Engine doesn't start when ev range reaches 0

[littlebigcj]

I’m actually wondering if a reset was performed on the battery, and therefore the car thinks it has a higher capacity than it actually does, and this may be why it’s letting it drop to a lower level before starting the engine.

I just checked the side of the battery and it looks like it was built in February 2013, so there’s no way it will still be holding 97%.

 

[Stevepl11]

Thanks for answering. Fuel shouldn't be any problem I think because otherwise it should also not work properly in charge mode. As I mentioned earlier the spark plugs are just a week old. It was a little trip to the workshop where I changed the plugs. Before changing the plugs the car acted accordingly as I mentioned earlier. Right after we changed the plugs the car functioned properly, with zero electric range. A couple of hours later on another trip te car had the same issues again. I also don't think that the 12v battery is an issue because that should also generate problems with the initial start of the engine. Save modus I did not try yet.

No the 12volt battery is not involved with engine starting, There is no starter motor, the Motor/Generator is driven as a motor from the Drive Battery to start the ICE. If the Drive Battery is dead then it won't start, It should never get to that point as there is supposed to be about 25% held in reserve for Hybrid operation when the EV range reaches zero. I find that when my engine starts I feel it slightly lose power. so the current from the battery being diverted to starting the engine is causing a loss of drive. If your Drive Battery is really run down that jolt you mentioned and non starting is likely.

I'd be more focused on the battery capacity and what the actual full charge range is, maybe a DBCAM and reset of the BMU could be useful. My 2018 (NZ) model had a DBCAM recently and range improved by about 20% so the guessometer really is just guessing about some stuff, maybe the reserve capacity is one of those things. PHEV watchdog might give you some indication of what the capacity is when the problem occurs.

There is one thing that really surprised me a couple of times, I have an OBDII Bluetooth adapter so I can use the PHEV Watchdog on my phone. I used to leave it plugged in all the time. However, a few times I have had several warnings come on like EV system servicing required and similar warnings about braking etc. These have occurred while driving but only while the OBDII adapter was plugged in. Stopping and restarting seemed to solve that, but I don't leave the adapter plugged in anymore. Similar warnings have been seen when the 12 volt battery was running down due to sitting around powered on with the radio on maybe with auto headlights on as well sitting in the shade, not too sure, may have been in accessory mode which should shut off after 30 minutes so maybe the battery was suspect.

I had a very weird issue with the 12volt battery. I went to plug in one night about 4 hours after getting home on a normal day, but the car was dead. Nothing worked and it stayed locked. I used the key to open it and opened the bonnet, checked battery voltage on the charging lug in the fuse box, about 2 volts. No idea why this happend or even how it could. Unless powered off it can't be locked, if inside light is on it will shut down sometime, that was not on anyway. I could not charge because both smart chargers refused to start. I should have used a portable jump starter but it was in the boot so difficult to reach, (now kept in glove box). In the end I used a 12v battery and jumper cables that I thought I would never need again. So it powers up and I plug in and all seems right with it. On a whim I opened the boot and checcked around the battery in case there was a loose connection or suchlike. The battery was hot and so was the ground cable, so there was some serious current charging it, that DC-DC converter is capable of 1.8kw apparently. I shut down immediately and removed the battery. I was at least able to charge it nomally after but my 25 amp charger was working hard. I put the spare battery in temporarily although it doesn't really fit, and eventually put in a solar power system sealed battery that was half the price of the genuine item even though it was rated about the same. I had to use different cables but I had those anyway.

Lastly, there is a 30Amp fuse listed as IOD (Ignition Off Draw) in the main fuse box. It runs everything that needs to stay alive after shut down, WiFi server, Remote key receiver etc. and memory for aged fuel and range estimates apparently. Pulling that fuse has the same effect as disconnecting the battery ground and resets a few things. Useful when the fuel is older than three months and thar car says "Using Old Fuel" and won't go into parallel hybrid mode. Can't hurt to do that now and then.

 

[nrayanov]

Yeah, 97% on a car produced in 2013, no way... even if the battery was replaced recently, the first 10% fell off for about 20,000 km.

I would suggest to get a proper DBCAM at a garage with MUT.

If the issue persists, you may also try to look at other things like the 12V battery, fuel pump, etc.

 

[Stevepl11]

That's my assumption because as I explained when stationary and battery reaches zero range, achieved by having the ac on and car stationary, the engine does turn on but doesn't run properly and goes immediately of again. After that it turns immediately on again and of again and so on.

That sounds like a drive battery issue, or management issue. The ICE is started by the motor/generator being driven from the drive battery. If it is basically run right down, then it will fail to crank the engine sufficiently and then give up as the voltage is too low. then as it recovers the system will try again, and again as you say. This is typical of all batteries. In an ICE car, a dead battery often results in the starter solenoid just clicking for the same reason.

Given the system works by choosing "Charge" mode when the range has not dropped to nothing this seems plausible. There should be sufficient reserve capacity to function as a hybrid including the engine start.

 

[kpetrov]

I’m actually wondering if a reset was performed on the battery, and therefore the car thinks it has a higher capacity than it actually does, and this may be why it’s letting it drop to a lower level before starting the engine.

I just checked the side of the battery and it looks like it was built in February 2013, so there’s no way it will still be holding 97%.

Improper reset was definitely done on your vehicle.
I suggest to not fully charge - discharge it until you do and proper reset followed by DBCAM.
Don't let the battery to drop lower than 1/4 use Save or Charge before that point.

 

[user 5187]

In my case problem was stupid battery reset from youtube. After whole procedure with MUT (it took 12h) everything went back to normal. Normal charge/discharge wasn't helping.

 

[littlebigcj]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I’ve got it booked in for a DBCAM check so hopefully I’ll find out soon what’s going on. Cheers

 

[edanto]

Might be worth messaging whoever posted that YouTube video to tell them about the problems you’ve run into; maybe they’d update/remove the video?

 

[falkas]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I’ve got it booked in for a DBCAM check so hopefully I’ll find out soon what’s going on. Cheers

Hello, i would like to ask, have you managed to do DBCAN, BCU reset, and how the cars' battery is woring now? After it fully discharge, gasoline engine will start automatically? Thank you

 

[M shuhibar]

Hello,

A few years now we own a outlander phev 2013 intense.
Since 3 weeks ago we are having problems with the car. When the battery reaches 0 range, sometimes the engine won't start automatically, only when we push the acceleration pedal completely down the engine will start with a lot of rpm. No fault codes where saved, and only one time the car showed a turtle in orange with the message speed limited.
Also when the car is stationary and the battery reaches zero miles range the engine will start but goes also immediately off and on again. This will continue endlessly.
When we drive in charge mode there are no problems, the engine runs normal, and also of course when completely charged there are also no problems.
Last week I have checked and changed the spark plugs but this made no difference.
Next week a mechanic is going to check everything but doesn't have a clue what this could be.
It looks like the car knows there is no range left and the signal is given to the engine but somehow the engine won't start correctly or fast enough.
Is anyone familiar with this problem?
Kind regards.

Hi did you find solution for your problem I have the same problem now and don’t know what to do.

 

[Marka]

Hi, I used to have the same problem. The reason, I believe, was BMU reset. Car "thinks" it have new drive battery, and behave like with new.
I try to charge it in various ways ( empty to full, half to full etc.) And after some time problem disappeared.