False Advertising - Class Action Lawsuit

[craze1234]

I think this is a waste of time and money.
I live in the north of the state of Virginia, USA.
Today we woke up to a temperature of 26 F. (-3 C).
Using the PHEV on spring, summer and fall, ICE is basically not used in this car.
My commute is 16 Miles (~26 KM). The EV button gives priority to EV. I normally use it. Mitsubishi never said the car would run exclusively as an EV.
Today I got 140MPG (~60 km/l), because the ICE worked sometimes to heat up the batteries. This is normal. And besides, what is the problem? This vehicle is a PHEV, not an EV. I've had an EV for over 10 years. It's an Mutsu IMEV (125K miles). My wife and I share both, it depends where we go.
BTW, this is personal, but I'm not here to save the planet, like Greta Tunberg. I just want to save a little money and have a reliable 4WD vehicle.
Think carefully before you actually start it.

Cheers,

Couple things. We live in upstate New York. So our temperatures are colder. Meaning we get to use EV much less. Which makes the car work less as advertised than in your location. Also, doesn't the simple inclusion of a button labeled EV imply it should work as an EV.

Finally, I am interested in the planet and the more junk cars like this that are sold with the promise of being environmentally friendly that aren't, the more quickly we all get to see why everyone should be interested in not using gas and why this is a big deal and not just inconvenient.

 

[craze1234]

Stupid question, but don't you have the EV-mode button? Without it, it seems to expect that you will drive more than a couple of minutes and doesn't just covert all the precious EV range to cabin temperature.

The defrost mode and auto-cruise overrides EV-mode for some reason - probably security related, but other than that it does what it promises on my car.

I'm in Sweden so we have pretty cold winters. The EV range in the winter is half of the advertised range but that's expected and well understood.

Please believe those of us that have this issue that it is real and we aren't idiots. We try all the tricks and methods and they do not work for certain models years in certain countries. It only makes it more frustrating to hear that other people don't have these issues because it makes it more clear that this is a flaw and not a design necessity.

 

[kinetix]

Please believe those of us that have this issue that it is real and we aren't idiots. We try all the tricks and methods and they do not work for certain models years in certain countries. It only makes it more frustrating to hear that other people don't have these issues because it makes it more clear that this is a flaw and not a design necessity.

Seems to be a pretty heavy issue on the Canadian models for sure, and each time I've complained to the dealership about this issue since they blew the programming a couple of years in to my having the vehicle (2018 Canada model here), they just want to hand me leaflets on all the things that could start the ICE now.

As I think has been stated several times, something seriously changed along the way that Mitsubishi did on purpose and they seem to refuse to want to do anything about. It's changed the vehicle drastically in EV mode, which is counter to the vehicle that I test drove and was sold.

 

[craze1234]

Seems to be a pretty heavy issue on the Canadian models for sure, and each time I've complained to the dealership about this issue since they blew the programming a couple of years in to my having the vehicle (2018 Canada model here), they just want to hand me leaflets on all the things that could start the ICE now.

As I think has been stated several times, something seriously changed along the way that Mitsubishi did on purpose and they seem to refuse to want to do anything about. It's changed the vehicle drastically in EV mode, which is counter to the vehicle that I test drove and was sold.

That really is one of the worst aspects. Mine also worked perfectly the first year. No way to see this coming no matter how much research we did. I specifically researched whether this would happen before my purchase and watched people in cold climates driving in EV mode with no problem.

 

[kpetrov]

English, please? I don't have a DBCAM to DBCAM my DBCAM with. No idea what this means.

Simple internet search would have give you an idea what DBCAM is...
outlander phev dbcam - Google Search
if you care
"We often abbreviate this to DBCAM (Drive Battery Capacity Auto Measurement) . The dealer tech may also refer to it as “Battery auto capacity measured” [sic]. This procedure forces the BMS to re-learn the battery SoH"

For BMS and SoH one can refer to some search engines as well.

 

[kpetrov]

I think this is a waste of time and money.
...because the ICE worked sometimes to heat up the batteries. This is normal. And besides, what is the problem? This vehicle is a PHEV, not an EV.

Cheers,

BTW the ICE don't have any physical or electrical connection to the battery and can not heat it up.

 

[BobK]

Stupid question, but don't you have the EV-mode button? Without it, it seems to expect that you will drive more than a couple of minutes and doesn't just covert all the precious EV range to cabin temperature.

The defrost mode and auto-cruise overrides EV-mode for some reason - probably security related, but other than that it does what it promises on my car.

I'm in Sweden so we have pretty cold winters. The EV range in the winter is half of the advertised range but that's expected and well understood.

On my 2023 PHEV, I believe the reason the ICE turns on as soon as I select defrost mode is because the heat pump switches to cooling mode to dehumidify the air. Since the heat pump can't cool and warm at the same time, the car needs to use engine heat to warm the air. This works reasonably well, but I find with a car full of people on a cold wet day it is not enough to fully defog the windows (here in Nova Scotia, Canada).

 

[kinetix]

Simple internet search would have give you an idea what DBCAM is...
outlander phev dbcam - Google Search
if you care
"We often abbreviate this to DBCAM (Drive Battery Capacity Auto Measurement) . The dealer tech may also refer to it as “Battery auto capacity measured” [sic]. This procedure forces the BMS to re-learn the battery SoH"

For BMS and SoH one can refer to some search engines as well.

True, but it can also be very tiring to spend your day trying to translate localspeak. This appears to be a pretty Mitsubishi PHEV-specific term. So when you post and just say things like "Do a DBCAM and reset your BMU", the advice actually means to take your vehicle to the dealer to have very specific actions taken on it. An owner simply can not just "Do a DBCAM". Why give the advice if you're just going to write it in code, when if one knew everything about everything, then they wouldn't be seeking such advice, right?

 

[kinetix]

BTW the ICE don't have any physical or electrical connection to the battery and can not heat it up.

The ICE isn't directly involved, but the drive batteries certainly do have a heater on our version of the vehicle, right?

 

[vancouverboy]

I think this is a waste of time and money.
I live in the north of the state of Virginia, USA.
Today we woke up to a temperature of 26 F. (-3 C).
Using the PHEV on spring, summer and fall, ICE is basically not used in this car.
My commute is 16 Miles (~26 KM). The EV button gives priority to EV. I normally use it. Mitsubishi never said the car would run exclusively as an EV.
Today I got 140MPG (~60 km/l), because the ICE worked sometimes to heat up the batteries. This is normal. And besides, what is the problem? This vehicle is a PHEV, not an EV. I've had an EV for over 10 years. It's an Mutsu IMEV (125K miles). My wife and I share both, it depends where we go.
BTW, this is personal, but I'm not here to save the planet, like Greta Tunberg. I just want to save a little money and have a reliable 4WD vehicle.
Think carefully before you actually start it.

Cheers,

I don't think a class action would get traction.

But for me the problem is that the car worked exactly like I would have expected when I purchased it, and then something changed after a couple of years. I've been told it was a system update that changed it, or that a process (DBCAM) needs to be run on my car that will change it back. But for the past 3 years when I go back to the dealer for service and explain what is happening they just tell me that I'm driving it wrong.

The car is not terrible, but it doesn't work as it was advertised when I bought it.

Today it is 8°C/46°F but the ICE kicks in and keeps running for 3 minutes as soon as I go over about 15k/h (9m/h) even though the battery is full, AC is off, and it was downhill or level ground for most of my journey. Since my commute was only 5 minutes, it was a complete waste of fuel when it would have used almost no electricity at all if it just stayed in EV mode like it used to. I would not expect the car to use the ICE under those circumstances even if EV mode was off.

 

[zerocharge]

I don't think a class action would get traction.

But for me the problem is that the car worked exactly like I would have expected when I purchased it, and then something changed after a couple of years. I've been told it was a system update that changed it, or that a process (DBCAM) needs to be run on my car that will change it back. But for the past 3 years when I go back to the dealer for service and explain what is happening they just tell me that I'm driving it wrong.

The car is not terrible, but it doesn't work as it was advertised when I bought it.

Today it is 8°C/46°F but the ICE kicks in and keeps running for 3 minutes as soon as I go over about 15k/h (9m/h) even though the battery is full, AC is off, and it was downhill or level ground for most of my journey. Since my commute was only 5 minutes, it was a complete waste of fuel when it would have used almost no electricity at all if it just stayed in EV mode like it used to. I would not expect the car to use the ICE under those circumstances even if EV mode was off.

Bro, you need to invest in a bottle of rainmax anti fog.

 

[kpetrov]

True, but it can also be very tiring to spend your day trying to translate localspeak. This appears to be a pretty Mitsubishi PHEV-specific term. So when you post and just say things like "Do a DBCAM and reset your BMU", the advice actually means to take your vehicle to the dealer to have very specific actions taken on it. An owner simply can not just "Do a DBCAM". Why give the advice if you're just going to write it in code, when if one knew everything about everything, then they wouldn't be seeking such advice, right?

I am just giving the advise cause it is confirmed from multiple sources already that it works to some degree. Mine went from starting the engine at plus 5C to -5C.
Whether one does the procedure by himself or drive it to the dealership is up to the owner. I won't give advice like that.

Regarding the battery heater... there is one electrical on previous generation but it will engage in really low sub 0 temperatures like under -25C. The new generation doesn't have any heater at all. (new generation in Canada is 2023 model and over)

 

[kpetrov]

I don't think a class action would get traction.

But for me the problem is that the car worked exactly like I would have expected when I purchased it, and then something changed after a couple of years. I've been told it was a system update that changed it, or that a process (DBCAM) needs to be run on my car that will change it back. But for the past 3 years when I go back to the dealer for service and explain what is happening they just tell me that I'm driving it wrong.

The car is not terrible, but it doesn't work as it was advertised when I bought it.

Today it is 8°C/46°F but the ICE kicks in and keeps running for 3 minutes as soon as I go over about 15k/h (9m/h) even though the battery is full, AC is off, and it was downhill or level ground for most of my journey. Since my commute was only 5 minutes, it was a complete waste of fuel when it would have used almost no electricity at all if it just stayed in EV mode like it used to. I would not expect the car to use the ICE under those circumstances even if EV mode was off.

By my experience and speaking on facebook and here with some folks I also had the impression the problem started after a visit to the dealership but not so sure cause my own experience started with an dealership visit in the beginning of the winter but it was the first winter I owned the vehicle (second hand two years old) so can't be sure at all.

 

[vancouverboy]

By my experience and speaking on facebook and here with some folks I also had the impression the problem started after a visit to the dealership but not so sure cause my own experience started with an dealership visit in the beginning of the winter but it was the first winter I owned the vehicle (second hand two years old) so can't be sure at all.

I'm pretty sure it was an update they did, but I think they applied the update to my car in the spring so I didn't connect the new behavior to the service right away. Once I did notice and notified the dealer they just kept telling me that everything was fine. Wish I had some options to shop around for my maintenance at least.

 

[SilverD]

I don't think a class action would get traction.

But for me the problem is that the car worked exactly like I would have expected when I purchased it, and then something changed after a couple of years. I've been told it was a system update that changed it, or that a process (DBCAM) needs to be run on my car that will change it back. But for the past 3 years when I go back to the dealer for service and explain what is happening they just tell me that I'm driving it wrong.

The car is not terrible, but it doesn't work as it was advertised when I bought it.

Today it is 8°C/46°F but the ICE kicks in and keeps running for 3 minutes as soon as I go over about 15k/h (9m/h) even though the battery is full, AC is off, and it was downhill or level ground for most of my journey. Since my commute was only 5 minutes, it was a complete waste of fuel when it would have used almost no electricity at all if it just stayed in EV mode like it used to. I would not expect the car to use the ICE under those circumstances even if EV mode was off.

I don't have this problem on my 2020 in Australia, but could it be possible that at cold temperatures wind chill is affecting ambient the temperature sensor causing it to operate prematurely. Would a simple wind deflector between the sensor and the grille solve the problem?

 

[LowOnCash]

I am prepared to be shouted down by the fan club but I really feel like I have been sold a bill of goods with this vehicle. It is advertised as a car that can be driven on electric for 20 miles and THEN driven on gas. If you live in a northern climate, this is just not the case. If I lived in Florida, I would love this car. I love it in the summer.

In New York state, this is a gas car for 6 months of the year. It is just now occasionally starting to run on battery in the first five minutes of driving. It starts the engine with no cabin heating turned on (the system off completely), the EV button set before moving and in ECO mode. I know this is a frustration for many because I see it on this forum. This is just not right. I bought this car for the savings through electricity vs. gas and for the environmental benefit. I am greatly disappointed by how much I have unnecessarily polluted with this car and I am very disappointed by how much money I am now wasting from paying for gas vs electricity I generate from solar panels.

I think that enough people have this issue that we should hold Mitsubishi accountable. Am I crazy that all they would need to do if they are really concerned about cold engine starts is wait until the battery is at say 20% and then start the engine? This car can drive on all battery. It has good torque if you need to speed up quickly. Why not wait until you might actually need the engine to start it? But they don't care. Mitsubishi really stinks. Anybody else want to hold them accountable or do we just want to make excuses for them and allow them (and all other companies that sell PHEVs that seem to do the same in the cold) to rip us off?

Sorry for your problems but every lithium battery made looses capacity in frigid temperatures a fully charged battery will lose 25-35 % of its capacity in Winter. For the most part the older Outlander's are really no EV cars like the new models which achieve up to 52 miles in summer and are reduced to around 35-38 in Winter

Stay Safe Mike

 

[mort]

That really is one of the worst aspects. Mine also worked perfectly the first year. No way to see this coming no matter how much research we did. I specifically researched whether this would happen before my purchase and watched people in cold climates driving in EV mode with no problem.

Dude, I can’t express my level of understanding for your frustration.
In our experiance it was not an update, it was related to time. Without updates the problem got worse by 2-5 degrees F with every year.

It is not true of all PHEV’s our Volt never suffered from this.

This is an outlander specific issue!

It was such a shame as without this one problem the vehicle checked all boxes.

Unfortunately after complaining to Mitsubishi to no avail for 4 years.
After being told I’m the one that does not understand the technology, ( I build hybrid and BEV marine Electrical propulsion stystems for a living) I could not stand owning what was reduced to a 30mpg Prius in the winter, we sold the PHEV and moved up to a Lightning.

Could not be more happy.

 

[kpetrov]

Sorry for your problems but every lithium battery made looses capacity in frigid temperatures a fully charged battery will lose 25-35 % of its capacity in Winter. For the most part the older Outlander's are really no EV cars like the new models which achieve up to 52 miles in summer and are reduced to around 35-38 in Winter

Stay Safe Mike

Mike, he is not complaining regarding cold range but engine kicking in without a reason once the temperatures drop to freezing point and bellow.

 

[craze1234]

Mike, he is not complaining regarding cold range but engine kicking in without a reason once the temperatures drop to freezing point and bellow.

Thank you, yes that is the complaint. Even worse though, it isn't below freezing, it is below 50 degrees rendering it, as stated a 30 mpg (or worse) Prius for 5 months of the year in our climate. I've decided not to even plug it in during those months because it really is a waste

 

[rvdlh]

Thank you, yes that is the complaint. Even worse though, it isn't below freezing, it is below 50 degrees rendering it, as stated a 30 mpg (or worse) Prius for 5 months of the year in our climate. I've decided not to even plug it in during those months because it really is a waste

I feel your pain. I was incredibly frustrated with my 2023 Outlander PHEV (bought in January for use in Northern Minnesota). It almost never ran on EV and was essentially a gas car. Going to the dealership essentially had them talking to me like a 6-year-old telling me that I didn't understand how PHEVs work despite my telling them that my other car is a PHEV I've used in the same climate for over 5 years now (my 2018 Honda Clarity is amazing). If you think it's bad in NY, try living in Northern Minnesota!

I too do not see the reason for the ICE to come on when temps are above freezing and the battery is full. I absolutely expect the range to drop significantly in winter, but the whole point of my getting an EV was that my commute to work is only about 5 miles and I expected to drive exclusively on EV except when I went on a longer road trip. That's how it has worked with my Clarity PHEV for the past five years.

It's Mits specific and I assume it's in their algorithms to somehow protect the battery, but I too felt I was sold a bill of goods.

Having said that, I really do love the vehicle when it operates as I would expect during our three monthsof summer.