DrSlackBladder
Well-known member
mandcandk said:
Mine says 18 miles after a full charge, unless I completely turn off the AC, then it immediately jumps to 25 miles. Do you have the AC on?
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Poor battery performance
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Mine says 18 miles after a full charge, unless I completely turn off the AC, then it immediately jumps to 25 miles. Do you have the AC on?
gwatpe
Well-known member
As well as the range being affected by the way the car has been driven in the last 10 mins or so, the Climate control system also affects the battery range the same way, that is heavy usage in the last 10 mins or so will have a big impact on the calculated battery range. The battery range is such a small component of the total range, that I pay little attention to it now, and rely purely on the battery gauge on the dash.
I have now had my Outlander Phev since mid September. It started with battery charge accumulating a range of 30 miles. It then went to 29 then 28 and now its down to 26,by the time its off the drive its down to 25 in 10 yards. Two days ago the actual miles it achieved was 21.5 .I have never had more than 25. Its in the garage today so they can charge it and give it a test drive. I'm only using the car on short journeys during the winter and is achieving between 97 and 100 percent efficiency, so I'm using battery most of the time. My argument with the garage is. How can the do 32.5 miles as advertised, when it will only charge up to 26. The salesman told me his Phev normally charged to 34.My fear is that when a battery doesn't hold a good charge ,Its a badun!. I also wish the camera would come on as soon as you switch on.
jaapv
Well-known member
The miles displayed are a summary of your driving style. They are not an indication of the capacity or charge level of the battery. You have gotten used to the car and your right foot has increased in weight.
I bet I could get it up to at least 30 just like that.
I bet I could get it up to at least 30 just like that.
The first miles shown are those of the range / charge shown on the dash indicator after full charge. I then reset the milometer for each full charge journey. I have never driven so slow, trying to save the battery distance. Certainly not heavy foot. I use the limiter regularly and rarely are able to go over 40mph due to speed limits. The actual miles on the milometer are the 21.5 to24 and 25. No where near the advertised 32.5 but reading some of these reports, some are worse. I cant see how I can get it up to 30 when it only starts of with 26 miles battery range.Im using the tools to generate charge instead of braking The dealer said he could get 30 out of it but when asked he wouldn't tell me how. Suspect he would be using save button driving in a manner to bring petrol engine on.Thanks anyway.Wish it was heavy foot.
greendwarf
Well-known member
sandy said:
Surely the advertised 32 is in one drive, probably on a flat test track, at a steady speed. with no acceleration/deceleration, on cruise control. Are you saying you can match this is your normal driving? - no traffic lights, road works, corners, roundabouts, cyclists etc. etc. Its a matter of physics, every time you slow down & then accelerate again you are using more energy. It is exactly the same with any normal fuel car.
greendwarf said:
A few weeks ago when the weather was still quite warm, I ran a test. Starting with a fully charged battery, with the aircon turned off, I managed 29.5 miles of genuine suburban driving - traffic lights, hills, a couple of short traffic jams and parking up for ten minutes to go to a shop.
jaapv
Well-known member
It is totally normal to get a higher or lower range from the car than the value shown by the meter. It produces a rough guesstimate at best.
The highest value I have seen on the mileage I actor was 98 Km.
That was after running downhill from a mountain pass in B5.
Did the battery last for 98 Kms after that? No. It lasted for less than 20. I had to climb the next pass.
The only thing this meter does is extrapolate the range by the state of charge of the battery and the power consumption in the period preceding. It is totally unreliable to draw any conclusions from it.
The highest value I have seen on the mileage I actor was 98 Km.
That was after running downhill from a mountain pass in B5.
Did the battery last for 98 Kms after that? No. It lasted for less than 20. I had to climb the next pass.
The only thing this meter does is extrapolate the range by the state of charge of the battery and the power consumption in the period preceding. It is totally unreliable to draw any conclusions from it.
I have done the same journey for 3 days in a row this week and started out arriving home just as the battery was empty. The last day I arrived home with 5 miles on the display so I am guessing the car is storing more energy than when I first got it.
the car is now showing 24 miles but I'm still hoping for a few more than that after some more charging. It does seem to be quite accurate depending on how much regen braking I do. Not going to complain if it stays @ 24 as I'll still be saving at least £90 in fuel.
the car is now showing 24 miles but I'm still hoping for a few more than that after some more charging. It does seem to be quite accurate depending on how much regen braking I do. Not going to complain if it stays @ 24 as I'll still be saving at least £90 in fuel.
jaapv
Well-known member
That is quite normal Li-Ion batteries need to be conditioned, i.e. run through a discharge-charge cycle a few times before coming up to full capacity
gwatpe
Well-known member
jaapv said:
I have to agree with jaapv, that the numbers for battery range are totally unreliable.
My PHEV is presently showing 30km battery range, fully recharged. I have seen 89km battery range fully recharged. All I can say is that on a particular test, on a flat road, with minimal stops and turns, a PHEV, I drove, was driven for 45km on a full charge. The PHEV is claimed 52km, so there is a bit of a shortfall, but I am not a professional driver in ideal conditions.
In reality the battery capacity is still important and we will need to rely on specialty test equipment to figure things out sometime down the track when the battery no longer accepts the full recharge amount from a corded full recharge. I just drove 4000km and did not look at any screen showing the battery range. The blue battery and fuel gauge, and the number of km driven since filling up the petrol was my guide. Had 10L petrol in a reserve can, still unused, but came very close to needing it.
On one day recently, my PHEV showed 90kWh REGEN and USEAGE. I am more concerned at how this will affect the battery when this sort of trip is repeated over time.
As blogged before .My Phev has already been into the dealer re poor actual mileage battery range, then 20/24. Mitsubishi say this is in range? They also tell me that the battery indication range on the dash reflects the previous journeys. I have now asked them if this is correct then why does the battery range indicator drop by 2 miles 2 hours after charge. I have also told them that I am now only getting 18/19.5 actual distance. This is with no heater on no headlights and semi rural driving under 40 mph. I rarely make journeys during the winter more than 20 miles round trip, so I'm not concerned about overall mpg as my driving efficiency in this lump is usually 97%to 100%. My car does not reflect the sales pitch at all. Now awaiting dealer.
jaapv
Well-known member
This will get you nowhere, as the figures given by Mitsubishi reflect the official EU testrun. They are forbidden by law to give any other. These figures do not relate to actual consumption by the user, they are for comparison purposes only.
gwatpe
Well-known member
The only way to get some real data on battery performance is from either measurement of the battery capacity using specific "MUK" test equipment, or by driving only on EV and then recharging when the ICE starts to operate. For the Latter, if the PHEV recharges with at least 10-11kWh with the supplied cord 10A recharger, then it is probable that the battery capacity is OK. For the former, ie testing by Mitsubishi service equipment, If the battery is measured and the reported data has the battery capacity lower than expected for the cars age, then there is a battery problem. Battery performance is subjective and for owners, battery measured capacity is really the only objective measure.
For a new car, the battery capacity should be as specified, ie 40Ah fully charged. Mitsubishi state that the battery is expected to lose less than 20% of its capacity in its service life.
My experience is that it is cheaper to replace the car, than the battery if the test shows a battery problem, early in the car life.
The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is a complex vehicle with many interconnected computer subsystems that can lead to systems malfunctions and even battery lifetime problems. My PHEV has had so many instances of systems malfunction, including safety aspects, that could have contributed to battery problems. The questions I have asked on the forum, about problems I have seen, seem to have been restricted to my car, with little direct support comments about similar experiences from others.
Hopefully tools will become available that allow PHEV owners to better assess the cars battery and the problems that I have seen do not become common. I hope my new PHEV will be problem free as many other owners PHEV seem to be.
For a new car, the battery capacity should be as specified, ie 40Ah fully charged. Mitsubishi state that the battery is expected to lose less than 20% of its capacity in its service life.
My experience is that it is cheaper to replace the car, than the battery if the test shows a battery problem, early in the car life.
The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is a complex vehicle with many interconnected computer subsystems that can lead to systems malfunctions and even battery lifetime problems. My PHEV has had so many instances of systems malfunction, including safety aspects, that could have contributed to battery problems. The questions I have asked on the forum, about problems I have seen, seem to have been restricted to my car, with little direct support comments about similar experiences from others.
Hopefully tools will become available that allow PHEV owners to better assess the cars battery and the problems that I have seen do not become common. I hope my new PHEV will be problem free as many other owners PHEV seem to be.
gwatpe
Well-known member
New replacement PHEV has arrived.
Have just completed the first battery only, actual drive range check. Previous PHEV returned 41.5km for a fixed local return to home drive with town, highway and hills travel. The new PHEV has returned 41.5km for the same drive plus a further 10.1km. Manufacturer has 52km for the battery range. My driving has not been that bad after all, but the new car has confirmed the original PHEV had lower battery capacity. Car is back on charge to check kWh needed to fill it back up.
It was worth the effort to persist with the battery checks. My car may have been a, one OFF. Mitsubishi will need to get on top of this battery capacity issue should other owners find their PHEV is not quite the same as it should be.
PS edit:
PHEV has now completed the full recharge and it took 11.5kWh. This is a full kWh more than my previous car had taken. This correlates with the measured reduced capacity the old car had. In addition, the new car only took 25 minutes to complete the constant voltage, tapered current phase.
If you have any concerns that the battery capacity has diminished, then checking how long the last phase takes will be a good start towards building a case for more investigations, in addition to the full recharge kWh.
BTW the predicted range for the full charge showed 88km and this is similar to numbers calculated by 2 other PHEV recharged after the same trip. The trip computers on all 3 PHEV behaved the same way.
Have just completed the first battery only, actual drive range check. Previous PHEV returned 41.5km for a fixed local return to home drive with town, highway and hills travel. The new PHEV has returned 41.5km for the same drive plus a further 10.1km. Manufacturer has 52km for the battery range. My driving has not been that bad after all, but the new car has confirmed the original PHEV had lower battery capacity. Car is back on charge to check kWh needed to fill it back up.
It was worth the effort to persist with the battery checks. My car may have been a, one OFF. Mitsubishi will need to get on top of this battery capacity issue should other owners find their PHEV is not quite the same as it should be.
PS edit:
PHEV has now completed the full recharge and it took 11.5kWh. This is a full kWh more than my previous car had taken. This correlates with the measured reduced capacity the old car had. In addition, the new car only took 25 minutes to complete the constant voltage, tapered current phase.
If you have any concerns that the battery capacity has diminished, then checking how long the last phase takes will be a good start towards building a case for more investigations, in addition to the full recharge kWh.
BTW the predicted range for the full charge showed 88km and this is similar to numbers calculated by 2 other PHEV recharged after the same trip. The trip computers on all 3 PHEV behaved the same way.
Thanks for that, I will keep on at the dealer and Mitsubishi. I rarely got as much as your old phev even when it was warm in September. Its cold today in the UK, Not freezing but cold. I got 22 miles out of the battery with the heater on so the petrol cut in giving me 74 mph and 74% efficiency on the same 22 miles. So paying for electric and petrol same 22 miles. My neighbour has one and his is doing a lot better same semi rural / urban journeys no faster than 40mph. He's getting 28. Anyway hope your new car keeps it up.
If the heater wasn't on then no petrol would be used and then it would be back down to 18.I agree 22 would be good if the amount of petrol had not been used at the same time. As I say my neighbour getting 28 in this weather .I've seen it with own eyes.
jaapv
Well-known member
First measure to the nearest tenth of a mm how deep he presses his accelerator - and then yourself. Only then can you compare.
Indeed - driving style has a very big impact on the fuel economy of a hybrid
