False Advertising - Class Action Lawsuit

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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This thing burns through gas so fast I certainly have never come close to seeing the old gas message as a reason the engine is starting.

Also, many of the earlier replies said I CAN'T expect that the car would act as an ev in cold temps. That I was quite foolish for not doing my research. How then are we seeing so many messages from other parts of the world where the car does just that. In fact my own car did just that. Again, if you all can explain how something that can and does happen can't be expected to happen, you are a true master of twisting logic.
 
64 degrees F yesterday. Engine started and ran 5 minutes. Got a pure ev. Love it. Anyone want to buy this off me?
 
IslandLife said:
I live in Victoria, BC, Canada... for north american's, we have virtually the same climate and temps as the Pacific North West of the US (Seattle), but with approx a third of the rain. Very mild winters with an average low temp of 7 (44) and temperate summers with an average high of 24 (75). I have a 2018 and for the first approx. 3 years, it was fairly easy to keep it in EV mode throughout the year and during the winter except during cold snaps. During my last scheduled service (just prior to this past winter), that changed. And now, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, it is impossible to keep the engine from starting if the ambient temp is approx 11 (51) degrees or below. Granted it only runs for approx 5 mins and so most of my commutes during the winter were still 80% run on the battery alone... but that was a stark change from my previous winters where most of my commutes were done with 100% EV driving.

They also substantially reduced the amount of regen available at the these same temps and even at warmer temps... I don't seem to be able to get the same amount and the usability drops of more quickly after extended use (driving down mountain passes). I have been driving to and from our local ski hill every weekend during the winter for the past 3 winters and (approx 10 times a summer to visit the bike park), and this winter I noticed a change in the regen abilities.

I am assuming this was done in the name of battery preservation, but it is annoying to see it happen. I have heard of some customers returning to the dealership to have the software reversed. But that probably has a lot to do with your personal relationship with your dealership. I'm on the fence about this though, because if they're doing it to preserve battery life then I'm probably better off in the long run, no?

I also agree with what others have said in that I don't think this class action has legs. If you live in a cold winter climate and expected a PHEV to be able to run as an EV whenever you wanted it to... even for anyone, no matter where they live, to expect a PHEV to do that, would be wishful thinking and any small amount of research would show that to be the case.

It's the same with EV's... none of the EV makers publish any info about range in cold winter weather climates, but basic common sense and knowledge and a little bit of research shows at least an approx 30% drop in range depending on maker and various conditions.

Replying to my own comment because I have an interesting situation. Last week I upgraded to a brand new 2022 (still old style) for a short term lease (6 to 8 months) until my new style 2023 comes in. Bit of a story, but the short version is that my dealership wanted my 2018 so badly (huge demand here) that they set me up with a sweetheart lease on a 2022 GT, gave me an insane amount of trade in value for my 2018 and also put me 10th on the list for the 2023 when they start coming in this fall.

Anyway... right away, one of the biggest differences I noticed moving to a new version of this PHEV was it's ability to stay as an EV. Previously in my 2018, it was impossible to stop it from running the engine for 5 mins if the temp was about 12 degrees C or lower, nothing I could do to get it to stop. Since picking up my new 2022, we've had multiple cold mornings of 3 degrees and the engine hasn't started up once! I'm even able to to set the HVAC to about 22 degrees (auto), any warmer, at these temps and the engine will kick in.

Range was also massively improved. My 2018 was struggling to get 40kms on a good day (which was fine for me), while my 2022 easily gets 50+kms. Got 62 the other day!

Makes me think the software is programmed to operate differently depending on various parameters which probably includes the state and age of your battery? Makes sense really... and probably a prudent battery protection measure. Which again, points to why this "class action" really has no merit.

Anyway, lots of little upgrades and differences between 2018 and 2022.. another very noticeable one was the ride quality... big improvements there. Hope that helps... let me know if anyone has any questions.
 
State of the battery is definitely a factor. Newer the vehicle less complains regarding unnecessary engine starts, it seems.
 
Again so quick to just dismiss merit with a point that seems to confirm the merit. In theory this battery is warranted to work. After just one two years it is already so badly degraded it can't function as intended. Seems like grounds to replace the battery. Still don't see how it is being protected if it is still being used to drive the motor. It seems like the constant drain and fill could degrade it faster.
 
Not dismissing anything, just my observations from what I have been reading all over the web.
Like said, I have been disabling my engine and riding full electric even i -20C (-4F) and my battery is healthier at 44k compared to when I bought it 21k. (second hand vehicle and DBCAM performed).
 
craze1234 said:
Again so quick to just dismiss merit with a point that seems to confirm the merit. In theory this battery is warranted to work. After just one two years it is already so badly degraded it can't function as intended. Seems like grounds to replace the battery. Still don't see how it is being protected if it is still being used to drive the motor. It seems like the constant drain and fill could degrade it faster.

It functions exactly as Mitsubishi intends; it just doesn't function like you want it to.

Plus I'm afraid you don't seem to understand how the car works: the battery is being used most of the time. How do you think it works without "constant drain and fill"? Isn't that what the "EV" part of "PHEV" is meant to do?
 
ThudnBlundr said:
craze1234 said:
Again so quick to just dismiss merit with a point that seems to confirm the merit. In theory this battery is warranted to work. After just one two years it is already so badly degraded it can't function as intended. Seems like grounds to replace the battery. Still don't see how it is being protected if it is still being used to drive the motor. It seems like the constant drain and fill could degrade it faster.

It functions exactly as Mitsubishi intends; it just doesn't function like you want it to.

Plus I'm afraid you don't seem to understand how the car works: the battery is being used most of the time. How do you think it works without "constant drain and fill"? Isn't that what the "EV" part of "PHEV" is meant to do?

Exactly. As another example, when I make a long drive of several hundred km I still get 30% to 40% EV driving with out any recharging. I have a friend with an older Prius and I think he gets about 1km in EV :)
 
Understand exactly how it works. Questioning how the battery is being protected or saved if the battery is constantly being used. Not saying it shouldn't be used but it is not being protected by having the engine start.

Wouldn't the ev part of phev mean that it can be used in ev mode? This forum seems to be full of masters of the self own.

I am certainly actually enjoying the car right now as the weather has warmed up to the point that it is actually working as it should. I've got six months until it gets to 50 degrees and it stops working as it should.
 
Want; expect; hope; thought, believed - perhaps, but not "should", as it works exactly as designed by Mitsu :roll:

I could argue that on launch it "should" have been available in red (like the diesel version) but I would be wrong, as cars are mass produced for a target market not bespoke for individual customers. Whether there is a "fit" between the two is merely a matter of luck. :idea:
 
craze1234 said:
.

I am certainly actually enjoying the car right now as the weather has warmed up to the point that it is actually working as it should. I've got six months until it gets to 50 degrees and it stops working as I think it should.

There, I amended that for you. ;)
 
kpetrov said:
Not dismissing anything, just my observations from what I have been reading all over the web.
Like said, I have been disabling my engine and riding full electric even i -20C (-4F) and my battery is healthier at 44k compared to when I bought it 21k. (second hand vehicle and DBCAM performed).

How do you disable the engine?
 
Has anyone in North America tried using a block heater or dipstick oil heater to keep the ICE from coming on?
 
2018 Canadian model - when I first got the car, it would still do full EV with the EV Mode button (no heater use) with temps below 11'C. Even at minus 1'C it would stay in EV provided that no heater, full battery, and not flooring it past the throttle threshold to turn the ICE on. It was great.

Fast forward to 2023's winter, and this stopped happening. Constant ICE turn-ons even at +12'c with a full battery and no heat.

So i tried the "D-method" to reset the BMU and the battery - boom - back to day 1 behavior. In Kelowna, -12'C right now - EV mode, no ICE at start.

Learn the BMU rest procedure. It needs to be done every 1-2 years on this car to behave like the as-new condition. This is due to Mitsubishi adding a software depletion algo to the BMU to slowly reduce the capacity over duration so that the full charge limit is no longer reach, and allows them to maintain their 10 year warranty "commitment".. and of course you can go back to the stealership and pay for them to undo the condition that was built-in, but that is like supporting abuse!
 
Seriously!? :roll: :lol:

The reason they add what you call a "software depletion algo to the BMU" is that the capacity of the battery degrades over time, so their software needs to reflect that. This is so that they're not trying to draw more energy out of a battery than it can deliver. By resetting the BMU, all you're doing is fooling the BMU into thinking the battery is capable of delivering 38/40Ah, thereby forcing the battery to deliver more energy than it should. This damages the battery much faster than if you'd left it alone - the BMU will eventually learn that the battery is incapable of delivering 38/40Ah, but by then the damage will have been done. Doing it repeatedly as you suggest would leave you with a useless, fried battery after a few years. :roll:
 
Sorry your post is not accurate. Watch the videos from "Unplugged EV" on youtube for reference (or search this forum for the various reset methods)

unplugged EVhas a lot of information on the pre-programmed artificial (timed!) reduction of the battery capacity that is present from the factory. If you use the PHEV watchdog app you can even measure it.

In Canada the BMU reset procedure can be done yourself (as described in one of the various "methods") or you can also pay Mitsubishi $200 to do it. If you pay a dealership to do it, the cell smoothing process checks each cell for it's min/max voltage and capacity and then adjusts the battery pack to it's actual capable size. It does not override a false capacity.

The capacity will artificially degrade due to intentional programming in the BMU. The reset takes it back to a state to undo the artificial loss, but and the subsequent cell smoothing will bring the battery to back to it's actual capacity within a couple cycles.
 
And how much range will this procedure recover every 2 years? Our 8-year-old car went in to the dealer as the range was low. At 98k miles, the BMU was showing 65.6%. After a full overnight DBCAM it was still less than 70%. So after 8 years untouched, the BMU was out by around 0.5% a year - hardly a significant amount and a cumulative error of around ½ mile. On your 2-yearly cycle, it would recover around 1% of range (or a few hundred metres) - that's insignificant. It's far better that it overestimates degradation as that's failsafe - underestimate it and the battery would obviously suffer.

I've now been told I'm getting a replacement battery :D
 
yvrPHEV said:
Sorry your post is not accurate. Watch the videos from "Unplugged EV" on youtube for reference (or search this forum for the various reset methods)

unplugged EVhas a lot of information on the pre-programmed artificial (timed!) reduction of the battery capacity that is present from the factory. If you use the PHEV watchdog app you can even measure it.

In Canada the BMU reset procedure can be done yourself (as described in one of the various "methods") or you can also pay Mitsubishi $200 to do it. If you pay a dealership to do it, the cell smoothing process checks each cell for it's min/max voltage and capacity and then adjusts the battery pack to it's actual capable size. It does not override a false capacity.

The capacity will artificially degrade due to intentional programming in the BMU. The reset takes it back to a state to undo the artificial loss, but and the subsequent cell smoothing will bring the battery to back to it's actual capacity within a couple cycles.
Unplugged EVhas a lot of information but he sold the car after the reset he did.
The reset should be done properly and the battery BMU should learn the real battery health not just to be reset like it's new.
Like ThudnBlundr said, it is very bad for the battery if only a rest was done.
 
I don't know about a class action lawsuit, but if anyone had told me my 2018 would get <10 miles on a full charge, with ICE running a minimum of 5 min every trip in the dead of winter even in EV mode, I probably wouldn't have bought it. I knew it would be less efficient due to heater etc but i had no idea until after purchasing that it would literally be 50% or less than advertised range due to combination of 5yr battery wear (30Kmi) and cold temps. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

I'll have to wait til we finally surpass 50degF to see how things fare in warmer months.
 
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