Pre-Heating while plugged in during extreme cold (2023 PHEV)

[mmbart]

I recently bought a 2023 Outlander PHEV SEL. I live in a very cold climate (Saskatchewan, Canada) earlier in the month, nights would be below -20C (and -40C mid-winter is typical, but I did not have the PHEV at that time). I’ve found when the vehicle is plugged in it does not adequately heat the cabin when turning on climate via the app. I have the temp set to HI and have tried running the heat for up to an hour and the cabin is still cold and it feels like cool air is blowing through the vents (I get notified when it auto shuts off and will restart the climate whenever that happens). Has anyone else experienced this? Any tips on how to get proper pre-heat while plugged in at -20C or lower? The vehicle warms up fine when the ICE is running. At temps around -10C or above the cabin heats up as expected when plugged I or driving in EV mode.
I have a few guesses/ideas now that I am more familiar with the vehicle, but the weather is much warmer now so I will not be able to test until next winter:
1) I’m plugged into a standard 120V outlet, is it possible there is not enough power to charge the battery and heat the cabin? I have not noticed if it will heat normally with a fully charged battery.
2) If I dial down the heat setting to 15C rather than “HI” maybe the power draw will be low enough heat the cabin (again, I have not tried this at low temps).
3) At these temps all available power from the 120V source is being used to obtain/maintain optimal battery operating temp, thus no additional power for cabin heating (possibly similar solution as line 2).
4) Test my theories above at a level 2 charger in during cold weather.
If anyone has other ideas or conclusions? I’d love to hear them, I’ll follow up next winter with what I find out.

 

[AndyInOz]

Hi there,

I note that many users have had issues with the heater not working at all.

So... the first thing for you to check is if the heater works.

On my model, the heater will discharge the drive battery to run the heating if the car is not plugged in.

That suggests that the available power from your external charger should not be an issue.

Unfortunately, I have no way of checking if yours is the same.

However, if your battery is too cold to provide any power, that could account for an electric heater not being able to run.

Please note that my model, I have a separate electric heater which allows/supports running the heating on timer.

If you establish that your heater is working, that will help you check where things are going wrong.

Similarly, if heating via timer starts working as weather warms up, that could point the finger at cold battery temperatures being the culprit.

BTW. I've known of people from cold climates who had a separate heating pad (a thing they park over in the garage) to keep their diesel vehicles operative in winter, it's possible that Outlander PHEVs may need similar treatment.

 

[Lon12]

I recently bought a 2023 Outlander PHEV SEL. I live in a very cold climate (Saskatchewan, Canada) earlier in the month, nights would be below -20C (and -40C mid-winter is typical, but I did not have the PHEV at that time). I’ve found when the vehicle is plugged in it does not adequately heat the cabin when turning on climate via the app. I have the temp set to HI and have tried running the heat for up to an hour and the cabin is still cold and it feels like cool air is blowing through the vents (I get notified when it auto shuts off and will restart the climate whenever that happens). Has anyone else experienced this? Any tips on how to get proper pre-heat while plugged in at -20C or lower? The vehicle warms up fine when the ICE is running. At temps around -10C or above the cabin heats up as expected when plugged I or driving in EV mode.
I have a few guesses/ideas now that I am more familiar with the vehicle, but the weather is much warmer now so I will not be able to test until next winter:
1) I’m plugged into a standard 120V outlet, is it possible there is not enough power to charge the battery and heat the cabin? I have not noticed if it will heat normally with a fully charged battery.
2) If I dial down the heat setting to 15C rather than “HI” maybe the power draw will be low enough heat the cabin (again, I have not tried this at low temps).
3) At these temps all available power from the 120V source is being used to obtain/maintain optimal battery operating temp, thus no additional power for cabin heating (possibly similar solution as line 2).
4) Test my theories above at a level 2 charger in during cold weather.
If anyone has other ideas or conclusions? I’d love to hear them, I’ll follow up next winter with what I find out.

The heat pump appears to not be able to operate below around -15ºC from my experience. Heat pump heating is the only option with the App. You cannot start the ICE with the App. So unless Mitsubishi can one day change that temperature cut off we can't preheat the car just when we need it the most!
I've tested this many times this past winter. Pulling the car out of my non heated garage, going from 0ºC to -16ºC, the heat pump would only run for around three or four minutes. It is very loud so easy to listen to it slow down and eventually stop. If they can't change this behaviour then they should at least notify us via the App or car display that it can no longer heat.

 

[kpetrov]

I can confirm what have been said on top, from what I have read and hear the new heating system with a heat-pump on that new 2023 model is a lemon for cold weather.

Under -15 forget abut any heat beside the engine one that can't be remotely started with the app though.
No matter in how powerful source you have plugged it in it wont preheat, period. Design limitations.

 

[nrayanov]

The heat pump doesn't work under -15 C. You will have to start the ICE to heat from colder temperatures.

 

[DougF]

Please note that my model, I have a separate electric heater which allows/supports running the heating on timer.

Did your Outlander come with an electric heater? If so, which model is it, and which year?

 

[AndyInOz]

Yes, it was one of the features of the top level vehicle.

Mine is a 2014, Aspire.

 

[Grandad]

I recently bought a 2023 Outlander PHEV SEL. I live in a very cold climate (Saskatchewan, Canada) earlier in the month, nights would be below -20C (and -40C mid-winter is typical, but I did not have the PHEV at that time). I’ve found when the vehicle is plugged in it does not adequately heat the cabin when turning on climate via the app. I have the temp set to HI and have tried running the heat for up to an hour and the cabin is still cold and it feels like cool air is blowing through the vents (I get notified when it auto shuts off and will restart the climate whenever that happens). Has anyone else experienced this? Any tips on how to get proper pre-heat while plugged in at -20C or lower? The vehicle warms up fine when the ICE is running. At temps around -10C or above the cabin heats up as expected when plugged I or driving in EV mode.
I have a few guesses/ideas now that I am more familiar with the vehicle, but the weather is much warmer now so I will not be able to test until next winter:
1) I’m plugged into a standard 120V outlet, is it possible there is not enough power to charge the battery and heat the cabin? I have not noticed if it will heat normally with a fully charged battery.
2) If I dial down the heat setting to 15C rather than “HI” maybe the power draw will be low enough heat the cabin (again, I have not tried this at low temps).
3) At these temps all available power from the 120V source is being used to obtain/maintain optimal battery operating temp, thus no additional power for cabin heating (possibly similar solution as line 2).
4) Test my theories above at a level 2 charger in during cold weather.
If anyone has other ideas or conclusions? I’d love to hear them, I’ll follow up next winter with what I find out.

Your ideas seem logical. Unfortunately:
1) the cabin heat, without the ICE engaged (the ICE doesn't start on remote) relies on a heat exchanger...which does not generate heat below~ -15C - competition with battery charging is not the issue
2) see 1 above
3) there is no battery heater in the '23 or '24 models (although the promotional material said it was standard in '23) so there is no competition there - see also 1 above
4) level 1, 2 or 3 makes no difference to the heat exchanger - owners are just out of luck unless they physically (not remotely) start the ICE...and when the battery temperature gets below ~ -25C that may well work either since the system will lock out "to protect the battery"

These machines are not what we thought we were buying when we were taken in by Mitsu's slogans about reliability and being built for Canadian winters. Keep you eyes on the class action lawsuits though...there may be hope yet.

 

[PHEV07]

Did your Outlander come with an electric heater? If so, which model is it, and which year?

Models from 2014 to 2022(old body style) came with a Battery heater.

When they introduced the 2023 with Heat Pump, no battery Heater was included. Same goes for the 2024.

Anyone have an update on the Class Action Lawsuit against Mitsubishi Motors for not equipting the 2023 and 2024 with a Battery Heater or remote ICE starting capability?

 

[Mangala Ranasinghe01]

Did your Outlander come with an electric heater? If so, which model is it, and which year?

2018 PHEV also has an electric heater to preheat the EV battery to keep it run even in a very cold winter. New models don't have this option.

 

[Grandad]

Models from 2014 to 2022(old body style) came with a Battery heater.

When they introduced the 2023 with Heat Pump, no battery Heater was included. Same goes for the 2024.

Anyone have an update on the Class Action Lawsuit against Mitsubishi Motors for not equipting the 2023 and 2024 with a Battery Heater or remote ICE starting capability?

No update but the files are still active in Canada and the US.

An important point to keep alive in the discussion of the deletion of the battery heater in the '23 model is that Mitsu continued to include information in its promotional material and technical specs to the effect that the equipment was "Standard" "for operation in cold weather..." They have yet to actively notify buyers to whom the vehicle was misrepresented that this was the case.

 

[Grandad]

The heat pump appears to not be able to operate below around -15ºC from my experience. Heat pump heating is the only option with the App. You cannot start the ICE with the App. So unless Mitsubishi can one day change that temperature cut off we can't preheat the car just when we need it the most!
I've tested this many times this past winter. Pulling the car out of my non heated garage, going from 0ºC to -16ºC, the heat pump would only run for around three or four minutes. It is very loud so easy to listen to it slow down and eventually stop. If they can't change this behaviour then they should at least notify us via the App or car display that it can no longer heat.

Right-if you want to pre-warm the vehicle below -16C you have to physically start the engine (keeping in mind that the vehicle is set to lock out altogether at ~ -25C (battery temp-and the '23/'24 outlander PHEV is designed without a battery heater).

 

[PHEV07]

Right-if you want to pre-warm the vehicle below -16C you have to physically start the engine (keeping in mind that the vehicle is set to lock out altogether at ~ -25C (battery temp-and the '23/'24 outlander PHEV is designed without a battery heater).

This really sucks. Mitsubishi sure blew it, on removing the Battery Heaters that were being used pre 2023 Vehicles.

Wonder on how the Lawsuit is progressing.

 

[jxc64]

2018 PHEV also has an electric heater to preheat the EV battery to keep it run even in a very cold winter. New models don't have this option.

I have a 2018 PHEV. I usually have short trips. When the temperature drops into the 40s (sometimes 50s), it uses only ICE for most or all of my trips. And, it seems to only get about 18 mpg. What do you mean about preheating? (I do not have a remote for it). Would this get my entire trip on the battery. (I know nothing about cars!) I don't really care about the cabin being warm as we don't regularly get below 0 (F or C) temperatures. Thank you!

 

[AndyInOz]

Pre-heating is typically done by setting up a timer, either via MMCS in the car, or by using the app on an external device.

These things are not available for every model.

Pre-heating is a bit of a mixed blessing.

You can use some power to warm up the car before you use it, but that power comes out of the traction battery. If you do this while charging the car, some of that power will be provided by your charging connection, but not all of it.

The temperature rarely gets below 10°C where I live, so I've never used it.

The previous owner had pre-heating timers set to run twice per day, so I suspect they felt the cold much more than me.

 

[jxc64]

Pre-heating is typically done by setting up a timer, either via MMCS in the car, or by using the app on an external device.

These things are not available for every model.

Pre-heating is a bit of a mixed blessing.

You can use some power to warm up the car before you use it, but that power comes out of the traction battery. If you do this while charging the car, some of that power will be provided by your charging connection, but not all of it.

The temperature rarely gets below 10°C where I live, so I've never used it.

The previous owner had pre-heating timers set to run twice per day, so I suspect they felt the cold much more than me.

Thanks, I guess it is not an option for me to get more mileage from the battery on cold days!

 

[PHEV07]

Thanks, I guess it is not an option for me to get more mileage from the battery on cold days!

If you can charge at Level 2 (240vAc) Most of your preheating can be done by the Charging Cable.

When I had my 2018 and 2022, I used to preheat while plugged in for about 15 minutes at temperatures between 0 to -10'C and for 1/2 hr for temps from -10 to as low as -30C and let car charge back up for 15 minutes or so before driving off. This would get me about 90% of the previously allowable Battery range.

I currently drive a 2024 PHEV with a Heat Pump. Temperatures have been about -5'C lately and when I preheat for 15 Minutes on Level 2, almost 100% of the power to operate the Heat Pump comes from the charge cable.

Prior to preheating, I now get a guessometer range of 74 kms. After stopping the preheat, the My Connect App shows 73 kms but after a few minutes, it goes back to 74 kms.

I will post elsewhere how much Heat I am getting out of the Heat Pump as the Ambient Temp starts to drop.

For thIs past week at -5'C outside temp, I am getting 30'C at the outlet vent on pure EV. Since my daily drive is only 10 minutes, I need to use heated seats as the interior heat barely reaches 10'C when I request 22'C.

This is on pure EV.

As the temperature drops I will need to use the Heat from the ICE, especially since once the outside Temperature drops below -15'C the Heat Pump will cease to operate.

More on this in another Thread which I have not started yet.

 

[ronnieracoon]

If you can charge at Level 2 (240vAc) Most of your preheating can be done by the Charging Cable.

When I had my 2018 and 2022, I used to preheat while plugged in for about 15 minutes at temperatures between 0 to -10'C and for 1/2 hr for temps from -10 to as low as -30C and let car charge back up for 15 minutes or so before driving off. This would get me about 90% of the previously allowable Battery range.

I currently drive a 2024 PHEV with a Heat Pump. Temperatures have been about -5'C lately and when I preheat for 15 Minutes on Level 2, almost 100% of the power to operate the Heat Pump comes from the charge cable.

Prior to preheating, I now get a guessometer range of 74 kms. After stopping the preheat, the My Connect App shows 73 kms but after a few minutes, it goes back to 74 kms.

I will post elsewhere how much Heat I am getting out of the Heat Pump as the Ambient Temp starts to drop.

For thIs past week at -5'C outside temp, I am getting 20'C at the outlet vent on pure EV. Since my daily drive is only 10 minutes, I need to use heated seats as the interior heat barely reaches 10'C when I request 22'C.

This is on pure EV.

As the temperature drops I will need to use the Heat from the ICE, especially since once the outside Temperature drops below -15'C the Heat Pump will cease to operate.

More on this in another Thread which I have not started yet.

At least your hockey team is kicking butt. That's a great compromise.

 

[jxc64]

At least your hockey team is kicking butt. That's a great compromise.

Oh, for a second I thought you meant the Penguins....... lol, terrible season so far for them!

 

[ronnieracoon]

Oh, for a second I thought you meant the Penguins....... lol, terrible season so far for them!

No, I was referring to Winnipeg. Penguins not as good...but still better than my team..Montreal..