Newbie - tomorrow is the day...

[fuzed]

Hello All...

Hopefully getting a new Outlander PHEV 2.4 4H tomorrow in black as the company car, as it was not too bad on tax, I'm coming from a old MK4 Golf TDI and a Merc C350CDI (weekend car). The merc will be getting sold will miss the beast, and the golf - undecided as of yet as its so old!!! don't want to scrap her, but I doubt I'll use her.

Anyway does someone have a link about this regenerative braking? how does it actually work, and is it worth bothering etc?

Thanks

 

[Regulo]

Welcome. What is there to tell about regen braking? In practical terms, not much. When you take your foot off the accelerator, the electric motors act like electric generators and put charge into the drive battery. While this is happening, the effect is to slow the car down. The level of this regen can be adjusted by steering wheel paddles between B0 (effectively freewheeling) and B5 (maximum braking effect).

Now the techie nerds will be along to show you graphs and diagrams to explain how every last electron moves, taking account of the ambient temperature, barometric pressure, phase of the moon and what you had for breakfast. (You know who you are!!!). Take no notice and enjoy driving it.

 

[user 2238]

My little contribution. Use B5 in town traffic (not so much for the tiny recharging effect, but it beats moving your foot across!), and be aware that if you're B4 or B5 at motorway speeds, your brake lights will come on when you take your foot off the accelerator.

 

[greendwarf]

The effect of paddling up to a higher setting is similar to changing down in a manual car to get engine braking but you get the bonus of energy going back into the battery. So unlike above, I travel everywhere in B0 (coasting) only flicking the "gear stick" to B3 and B5 when I need to brake rather than use my foot to control it. Overall the effect is the same, it is just a matter of personal style.

 

[fuzed]

Thanks All, I didn't know that, so it was worth asking the question... I do mostly A road commuting so not lots of breaking apart from when I hit Milton Keynes and the wonderful roundabouts. But Motorways once a month or so, will ensure I use the correct mode - I use cruise a lot so am sure I'll get used to it!

 

[greendwarf]

Ah roundabouts - already got a speeding ticket for seeing how fast I can negotiate one in Essex due to the excellent handling with such a low centre of gravity. :lol: Mind you, I am hard on tyres as a result but still fun.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

I'm about 3 trips into my new-to-me MY16. Drove like a nun last night in eco mode shifting through the B4/B5 to avoid braking and still only managed 17 miles in EV. This is the UK and the temperature dipped to about 5oC so that may be it but I'm interested to see how I can improve that with threads like this.

I disconnected the battery in the boot for 10secs to clear the eV range estimate based on the previous owner's performance and have just plugged in an Obd to use Watchdog to understand better what I'm doing wrong

 

[Regulo]

Did you have the heater on? That can have a negative effect on range. 17 seems a bit on the low side, if you were really being careful. The Guessometer is just that - a guess based on the mileage obtained the car was last driven. Someone said for the previous 5 minutes, but not sure about that.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Did you have the heater on? That can have a negative effect on range. 17 seems a bit on the low side, if you were really being careful. The Guessometer is just that - a guess based on the mileage obtained the car was last driven. Someone said for the previous 5 minutes, but not sure about that.

Hey Ray, thanks for the input. Hmm, I thought i'd turned the heating off as I definitely had the heated seat on but now I'm wondering if I just had the heating on low and not actually off. I'll watch for that next time. I've got a militant Leaf-driving brother to prove wrong about the PHEV!!!

I noticed I was in "B" on the gear stick and wasn't sure what that meant but having had a read of the manual it appears just to be saying that I am using regen braking (presumably disappearing if I paddle to B0.

 

[ChrisMiller]

Yes 'D' is identical to 'B2'. A slight note of caution about using B0, which is equivalent to coasting in neutral on a standard (ICE) car - I wouldn't do this all the time if you're a multi-car family and frequently drive other cars, as the lack of engine braking when you lift off might catch you out.

By spending time playing with the paddles, you may be able to eke out an extra mile or two on the electric range, but there's nothing wrong with leaving the car in 'D' and letting it sort itself out.

 

[greendwarf]

Also are these 17 miles on round trips? Even if yes, any significant uphill sections? These will cane the battery and you often don't get back much via regen braking, especially in traffic, unless you can coast "for free" in B0 for most of the downhill returns.

 

[bounderboy]

Also are these 17 miles on round trips? Even if yes, any significant uphill sections? These will cane the battery and you often don't get back much via regen braking, especially in traffic, unless you can coast "for free" in B0 for most of the downhill returns.

I am confused now.. Surely having regen on downward sections would give you electricity positive .. Whilst coasting in B0 would give you Electricity neutral at most ?

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Also are these 17 miles on round trips? Even if yes, any significant uphill sections? These will cane the battery and you often don't get back much via regen braking, especially in traffic, unless you can coast "for free" in B0 for most of the downhill returns.

Thanks. Hmm, interestingly I just measured it on google maps and it's 9.7 miles each way so 19.5 miles round trip so that's already an improvement, not sure where I got the 17 miles from. Yup, round trip, on the way it's 315ft total climb, 387ft total fall. On the way back it's...erm...the same Got you, there's a few lights on the way and one of the two big downhills is definitely inefficient (not one I can coast down so using the more inefficient B5 option, if not combined with braking).

Will have to keep an eye on it. Whats your view on the optimum that Mitsubishi have judged the Outlander to be capable of 32 mile range; flat motorway 32oC driven at 56 mph hidden behind a lorry?

Got PHEV watchdog now, doesn't appear to be recording more than a few minutes but will have a read up and start a new thread on that.

 

[bounderboy]

Hello All...

Hopefully getting a new Outlander PHEV 2.4 4H tomorrow in black as the company car, as it was not too bad on tax, I'm coming from a old MK4 Golf TDI and a Merc C350CDI (weekend car). The merc will be getting sold will miss the beast, and the golf - undecided as of yet as its so old!!! don't want to scrap her, but I doubt I'll use her.

Anyway does someone have a link about this regenerative braking? how does it actually work, and is it worth bothering etc?

Thanks

Did it arrive? An pictures.. we all need to see pictures!

 

[greendwarf]

300+ is a significant height to lift a 2 ton car, so you use a lot of energy. Whilst in theory coming back down should be "free" (if you could coast all the way in B0) in practice, in traffic, there will periods of regen and then acceleration and energy losses between the two. One of the disadvantages of using higher B settings (unless steep decline) is that you may over-brake the car and so lose momentum i.e. needing to accelerate again to keep up with other traffic.

I have a similar 12.9 mile journey across London from 98 feet in Clapham down to the river and back up to 262 feet at Hendon. As I normally start with a full battery and the drop to river level is short and in traffic, I get little benefit and then climb steadily on the other side of the river with little flat coasting or downhill sections plus 2 40mph sections. So by the time I arrive the 25+ "guesstimate" is down to less than 10.

Coming back there is usually less traffic and lots of "free" lengthy coasting opportunities (but too gradual for regen) down to the river, when I will still have a few miles range left. However, the return to home at 98 feet rapidly uses this so that I am about a mile short when the ICE kicks in.

Without any other "normal" trips the "guessometer" will often show 30 - so I am surprised you don't get a better range prediction. However, an actual 19+ doesn't seem too bad and could be improved slightly by modifying your driving to get more "free" miles in B0 and braking less e.g. lift off earlier to coast up to traffic lights.

 

[zzcoopej]

So unlike above, I travel everywhere in B0 (coasting) only flicking the "gear stick" to B3 and B5 when I need to brake rather than use my foot to control it. Overall the effect is the same, it is just a matter of personal style.

Just incase newbies missed this point from Greendwarf, remember the FOOT brake will still use regen whenever possible, regardless of the regen paddle settings. So even in B0 if you put your foot on the brake, the power gauge on the dash to the left of the speedo will confirm regen (ie the blue "Charge" section) just like using the regen paddles.

Effectively, the B0-B5 regen paddles just change the "zero point" ie what happens when you are not touching the accelerator OR brake. B0 = freewheel, B5 = slow down without touching the foot brake.

 

[cornclose]

Just incase newbies missed this point from Greendwarf, remember the FOOT brake will still use regen whenever possible, regardless of the regen paddle settings. So even in B0 if you put your foot on the brake, the power gauge on the dash to the left of the speedo will confirm regen (ie the blue "Charge" section) just like using the regen paddles.

Effectively, the B0-B5 regen paddles just change the "zero point" ie what happens when you are not touching the accelerator OR brake. B0 = freewheel, B5 = slow down without touching the foot brake.

Yes quite correct. I have also noticed increased regen when applying light pressure to the foot brake even when already in B5 - almost as if it is a 'B6 or B7' setting.

Does anyone know at what point(s) the brake pads actually apply braking force to the discs ?

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Be aware that braking in B0 adds only a couple of kW to regen, so the vast majority of braking will be by heating up your disks using the pads. So you're wasting most of the potential kinetic energy in B0. In B5, it can put over 30kW into the battery when you lift off, and more than 40kW when you press the brake, so far less energy is wasted in the brakes.

Coasting applies some torque (and therefore power) to the motors, so is not "free", though the amounts are small. I don't understand all these posts about the marvel of coasting in B0, when you can coast quite easily in B5 - any time the power meter is flat, no power is going to the battery or the motors. And who "over-brakes"? In B5, you can lift your foot totally off the accelerator and slow down, or lift it slightly and coast, or anything in between. The throttle isn't an on-off switch!

 

[greendwarf]

And who "over-brakes"? In B5, you can lift your foot totally off the accelerator and slow down, or lift it slightly and coast, or anything in between. The throttle isn't an on-off switch!

Decrepit old codgers like me who lack ThudnBlundr's subtle footwork skills! :lol: Interestingly having braked heavily from 40mph last night (I flick up from B0 to B5 automatically), I forgot to switch back to B0 and noticed at the end of the fast stretch that the guesstimate had dropped from 5 to 2 miles, i.e. I seem to have "lost" 3 miles - possibly due to being in the higher setting :idea: NB. This is a regular journey.

PS. Why would I want to have to be adjusting my right foot pressure down a decline rather have the car coasting?

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Did you used to drive an ICE by continually speeding up and slowing down? Or did you use the accelerator to modulate your speed to the conditions? It's not that tricky even for an old bloke like me

And why on earth would increasing the 'B' setting affect your range? It has no effect whatsoever on power used for a given speed or acceleration, only on regen.