Miles displayed after full charge

[andrew]

I regularly get high 20's locally and on runs to and from London from Poole Dorset I can easily get around 40. By judicial use of the regen I have managed to get as high as 47miles range which I then use when getting into the traffic at the City. There is a trick to this!
I start with about 30 mile range and use enough so that regen kicks in. From then on I use regen 5 and coast down hill whenever possible with light foot on accelerator to ensure I don't lose too much speed. This slowly builds up the range and over the 100 miles to the outskirts of London I build up the range well in excess of 40. I probably average about 65mph on the journey. I've posted this on a number of forums along with photos of my dash to prove the range figure.
IMHO it's all about careful driving, anticipation and observation...
I've had my PHEV since Sept 2014 with now 16,000 miles and I'm delighted with it. Around Poole for daily use I never use petrol and I have Solar PV on the roof so running costs couldn't be better.

 

[anko]

I thought, Anko, we'd finally killed off this urban myth If the heating is set to minimum (15c in UK) then even with the Aircon on you only get cold air and the ICE does NOT start :mrgreen:

You are right. There is a second way. My bad. :mrgreen:

 

[anko]

By judicial use of the regen I have managed to get as high as 47miles range which I then use when getting into the traffic at the City. There is a trick to this! ...
I've posted this on a number of forums along with photos of my dash to prove the range figure.

This means nothing. Especially as you were going down hill while coasting. I had my Outlander Diesel promise me 2000 km on a quarter of a tank (and posted pictures of it ). While towing a 1500 kg caravan! The question that matters is: how many miles did you actually get out of this charge? I bet way less than 47.

 

[jaapv]

I got 78 Km coming down from the Passo Gardena to Brunico, - only 1300 m difference- and I did not even try. Driving up the next climb got me 18 Km of electrical range.
I'll try a really large altitude drop some time, I bet I can get it up to 150 Km at least

 

[anko]

I got 78 Km coming down from the Passo Gardena to Brunico, - only 1300 m difference- and I did not even try. Driving up the next climb got me 18 Km of electrical range.
I'll try a really large altitude drop some time, I bet I can get it up to 150 Km at least

That is roughly what I got coming down from the Col du Galibier in the French Alps. I don't know whether you will make 150 km, though. At some point the battery is (near) full and it will stop regenning.

Come to think of it, do you know of any places in Europe where you can loose 2600 meters?

 

[maby]

I got 78 Km coming down from the Passo Gardena to Brunico, - only 1300 m difference- and I did not even try. Driving up the next climb got me 18 Km of electrical range.
I'll try a really large altitude drop some time, I bet I can get it up to 150 Km at least

That is roughly what I got coming down from the Col du Galibier in the French Alps. I don't know whether you will make 150 km, though. At some point the battery is (near) full and it will stop regenning.

Come to think of it, do you know of any places in Europe where you can loose 2600 meters?

Surely it's not so much the height difference as the total road distance of the descent? Dropping a thousand metres over a distance of 100km will probably have a bigger effect on estimated EV range than dropping 1500 metres over a distance of 10km, won't it?

 

[anko]

I got 78 Km coming down from the Passo Gardena to Brunico, - only 1300 m difference- and I did not even try. Driving up the next climb got me 18 Km of electrical range.
I'll try a really large altitude drop some time, I bet I can get it up to 150 Km at least

That is roughly what I got coming down from the Col du Galibier in the French Alps. I don't know whether you will make 150 km, though. At some point the battery is (near) full and it will stop regenning.

Come to think of it, do you know of any places in Europe where you can loose 2600 meters?

Surely it's not so much the height difference as the total road distance of the descent? Dropping a thousand metres over a distance of 100km will probably have a bigger effect on estimated EV range than dropping 1500 metres over a distance of 10km, won't it?

When you loose 1000 meters over 100 km, the average slope is 1%. I don't think this will have any noticeable effect. As a matter of fact, I don't think you will doing much regenning and you will be burning fuel instead. Especially if you do not want to drive it like a milk float

There is two parts of it: how much energy can you gather in your battery?
How much energy / mile did you use during your descent?

I think it is mostly the very low energy / mile that makes there EV range go up. Even when you can't increase your SOC. Like I saw with my diesel: I was not putting anything back in the tank, and yet the predicted range went sky high.

 

[gwatpe]

I posted some pics over a year ago of some of the PHEV estimates of range I have seen while driving. I think 89km was the best I recorded. Never measured how far this went, as SAVE mode muddies the waters. I am sure someone will eventually see and even get a pic of a number over 100km. Anko's pic is disqualified.

One day on a road with no traffic, I hope to drive and see how far a battery will get you in an emergency type usage at very low speeds. Maybe 100km is possible?

 

[anko]

Anko's pic is disqualified.

But I understand why ....

 

[gwatpe]

He He.

 

[greendwarf]

By judicial use of the regen I have managed to get as high as 47miles range which I then use when getting into the traffic at the City. There is a trick to this! ...
I've posted this on a number of forums along with photos of my dash to prove the range figure.

This means nothing. Especially as you were going down hill while coasting. I had my Outlander Diesel promise me 2000 km on a quarter of a tank (and posted pictures of it ). While towing a 1500 kg caravan! The question that matters is: how many miles did you actually get out of this charge? I bet way less than 47.

Anko's right - this quote from the OP is rubbish, if it is meant to imply Andrew actually has 47 miles of EV available to use in London. As stated ad infinitum this figure merely means that if he continues with his "judicial use of the regen" on a similar road he could travel this distance on EV. Of course, once he gets to London the traffic conditions will be very different and he will be lucky to get much more than about 20 miles.

Certainly you can never better Mitsu's test track 32 unless you have access to a long coast/Regen opportunity (as mentioned in above posts) which is impossible in London (apart from the MC Escher designed roads Sarf on the river :lol: )

 

[jaapv]

I got 78 Km coming down from the Passo Gardena to Brunico, - only 1300 m difference- and I did not even try. Driving up the next climb got me 18 Km of electrical range.
I'll try a really large altitude drop some time, I bet I can get it up to 150 Km at least

That is roughly what I got coming down from the Col du Galibier in the French Alps. I don't know whether you will make 150 km, though. At some point the battery is (near) full and it will stop regenning.

Come to think of it, do you know of any places in Europe where you can loose 2600 meters?

Well, you can get close: Col d'Iseran-Albertville: 2425 meters.

 

[anko]

Well, you can get close: Col d'Iseran-Albertville: 2425 meters.

Actually not a bad idea. But I am afraid that on the stretch From Bourg-Saint-Maurice to Albertville, you will start loosing EV range. Not gaining more ... Too flat.

 

[andrew]

I don't want to get into an argument BUT I've been driving this PHEV for over a year and certainly do get way over 32+ miles using the regen as described. I have on a number of occasions used this ploy and enjoyed all driving around London using EV only. Don't knock it until you try it.
I admit, depending on driving conditions and style of driving, when the range has indicated 40+ I might reduce this to mid 30's.
Remember the battery will stop charging when it gets to around 80% so there is plenty of margin still to go. It also cuts out with 20% left - as far as I know this can't be accessed.

 

[anko]

Andrew, I've been driving mine for more than 25 months now over a distance of more than 40000 miles. Quite a bunch of these miles where in hills / mountains environment and quite a bunch wile towing. Believe me, I have a rough idea of what I am talking about, when it comes to the effect of regenning

Remember the battery will stop charging when it gets to around 80% so there is plenty of margin still to go. It also cuts out with 20% left - as far as I know this can't be accessed.

Stop charging at 80%? Leaving a margin to go? You do not suggest that regenning could produce a higher SOC than a GRID charge? Because this seems not to be the case. Have you even noticed that regen does not work, directly after a complete GRID charge? Regen needs a hole in the battery. A hole that is not there after a complete GRID charge.

Anyway, now that you have lowered your 'offer' from 47 to 32+ miles (which even I have managed from time to time, even on the big flat plane they call the Netherlands), I think we are all in sync again

 

[andrew]

Sorry you haven't read my original post properly. I said you do have to drop the original charge to get regen working. I'm not going to respond further. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[gwatpe]

I regularly get high 20's locally and on runs to and from London from Poole Dorset I can easily get around 40. By judicial use of the regen I have managed to get as high as 47miles range which I then use when getting into the traffic at the City. There is a trick to this!
I start with about 30 mile range and use enough so that regen kicks in. From then on I use regen 5 and coast down hill whenever possible with light foot on accelerator to ensure I don't lose too much speed. This slowly builds up the range and over the 100 miles to the outskirts of London I build up the range well in excess of 40. I probably average about 65mph on the journey. I've posted this on a number of forums along with photos of my dash to prove the range figure.
IMHO it's all about careful driving, anticipation and observation...
I've had my PHEV since Sept 2014 with now 16,000 miles and I'm delighted with it. Around Poole for daily use I never use petrol and I have Solar PV on the roof so running costs couldn't be better.

There is only mention of a build up of the predicted range in this post.

I too have had predicted range up as high as 85km from a similar driving style.

The actual miles driven for me when the PHEV has indicated this high has always been much lower though. I now have a method of analyzing my drives and identifying when my driving style offers the best driving economy, for electric as well as petrol and also hybrid modes.

Very low speeds on electric only, with careful use of brakes and accelerator give excellent battery range. Series hybrid in the same conditions return around 3.5L/100km for me.

The measured total driven km, including the maximum available REGEN in ideal conditions for electric only driving is highly subjective. As I have found, a particular driving style that I believe makes my drive more comfortable while returning good fuel and battery economy, may only work for me. Finding a more general driving style that can help many more PHEV owners is proving to be a lot more difficult.

The driving at a speed of 65mph, unfortunately is not very efficient, and we tend to lose the bigger picture objective, to reduce petrol consumption. The benefit of us all driving at a max 60mph seems to be lost. Are we suffering from too much "Hurry sickness".

 

[jaapv]

The flaw in the reasoning is that it equates predicted miles with state of charge. That is incorrect and misleading.
The OP is right that by using regen one can pump up the predicted mileage to very high numbers. Those miles would probably even be attained -and more- if driving conditions could be maintained. However, unfortunately no road goes downhill all the way for 100 miles unless we are on our way to Hades.
As soon as we start going uphill or are driving level again the distance prediction will come down double fast.

 

[westdevon]

The guessometer is responsible for an enormous number of misconceptions on this forum. The problem is we want to believe it when it shows a high number. If only we had a decent battery charge meter. The blue column is way too vague.

There are two trip mileometers in the car, maybe it would help if one of them could automatically reset. That would help on "all EV" trips. I forget most of the time myself, there are more interesting things to look at on the display.

 

[gwatpe]

Once the driver has the tools to record a trip, including the style that increases the predicted range number, as well as the style used later to make use of any predicted benefit, and then analyzing the data will any actual benefit be realized.

Sometimes we just need to prove a theory right or wrong ourselves by analyzing some data. The tools available in the factory supplied PHEV seem to be causing no end of misinformation that is fueling debate that is not easily objectively proven either way.

I am fortunate to have made a tool running on a Windows PC, to break down logged PHEV data in an order I have set up from a complex trip, into any number of smaller parts for analysis. I am not in a position to as yet share this program, as with any complex tool that requires integration with a 3rd party app and additional complications running on PC or MAC has some setup issues working with the user defined logging files that are a variable with a few trillion combinations.

The predicted range is just a curio for me now. My driving needs cannot benefit from any number that is displayed, that always seems to be an overestimate.

PS edit: The PHEV has the %SOC available to 0.5%, yet only has a bar graph with 16bars. Seems to indicate that MMC have place little value on providing a more precise number. The predicted range needs to be put in a low value box as well.