Let's go pure EV...

[vtechtuning]

Tipper - Sorry for rude answer. I changed it.

 

[vtechtuning]

I started to think about an alternative idea. Let's alter PHEV ecu to accept additional IDs at CAN, and change behaviour according to these IDs. As they won't be factory codes, if the source of commands is silent (or removed from car - let it be plugged into OBD2 port) - there is no way to activate "mod". Everything works and diagnoses as in standard car.
In that case it won't be ECO button, who activates "mod" but external small CAN transmitter (like iGate - with one button - on/off).
What do you think :?:

 

[Tipper]

Change noted.

I would be happy to have a plug in 'dongle' that changed the control system as this could be removed and replaced easily and without needing to be a computer geek! :lol: Being of an older generation I don't have the same trust of things software based as most children now have! :roll:

 

[zzcoopej]

In that case it won't be ECO button, who activates "mod" but external small CAN transmitter (like iGate - with one button - on/off).... What do you think :?:

A very smart idea! Is it possible just to use a standard OBD and have a phone App to change the ECU programs? I'm guessing the reprogramming might take a bit of time, and you couldn't drive while reprogramming is underway? (you said a few minutes, did you mean this literally?)
How is it done on other vehicles? Plenty of cars get ECU reprogramming, the only difference here is that it is an EV right?

 

[vtechtuning]

Ok, Zzcoopej. I start writing code for that today - must write some lines of code for that, maybe I will be able to test it soon.

 

[PolishPilot]

I Have a dealership of V-Tech Tuning around the corner,
but my car is on 5 year leasing contract
and with 5 years warranty, so I will pass on being a beta tester.

Nevertheless, on the very day the leasing and warranty expires,
I will immediately contact the company and do the mod.

Congratulations on your mod, I also hope in 3,5 years new
battery types will be available and the modification
to higher capacity battery together with EV only mode
will be a must for me.

Keep your work going on in Kraków, I will be watching closely.

In few years there certainly will be a big tuning market for
EV and PHEVs.

Gratulacje i pozdrowienia z Warszawy!

 

[vtechtuning]

I also hope in 3,5 years new
battery types will be available and the modification
to higher capacity battery together with EV only mode
will be a must for me.

I have bought cells to rebuild battery from LEV40 modules (Mitsu customized cells manufactured by Lithium Energy Japan) to equivalent of LEV50 (they are "clones" of LEV50, chinese, probably not as durable, but not expensive, so I can do test). I wonder if car will correctly use higher capacity or again I need to tweak PHEV ecu and/or BMS. Geometrically it is no more space for higher capacity with this chemistry. Other way could be Tesla way (theoretically if I pack whole free space inside battery and remove plactic craddles, mountings etc etc, I can have up to 19-19,5 kWh, but battery will be noticeably heavier of course).
I have one more PHEV battery, damaged (bought cheap) so I will refubrish it to be 15kWh battery but now no time for that (maybe in 2-3 months I will sit and do that).

That's true, that having 15kWh or so in this battery + mod will give a nice range. Now I have range of 60 km (real, as display shows 64-68 after full charge) so it will be about 75 km range with 15kWh

 

[jaapv]

I started to think about an alternative idea. Let's alter PHEV ecu to accept additional IDs at CAN, and change behaviour according to these IDs. As they won't be factory codes, if the source of commands is silent (or removed from car - let it be plugged into OBD2 port) - there is no way to activate "mod". Everything works and diagnoses as in standard car.
In that case it won't be ECO button, who activates "mod" but external small CAN transmitter (like iGate - with one button - on/off).
What do you think :?:

Now that would be a nice idea

 

[PolishPilot]

...

That's true, that having 15kWh or so in this battery + mod will give a nice range. Now I have range of 60 km (real, as display shows 64-68 after full charge) so it will be about 75 km range with 15kWh

This is a great news. 75 km is what would make each and every of my daily commutes pure EV rides,
but, as I said before, until lease/warranty are on, I will have to pass.

But after that, I will call you the next day.

 

[george]

I started to think about an alternative idea. Let's alter PHEV ecu to accept additional IDs at CAN, and change behaviour according to these IDs. As they won't be factory codes, if the source of commands is silent (or removed from car - let it be plugged into OBD2 port) - there is no way to activate "mod". Everything works and diagnoses as in standard car.
In that case it won't be ECO button, who activates "mod" but external small CAN transmitter (like iGate - with one button - on/off).
What do you think :?:

Do you mean iGate or VGATE? I am not expert in these OBD2 scanners. What is the exact hardware involved?
Personally I just want an EV only mode. So that ECO would be EV only... I am not looking for faster acceleration or longer range, on the other hand I also believe that a slightly more deeper discharge of the battery (even if with less power in that last percents) might improve the cycling of the battery elements "if they are all good" :roll: .
As opinions may vary I suppose that all those options could be switches of the app.

Thank you

 

[vtechtuning]

Vgate. Sorry for "i"gate, Apple virus.

 

[anko]

I started to think about an alternative idea. Let's alter PHEV ecu to accept additional IDs at CAN, and change behaviour according to these IDs. As they won't be factory codes, if the source of commands is silent (or removed from car - let it be plugged into OBD2 port) - there is no way to activate "mod". Everything works and diagnoses as in standard car.
In that case it won't be ECO button, who activates "mod" but external small CAN transmitter (like iGate - with one button - on/off).
What do you think :?:

That is a very nice thought. A couple of things come to mind:

If I am not mistaken, inserting some extra CAN messages would be very simple. A Wifi or BT OBD adapter and a tool like Torque Pro allow you to create a dashboard with buttons that will do it for you. Different buttons could do different things / activate different mods.

Can the effect of the messages be made sticky (until the car is turned off), so you have to send a message only once? Until you choose to turn of the mod. This would require an ON messages as well as an OFF message. I can actually foresee configurable mods. Different contents of the CAN messages would result in different low water marks for the battery. And so on ...

If the effect can be made sticky, could the ECU expose the current status of the MOD( or MODs) (either on demand or via broadcast), so Torque Pro (or whatever tool you would be using) could pick up the actual status and give you visible feedback? For example, I have a dial on my Torque Pro dashboard that display the selected Drive mode (D, N, P, R + B-level).

If it cannot be sticky, how frequently would the CAN message need to be sent in order to keep Mr Hyde awake? And, on the flip side of the coin, how long after you stop sending the CAN message would Dr Jekyll return?

Would it be possible to wake up Dr. Hyde by sending the proper CAN message, even before the A/C gets a chance of starting the engine for heating purposes? Steps that I foresee include:
- plugging in or turning on the OBD adapter
- connecting your phone to the adapter
- starting the proper app on the phone and make it do it's thing
- all before you go from ACC to READY

Would it be possible to still use an OBDII scan tool for 'normal' purposes?

Would it be possible to build a 'device' with little switches that transmits CAN messages without depending on an Android phone?

For those who are worried about flashing and think this is a solution, the ECU would still need flashing to make it sensible to the CAN IDs, right? The improvement would be that you do not need to un-flash when you take the car te the dealer. To me, I would be more worried about detection.

 

[maby]

...

Would it be possible to wake up Dr. Hyde by sending the proper CAN message, even before the A/C gets a chance of starting the engine for heating purposes? Steps that I foresee include:
- plugging in or turning on the OBD adapter
- connecting your phone to the adapter
- starting the proper app on the phone and make it do it's thing
- all before you go from ACC to READY

...

Would it be possible to build a 'device' with little switches that transmits CAN messages without depending on an Android phone?
....

I had tended to assume that the CAN bus is active all the time - otherwise how is the remote control application able to monitor and control the car's systems with the ignition off?

With regard to your second question, there are Atmel AVR microcontrollers with CAN interfaces built in costing just a few pounds, so it is certainly possible. I've been building an automation and monitoring system for our boat and will be including one - the NMEA2000 network installed on most modern boats is a layer sitting on top of CAN.

 

[anko]

I had tended to assume that the CAN bus is active all the time - otherwise how is the remote control application able to monitor and control the car's systems with the ignition off?

This is absolutely true. But not all ECUs are active when the ignition is off. When trying to connect to the car with Torque Pro (or any other tool) the tool will try to send request 7E0 01 00 (from the top of my head) in order to discover which PIDs are supported by the ECU of the ICE. As this ECU is asleep, the scan tool will not continue. I have a little proxy sitting in-between Torque Pro and the OBD adapter that will actually mimic a few critical responses from the engine ECU (when the ECU itself is not responding), so I can connect to the car even with the ignition off. And read my SOC while charging and such.

With regard to your second question, there are Atmel AVR microcontrollers with CAN interfaces built in costing just a few pounds, so it is certainly possible. I've been building an automation and monitoring system for our boat and will be including one - the NMEA2000 network installed on most modern boats is a layer sitting on top of CAN.

Sounds promising ....

 

[maby]

...

With regard to your second question, there are Atmel AVR microcontrollers with CAN interfaces built in costing just a few pounds, so it is certainly possible. I've been building an automation and monitoring system for our boat and will be including one - the NMEA2000 network installed on most modern boats is a layer sitting on top of CAN.

Sounds promising ....

Here you go: http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATMEGA64M1-15AD/?qs=5h0i3Kr%252bAn0F1OqnNkehhg%3d%3d

under 8 euros to you - one off!

Those are a bit fiddly to solder and require some specialist kit for programming. The Arduino Due board is a bit bigger and more expensive, but comes ready assembled, can be programmed via a standard PC and has one CAN bus I/O

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDue

 

[ClasseClas]

So, to confirm:
It is a software rather than hardware based modification?
It enables EV-only running by pressing "ECO"
It bumps the E-motor only power output cap up from 60kW to 70kW.

Sounds good

For PolishPilot: "It looks like VTechTuning has something to do with Poland"

Wow, U R so brilliant Pozdrawiam z Krakowa (for English spoken - this is rare foreign language. "Pozdrawiam" means - "Who the hell" and "z Krakowa" - is to be translated to: "are you?").


At first - sorry for silence. Something strange happen to me, seems to be solved (or goin' to be solved).

Simonrh - yep, it is just PHEV ECU reflash. I tested even 80 kW but it seems not a good idea as the voltage at battery starts to drop, so it surges too much. Also this mod enables additional capacity of battery to be used, so gasoline engine will start at 13% of real capacity of battery ( I do now about 60-65 km on battery, depends on temperature/heating). I have tested also full block of gasoline (never starts) - car has a protection mechanism (factory, hard coded, not mine), that activates below 21% of capacity of battery and reduces max current as:

%_of_70kwh_permitted = 70kwh * (actual_state_of_charge - 13)/8

...so this stops the car (really, just stops it) at 13% of charge, but you can feel power drop arising below 20% of charge. It is clearly visible at power gauge at dashboard.

It looks good. Protects battery from damage, gives you clear signal, that there is no more power. In my mod I can set any % state of charge to be a moment that starts gasoline engine (or even block it) but I have still one issue - if gasoline engine is started, it works until state of charge is a factory minimal (about 30%). So when it starts - it works quite long (of course if mod permits it). If mod does not permit it, you will just be stopped and must press ECO button to switch to normal mode to start gasoline engine - and then it will run until factory minimal state of charge OR until you press ECO again (and block gasoline engine).

Now I upload video that explains switching between ECO MODE (no gasoline engine at all, 70kW power) and NORMAL (standard behaviour).
The only problem I found is that I cannot block start of gasoline engine, when it is cold, because car always starts in NORMAL mode. If I switch off AC panel off, and start car, and switch to ECO MODE, then start AC panel (with any temperature) - it is ok. But if not - gasoline engine will jump on.
I tried to re-configure car to start with ECO MODE as default, but until now I failed. I can re-configure NORMAL mode to be pure EV mode, but it is kinda stupid to switch ECO MODE to permit gasoline engine to run - isn't it?



Sorry for ****** video, but village roads are not good for such acceleration PHEV has. Tommorow evening after work I will try to do same at highway with camera mounted still and speed of 120 kmh or more (version for nerds). PLZ remember, that PHEV cannot go faster than 150-155 kmh/h in pure electric mode with 70kW (I have also checked standard 60 kW, top speed is 140something

BTW - flasher I write will be for Android, with iGate as a flashing device (any - WiFi or Bluetooth). I personally use WiFi one.

Any comments appreciated.

Hi vtech, this is so good!
If you want a second opinion test driver, I am in! As you also live in Stockholm area, you are well aware of the PHEV behavior in low temperature conditions. I hope you will find a solution to this as it is a quite annoying "feature".

I also own a Toyota Auris HSD and I am quite certain that Toyota has licensed a lot of code to Mitsubishi for the PHEV. I have noted the exact cold weather behavior in my Toyota Auris where the ICE always starts. I tried to turn off the ACC - and voila - the ICE stopped immediately as there were enough battery capacity to allow for EV driving.

Now, it is first on the fourth generation of Prius where Toyota has made some changes to the HSD system to avoid ICE turning on at low temperatures even though the battery is full. One of the improvements is:
"In cold weather, a positive temperature coefficient ceramic heater warms the cabin quickly without relying on the engine coolant to come up to operating temperature." (http://priuschat.com/threads/2016-toyota-prius-return-of-the-disrupter-up-to-58-mpg.159647/)

Then - assuming that Toyota licenses code to Mitsu - it just a matter of time before this gets in the PHEV, like in model year 2020 or so? ;-)

Anyway, we could meet if needed in Sthlm area if you are interested.

 

[george]

Just keep air conditioning off, pre-heating, heated seats and one of these :
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/windshield-defroster If it works... it should be much faster than any other method for defrosting. Maybe someone can confirm?

 

[vtechtuning]

Just keep air conditioning off, pre-heating, heated seats and one of these :
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/windshield-defroster If it works... it should be much faster than any other method for defrosting. Maybe someone can confirm?

200W... IMHO it is enough power to lit Christmas lighting, if all LED, but not to defrost.

 

[np99]

200W... IMHO it is enough power to lit Christmas lighting, if all LED, but not to defrost.

and I think the output from the outlet is 120W max.

The preheater works great for defrostring for me. The only problem I had was the windows were fogging up without the heater on (wish we had an option for a heated windscreen in UK). I bought dehumidfier bags from Amazon to solve this.http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00J6GWQ5G?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

 

[vtechtuning]

Yesterday I started to think and I decided to adapt one of our products (external controller) to control driver's load demand (driver's wish) and thus - have a pure EV mode without warranty void. I have it working now.

I upload video with presentation now, but whole idea is as follows:
PHEV ECU controls/calculates two signals (beside many other): throttle position and d_alfa/d_time (first derivative of that position) from pedal position Hall sensors. PHEV ECU has two maps (as throttle is connected to it directly) to understand driver's wish - actual position/speed conversion to demanded torque (current) and speed of change of this position (derivative)/actual position to demanded torque correction. Sum of these two maps gives an actual current set, also if second map shows values higher than treshold (stored in third map, with same axis as second one), it is predicted to start gasoline engine (it is used for detection of faster arise of demand). It is why we feel throttle to be not linear and one time gasoline engine starts with same accelerator pedal level - other time not.

But ok, I have stored all these maps in the box. Now box controls the signals send as a load signals to be as high as it is possible, but always avoid passing below the treshold. As box knows the treshold and whole PHEV ECU routine to calculate final power demand, it can always keep a tiny gap between demand PHEV ECU calculates and the treshold level to activate gasoline engine. All is configured to run at the treshold level only in ECO mode. Derivative (time dependend) influence to demand is removed totally - now any position of accelerator pedal has its own, exactly predictable electric power demand.

- in ECO MODE car runs pure EV up to 130 km/h, then parallel hybrid ("orange arrow")
- for kick down I have forced gasoline engine to start and deliver full power (fast overtaking or so, just for safety). It can be configured to have no kickdown with gasoline engine.
- in NORMAL mode gasoline engine is used
- in ECO MODE accelerator pedal to power conversion is exactly linear now, from 0% pedal = 0kW, 100% pedal = 60 kW. Over that is kickdown.
- save button, charge button work as usual.
- box can be installed and removed in minutes. It uses factory Mitsubishi plugs.

You will understand it better when I finish uploading the video. Please let me know what do you think. This solution can be delivered at once. I will send few "hand made" samples to some of you for additional tests. This box does not give you additional range, but all in all - it gives real pure EV mode without any car modification, reflashing of PHEV ecu or so.

https://youtu.be/XEbRMZo6CgM