in the summer - just about! If you drive it like any other car - taking advantage of the acceleration available and making use of heating or aircon as appropriate - then the range you achieve is likely to be significantly less. I reckon I'm doing well to get 24 miles in the summer and 16 miles if the temperature gets close to zero. I did achieve 30 miles when it was new - by driving it gently in the summer with the aircon off, but I could not keep that driving style up for long. YMMV.

I think there is not space for different "driving" style .. when the PHEV is in "EV mode"

The foot on the gas should be very light, else the ICE will kick in.

Range is only a matter of the driven speed (and this is dictated by the street .. drive 60km/h on motorway is not even allowed)

In the city, and in slow street ... with speed never over 70km/h ... then this car can achieve up to 50km EV range (in the good weather and no AC or heating used) ... on motorway at 120km/h .. EV mode will last no more then 20km ... anyhow.... this is common for every EV car ... but due to the huge side of the car, even with sort of optimized aerodynamic ... cutting the air with the car at relative high speed cost a lot of energy "waste"

Hmmm, perhaps I take a rather less purist view of "EV range" - I'm perfectly happy for the petrol engine to cut in for short periods in order to provide additional acceleration, or assist hill climbs. As far as I'm concerned, I've run out of EV range when the battery gauge shows empty - effectively one block - and the engine becomes the only source of motive power (accepting that it will still drop to EV for short distances to consume charge that has been gained from the engine).

 

[jaapv]

...
- I bought a vehicle loaded with toys and I like to be comfortable :mrgreen:
...:

Same here - my first car had no heating or aircon, but that was more than forty years ago and it cost £25...

Brings back memories - my first car ( an ancient Citroen 11 Légère) had an aftermrket heating unit a huge thing in the passenger footwell. I needed to switch it on when climbing hills to help with engine cooling. One sweltering day on the Gotthard Pass - with a sauna-like atmosphere in the car despite all windows and windscreen open- it caught fire...

 

[anko]

I think there is not space for different "driving" style .. when the PHEV is in "EV mode"

I think there is still a big difference between 'speeding' from traffic light to traffic light versus slowly speeding up and anticipating on what is coming next. Of course, some of the kinetic energy in the car is converted into battery charge when slowing down at the next traffic light, but there are losses associated with this process. So, the more energy you try to regen back into the battery, the more energy you loose. Also, there are limitations to this process: the battery will not accept an unlimited regen current (especially at higher SOC), so in order to slow down quickly, at some point you will have to use the friction brakes. Which means more energy lost.

 

[elm70]

I think there is not space for different "driving" style .. when the PHEV is in "EV mode"

I think there is still a big difference between 'speeding' from traffic light to traffic light versus slowly speeding up and anticipating on what is coming next. Of course, some of the kinetic energy in the car is converted into battery charge when slowing down at the next traffic light, but there are losses associated with this process. So, the more energy you try to regen back into the battery, the more energy you loose. Also, there are limitations to this process: the battery will not accept an unlimited regen current (especially at higher SOC), so in order to slow down quickly, at some point you will have to use the friction brakes. Which means more energy lost.

With 60kw .. that in reality are no more then 50kw usable .. and in final practice is even less, since limited torque at low speed .. the difference between realistic max acceleration, and slow acceleration .. from a stranding still .. is very very limited ... also if the aim is to reach 50kmh .... doing it faster or slower has relative little difference in energy wasted in the process.

While driving at 50kmh vs 80kmh .. it has a huge impact on air resistance and consumption.

What I can agree, it is that in urban traffic, be able to maximize the regen brake, can play a role .. and for this ... it is first off all about using B5 and secondary ... is about to allow the car to slow down without using the braking pads (exception for fully stop the car .. regen brake will only slow down to ~5kmh) .. still B5 is relative strong .. so there is not much difference to brake hard (which is still not a pleasure drive, nor a time saver in urban streets)

At the end ... already keeping EV mode and avoid ICE, does impact a lot in the driving style ... little is left for be even further "ECO"
For me .. what make big difference is the street ... urban with max 50kmh is where range is maximized ... motorway at 120kmh will empty the battery in no time and few km too.

 

[anko]

.. so there is not much difference to brake hard (which is still not a pleasure drive, nor a time saver in urban streets)

When you have to brake hard, it means you have pushed the throttle longer then necessary .... Even if propelling and regening would be 100% efficient (which they are not), you still are still dragging more power out of and back into the battery than needed, in order to get to the same traffic light at the same time.

Also, do you feel when the friction brakes are applied? For sure, I don't. But I have tools that tell me pressure in the brake circuit and from that I can derive when they are applied. And believe me, I did have to adopt my driving style to prevent them from being applied. Even in B5 and even at < 50 km/h roads.

Finally, on a road with a 80 km/h speed limit, you can easily drive 75 or 85. From 75 to 85, there is an increase of speed by 13%, so an increase of 28% when it comes to energy needed to overcome air resistance.

 

[elm70]

When you have to brake hard, it means you have pushed the throttle longer then necessary .... Even if propelling and regening would be 100% efficient (which they are not), you still are still dragging more power out of and back into the battery than needed, in order to get to the same traffic light at the same time.

Also, do you feel when the friction brakes are applied? For sure, I don't. But I have tools that tell me pressure in the brake circuit and from that I can derive when they are applied. And believe me, I did have to adopt my driving style to prevent them from being applied. Even in B5 and even at < 50 km/h roads.

Finally, on a road with a 80 km/h speed limit, you can easily drive 75 or 85. From 75 to 85, there is an increase of speed by 13%, so an increase of 28% when it comes to energy needed to overcome air resistance.

You may things too complicated

B5 is already the max regen possible (possibly is just a bit shy from max) ... so ... if I need to press on brake pedal, it means I need friction brake and I make waste .. so my only adapting .. is trying to slow down always with B5 without touching the brake (except for a full stop)

About driving 75 vs 85 when limit is 80 ... why not even drive 60 .. but this is not a driving style .. is just to be "slow"

Actually .. time is money .. and I'm always driving on the edge of the speed limit (also I prefer to spend time outside the car then not driving, especially since this PHEV is not funny at all to be driven ... so go from A to B, means do it in the shortest time possible ... unless .. I'm in vacation into a panoramic street but this is a different "case", and most probably I would be driving my cabrio instead)

So .. adapting for me means only:
Don't press too much on gas .. else ICE will kick in (start the ICE is a waste if there is more then enough battery for reach destination)
Use B5 instead of brake pedal as much as possible
If I have energy on the lithium battery, drive up to 120kmh in EV in the motorway (only in this case I use 20kmh less then limit .. but it is only for few km, since battery end very fast at 120kmh)

I don't think accelerate even slower does bring much advantage (if any), except be slow and "stress" the people behind

Anyhow ... avoid to start ICE imply quite some difference on driving style ... personally ... I was used to floor my gas pedal (without kick down normally) for reach the speed limit in the shortest time ... now it feel a bit weird to be carefully not exceeding the 60kw mark on the dash :?

 

[jaapv]

Ah-yes, it sometimes takes quite a bit of habituation to find out that an accelerator is not an on/off switch.
Driving and braking in a more fluid manner will benefit fuel economy in a petrol- or diesel-powered car as well.
Not to mention passenger comfort.

 

[Wobblydeb]

Not wanting to upset the forum members, but with your usage pattern is there a reason you're not looking at pure electric vehicles? They'd be cheaper to buy second hand and every one could do the distances you describe.

Understood if you need the space / 4WD that the Outlander offers - there's nothing to match it for the money

 

[geoffshep69]

Not wanting to upset the forum members, but with your usage pattern is there a reason you're not looking at pure electric vehicles? They'd be cheaper to buy second hand and every one could do the distances you describe.

Understood if you need the space / 4WD that the Outlander offers - there's nothing to match it for the money

Whilst a pure EV would work for my daily commute, it would be no use for longer journeys that I make from time to time.

At the moment, I see pure EV cars as being suitable 'second' cars for a family, and potentially I could see my wife using one given that she never strays too far from home in her own car. However, I think that pure EV vehicles are nowhere near being ready to replace a main family car until such time as battery technology improves, both in terms of capacity and recharging time.

 

[Muddywheels]

Me too - I only run 1 vehicle and weekdays it's EV and weekends/holidays petrol is essential so PHEV gives me best of both worlds

 

[Wobblydeb]

Whilst a pure EV would work for my daily commute, it would be no use for longer journeys that I make from time to time.

At the moment, I see pure EV cars as being suitable 'second' cars for a family, and potentially I could see my wife using one given that she never strays too far from home in her own car. However, I think that pure EV vehicles are nowhere near being ready to replace a main family car until such time as battery technology improves, both in terms of capacity and recharging time.

I was talking to the original poster, who on top of their 46 miles per day had said......

I will only use it for local trips at the weekend so no real concerns that way.

I love my Outlander and it fits our family, but perhaps a different EV/PHEV might suit them for less money?

 

[geoffshep69]

Fair enough, I hadnt realised your post was directed at one person only, I thought it was a general question to all the contributors to the thread.

 

[elm70]

Not wanting to upset the forum members, but with your usage pattern is there a reason you're not looking at pure electric vehicles? They'd be cheaper to buy second hand and every one could do the distances you describe.

Understood if you need the space / 4WD that the Outlander offers - there's nothing to match it for the money

Actually I was considering a pure EV as 2nd car, which would have been my 4th

Ideally a Fiat 500e but is hard to find here
Else a Twizy with 'windows' and no battery leasing, also very hard

At the end I find this PHEV and I got a very good deal for replace my old cheap SUV

 

[anko]

You may things too complicated

Do I? Or do you perhaps have no clue what you are talking about? :?

B5 is already the max regen possible (possibly is just a bit shy from max) ... so ... so my only adapting .. is trying to slow down always with B5 without touching the brake (except for a full stop)

For a moment, let us assume you are right and B5 indeed provides (close to) max regen power even without braking. That would only prove my point, as many of us would not be have been able to get around town without touching the brake pedal if we hadn't adopted our driving style. Apparently including yourself.

So, even though you claim that adopting your driving style does not make sense at low speed, you have actually adopted your driving style yourself. So, whats with the "it makes no sense ..." :roll:

But at the same time, your statement is wrong: B5 does not provide (close to) max regen power without you hitting the brake pedal. As you could have read on this same forum, B5 is programmed to aim for a 1 m/s2 deceleration. Without touching the brake pedal, that is. In most cases this leaves plenty of room for increasing the deceleration (and with that the amount of regen power) by touching the brake pedal, well before the friction brakes are applied. Keep in mind: at very high speeds to achieve 1 m/s2 deceleration may require close to max regen braking power, but we were talking about adopting driving style in slow speed areas. And at slow speeds it requires far less stopping power to achieve 1 m/s2 declaration.

About driving 75 vs 85 when limit is 80 ... why not even drive 60 .. but this is not a driving style .. is just to be "slow"

With all due respect, this is typical elm70 reasoning. You make a wild claim and when you cannot make it stick, you just change definitions to suit your needs, so you can (believe to) be right again :lol:

Actually .. time is money .. and I'm always driving on the edge of the speed limit (also I prefer to spend time outside the car then not driving, especially since this PHEV is not funny at all to be driven ... so go from A to B, means do it in the shortest time possible ... unless .. I'm in vacation into a panoramic street but this is a different "case", and most probably I would be driving my cabrio instead)

Even more efficient than driving around in B5 without touching the brakes would be driving around in B0 without touching the brakes. But clearly your priorities are with getting somewhere as fast as possible and not as economical as possible. So, perhaps you should not comment on this matter, as you are likely to be biased and I cannot imagine you have ever tried it yourself.