Outlander B3-5 Engine Spin-Up - Mike Mas

[LowOnCash]

Hey Guys - This is a test of my 23 Outlander PHEV to evaluate what happens when we select higher than B2 mode while in EV mode which causes the engine to start. (Depending on HV battery SOC)

As the car travels in EV mode in “D” (drive) the processor defaults regen level to B2 setting.

As we move “B” mode (regen) to either 3, 4, or 5, the gas engine will immediately start and begin a warm-up sequence running at 1500 rpm raising temperature to roughly 100+ degrees and to circulate oil thru the engine. Once the engine warms, it then decreases speed to around 1300 rpm in a readiness state.

During the mode change, the main processor calls up a protocol allowing the drive motors two continue to generate regen power to slow the car, however instead of using the regen to charge the battery, it instead must dissipate the regen energy in another form.

Therefore, rather than charge the battery the current is instead diverted to the engine starter / generator motor which I nick-named as a “High Speed Spin-up Sequence”

Therefore, as the accelerator is let off, the regen power created by the drive motors is sent to the engine starter motor, which then accelerates the engine from 1300 rpm high-idle, to well over 3000 rpm, depending on the cars speed. The higher the speed the faster the engine is turned to dissipate regen energy at 65 mph I witnessed RPM at 4000+ rpm.

Considering this is the state in B Mode, there is little to no regen advantages using higher than B2 while in EV mode at times. The Outlander is equipped with large disk and calipers to easily handle slowing the car using the service brake during high SOC. 


I included some images captured at the OBD port. The first image shows the engine in a warm up state running at 1500 rpm to reach around 100 degrees.

The second image shows the engine warmed in a B mode “ready state” and lowered to 1300 rpm waiting for regen or speed-up.
The third image shows after releasing the accelerator at 45 mph, the starter motor has now spun the engine to over 3000 rpm to dissipate regen energy.

The next two images show the regen levels from the drive motors as the accelerator is let up at the speed of 45 mph. I noted that regardless if the B mode was in 3-4 or 5 regen level did not change and remained constant.

Regards - Mike

ENGINE WARMUP 1500 rpm

ENGINE IN B MODE READY STAND BY 1300 RPM

ENGINE IN HIGH SPEED SPIN-UP 45 MPH 4000+ RPM @ 65 MPH

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

 

[PHEV07]

Hey Guys - This is a test of my 23 Outlander PHEV to evaluate what happens when we select higher than B2 mode while in EV mode which causes the engine to start. (Depending on HV battery SOC)

As the car travels in EV mode in “D” (drive) the processor defaults regen level to B2 setting.

As we move “B” mode (regen) to either 3, 4, or 5, the gas engine will immediately start and begin a warm-up sequence running at 1500 rpm raising temperature to roughly 100+ degrees and to circulate oil thru the engine. Once the engine warms, it then decreases speed to around 1300 rpm in a readiness state.

During the mode change, the main processor calls up a protocol allowing the drive motors two continue to generate regen power to slow the car, however instead of using the regen to charge the battery, it instead must dissipate the regen energy in another form.

Therefore, rather than charge the battery the current is instead diverted to the engine starter / generator motor which I nick-named as a “High Speed Spin-up Sequence”

Therefore, as the accelerator is let off, the regen power created by the drive motors is sent to the engine starter motor, which then accelerates the engine from 1300 rpm high-idle, to well over 3000 rpm, depending on the cars speed. The higher the speed the faster the engine is turned to dissipate regen energy at 65 mph I witnessed RPM at 4000+ rpm.

Considering this is the state in B Mode, there is little to no regen advantages using higher than B2 while in EV mode at times. The Outlander is equipped with large disk and calipers to easily handle slowing the car using the service brake during high SOC. 


I included some images captured at the OBD port. The first image shows the engine in a warm up state running at 1500 rpm to reach around 100 degrees.

The second image shows the engine warmed in a B mode “ready state” and lowered to 1300 rpm waiting for regen or speed-up.
The third image shows after releasing the accelerator at 45 mph, the starter motor has now spun the engine to over 3000 rpm to dissipate regen energy.

The next two images show the regen levels from the drive motors as the accelerator is let up at the speed of 45 mph. I noted that regardless if the B mode was in 3-4 or 5 regen level did not change and remained constant.

Regards - Mike

ENGINE WARMUP 1500 rpm

ENGINE IN B MODE READY STAND BY 1300 RPM

ENGINE IN HIGH SPEED SPIN-UP 45 MPH 4000+ RPM @ 65 MPH

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

Thank you for starting this Thread and for posting this information.

I picked up my 2024 Outlander PHEV - GT on April 8th.

I have been wondering why the ICE starts up when I paddled up to B3 or above.

So far I have found this to happen when the Ambient Temp is at 15'C (59'F) and lower. Drive Battery can be full, 1/2 full or when it only has enough SOC to last 10 kms.

Yet I can paddle up to B1 or B2 then apply the Brake Pedal and the ICE does not start yet Maximum Regeneration occurs. Makes no sense.

Still doing some testing while we are experiencing Ambient Temps lower than 15'C

I never noticed the B3 or higher position to cause the ICE start up when we had temps around 20'C, last week

My Drive Battery is now full, guestimating a range of 113 kms. Not real actual, just a guestimation, I know. I usually only get 90 to 95kms as I always drive in B0, driving in the city at best, but still very impressive

 

[RossWilliams]

I think its important to remember that in "serial" mode the engine is running to generate electric power. So I think you would expect to see an increase in the rpm's when the load on the generator was reduced by the power from braking. That increase in rpm's would not mean more gas is being burned, it means the gas burned is turning the engine/generator faster.

 

[Terry Yates]

Thank you for starting this Thread and for posting this information.

I picked up my 2024 Outlander PHEV - GT on April 8th.

I have been wondering why the ICE starts up when I paddled up to B3 or above.

So far I have found this to happen when the Ambient Temp is at 15'C (59'F) and lower. Drive Battery can be full, 1/2 full or when it only has enough SOC to last 10 kms.

Yet I can paddle up to B1 or B2 then apply the Brake Pedal and the ICE does not start yet Maximum Regeneration occurs. Makes no sense.

Still doing some testing while we are experiencing Ambient Temps lower than 15'C

I never noticed the B3 or higher position to cause the ICE start up when we had temps around 20'C, last week

My Drive Battery is now full, guestimating a range of 113 kms. Not real actual, just a guestimation, I know. I usually only get 90 to 95kms as I always drive in B0, driving in the city at best, but still very impressive

Thank you for starting this Thread and for posting this information.

I picked up my 2024 Outlander PHEV - GT on April 8th.

I have been wondering why the ICE starts up when I paddled up to B3 or above.

So far I have found this to happen when the Ambient Temp is at 15'C (59'F) and lower. Drive Battery can be full, 1/2 full or when it only has enough SOC to last 10 kms.

Yet I can paddle up to B1 or B2 then apply the Brake Pedal and the ICE does not start yet Maximum Regeneration occurs. Makes no sense.

Still doing some testing while we are experiencing Ambient Temps lower than 15'C

I never noticed the B3 or higher position to cause the ICE start up when we had temps around 20'C, last week

My Drive Battery is now full, guestimating a range of 113 kms. Not real actual, just a guestimation, I know. I usually only get 90 to 95kms as I always drive in B0, driving in the city at best, but still very impressive

check out https://www.richi.uk/p/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-faq.html

 

[Terry Yates]

Thank you for starting this Thread and for posting this information.

I picked up my 2024 Outlander PHEV - GT on April 8th.

I have been wondering why the ICE starts up when I paddled up to B3 or above.

So far I have found this to happen when the Ambient Temp is at 15'C (59'F) and lower. Drive Battery can be full, 1/2 full or when it only has enough SOC to last 10 kms.

Yet I can paddle up to B1 or B2 then apply the Brake Pedal and the ICE does not start yet Maximum Regeneration occurs. Makes no sense.

Still doing some testing while we are experiencing Ambient Temps lower than 15'C

I never noticed the B3 or higher position to cause the ICE start up when we had temps around 20'C, last week

My Drive Battery is now full, guestimating a range of 113 kms. Not real actual, just a guestimation, I know. I usually only get 90 to 95kms as I always drive in B0, driving in the city at best, but still very impressive

check out https://www.richi.uk/p/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-faq.html

 

[littlescrote]

If there

I think its important to remember that in "serial" mode the engine is running to generate electric power. So I think you would expect to see an increase in the rpm's when the load on the generator was reduced by the power from braking. That increase in rpm's would not mean more gas is being burned, it means the gas burned is turning the engine/generator faster.

If there's less load, the engine management will put in less fuel, therefore the rpm wouldn't rise.

 

[RossWilliams]

If there

If there's less load, the engine management will put in less fuel, therefore the rpm wouldn't rise.

Maybe. But my take was that it is similar to downshifting with a stick shift. The engine revs. Not the same obviously, but my thought was that if you take the load off the engine you might get a similar result before any reduced fuel slows the engine.

 

[Ecological]

Hey Guys - This is a test of my 23 Outlander PHEV to evaluate what happens when we select higher than B2 mode while in EV mode which causes the engine to start. (Depending on HV battery SOC)

As the car travels in EV mode in “D” (drive) the processor defaults regen level to B2 setting.

As we move “B” mode (regen) to either 3, 4, or 5, the gas engine will immediately start and begin a warm-up sequence running at 1500 rpm raising temperature to roughly 100+ degrees and to circulate oil thru the engine. Once the engine warms, it then decreases speed to around 1300 rpm in a readiness state.

During the mode change, the main processor calls up a protocol allowing the drive motors two continue to generate regen power to slow the car, however instead of using the regen to charge the battery, it instead must dissipate the regen energy in another form.

Therefore, rather than charge the battery the current is instead diverted to the engine starter / generator motor which I nick-named as a “High Speed Spin-up Sequence”

Therefore, as the accelerator is let off, the regen power created by the drive motors is sent to the engine starter motor, which then accelerates the engine from 1300 rpm high-idle, to well over 3000 rpm, depending on the cars speed. The higher the speed the faster the engine is turned to dissipate regen energy at 65 mph I witnessed RPM at 4000+ rpm.

Considering this is the state in B Mode, there is little to no regen advantages using higher than B2 while in EV mode at times. The Outlander is equipped with large disk and calipers to easily handle slowing the car using the service brake during high SOC. 


I included some images captured at the OBD port. The first image shows the engine in a warm up state running at 1500 rpm to reach around 100 degrees.

The second image shows the engine warmed in a B mode “ready state” and lowered to 1300 rpm waiting for regen or speed-up.
The third image shows after releasing the accelerator at 45 mph, the starter motor has now spun the engine to over 3000 rpm to dissipate regen energy.

The next two images show the regen levels from the drive motors as the accelerator is let up at the speed of 45 mph. I noted that regardless if the B mode was in 3-4 or 5 regen level did not change and remained constant.

Regards - Mike

ENGINE WARMUP 1500 rpm

ENGINE IN B MODE READY STAND BY 1300 RPM

ENGINE IN HIGH SPEED SPIN-UP 45 MPH 4000+ RPM @ 65 MPH

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

Hey Guys - This is a test of my 23 Outlander PHEV to evaluate what happens when we select higher than B2 mode while in EV mode which causes the engine to start. (Depending on HV battery SOC)

As the car travels in EV mode in “D” (drive) the processor defaults regen level to B2 setting.

As we move “B” mode (regen) to either 3, 4, or 5, the gas engine will immediately start and begin a warm-up sequence running at 1500 rpm raising temperature to roughly 100+ degrees and to circulate oil thru the engine. Once the engine warms, it then decreases speed to around 1300 rpm in a readiness state.

During the mode change, the main processor calls up a protocol allowing the drive motors two continue to generate regen power to slow the car, however instead of using the regen to charge the battery, it instead must dissipate the regen energy in another form.

Therefore, rather than charge the battery the current is instead diverted to the engine starter / generator motor which I nick-named as a “High Speed Spin-up Sequence”

Therefore, as the accelerator is let off, the regen power created by the drive motors is sent to the engine starter motor, which then accelerates the engine from 1300 rpm high-idle, to well over 3000 rpm, depending on the cars speed. The higher the speed the faster the engine is turned to dissipate regen energy at 65 mph I witnessed RPM at 4000+ rpm.

Considering this is the state in B Mode, there is little to no regen advantages using higher than B2 while in EV mode at times. The Outlander is equipped with large disk and calipers to easily handle slowing the car using the service brake during high SOC. 


I included some images captured at the OBD port. The first image shows the engine in a warm up state running at 1500 rpm to reach around 100 degrees.

The second image shows the engine warmed in a B mode “ready state” and lowered to 1300 rpm waiting for regen or speed-up.
The third image shows after releasing the accelerator at 45 mph, the starter motor has now spun the engine to over 3000 rpm to dissipate regen energy.

The next two images show the regen levels from the drive motors as the accelerator is let up at the speed of 45 mph. I noted that regardless if the B mode was in 3-4 or 5 regen level did not change and remained constant.

Regards - Mike

ENGINE WARMUP 1500 rpm

ENGINE IN B MODE READY STAND BY 1300 RPM

ENGINE IN HIGH SPEED SPIN-UP 45 MPH 4000+ RPM @ 65 MPH

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

REGEN LEVELS THROTTLE RELEASED

Hi Mike. Thank you most kindly for the information. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I have been told off for putting the car in normal by some smart alec, and now you have proven that there is nothing wrong in putting the car in normal. I have even worked out the cost of regen, as opposed to public charging. Obviously it is energy on top of energy in one form or another and from one form to another. The battery is charged by putting it on regen, and in very simplistic terms, energy to charge the battery or to drive it exclusively on EV has to come from somewhere, hence your most sagacious theory...it is just which form of energy you wish to use. Today I drove 14 miles on Normal, and mostly on B0. The car recorded more than 100mpg, on my old model, it records ---------- three lines, as it does not record mpg of more than 99miles per gallon. The EV driving recorded 100%. I drove at 30mph, braking twice. My battery was charged to full. [12kWh]. It used up 6kWh for 14 miles so I know that I have mostly used the battery, and as it is a hybrid, some petrol [44 miles for 1 litre roughly, so 14 miles used up about 0.31818 litres]. Apologies Mike, but all units are imperial UK. So the cost for 14 miles would be 46 pence and battery would be 56.4 pence. Without being able to be totally exact, it is roughly £1. I do not think I could have done any better. When Top Gear was testing electric cars, the faster the speed, the less the range of the battery, and similarly for hybrids and for petrol cars. And I understand that, as the faster the speed, the more energy it will use. The slower the speed [up to a point..and I do not mean ridiculous speed like 4mph], the greater the range, and the less energy it will use.

 

[kpetrov]

Hi Mike. Thank you most kindly for the information. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I have been told off for putting the car in normal by some smart alec, and now you have proven that there is nothing wrong in putting the car in normal.


Today I drove 14 miles on Normal, and mostly on B0. The car recorded more than 100mpg, on my old model, it records ---------- three lines, as it does not record mpg of more than 99miles per gallon. The EV driving recorded 100%.

Well while driving in to the battery range it doesn't actually matter Normal or EV
Driving strategy starts to matter once one drives out of battery range.