Compulsory traction battery servicing?

[phevnz21]

Hi, I am in NZ. We had a 2018 PHEV and my then ex partner had the car and they made her get one for the “Battery Warranty”. It was Simon Lucas in Newmarket. I didn’t say much at the time as we were separated however after looking into it, I found that no other countries did it.

We have a very robust consumer guarantee act here in NZ and unless this procedure is specifically listed on the Battery Warranty documents and the scheduled servicing documents then they will not be able to enforce it. A quick call to consumer affairs will clarify that.

I believe this is nothing more than the dealers trying it on and making extra money from EV type vehicles as in general people don't understand the technology and they play on the fear around battery degradation to their advantage which is quite disgusting and if it is not in the Warranty Document then mbie would have something to say about it too.

All the battery info can be gained from the MUT3 scan tool. I know because I have one. The only thing they would carry out would be to check connections in the pack, check for any ingress of water or derbies etc but that's about it. They would have to replace the seal and also as the Air Con goes through the battery this would need to be de-gassed and re-gassed also.

I would definitely demand that they provide you with the battery warranty document and the scheduled servicing document from "Mitsubishi" and not some document that they themselves have made up and I would scan through that and find out where it calls for this procedure. I suspect that it is not in there. I would then contact them and ask them to explain where and why are they telling you this is required.

Also like our vehicle, this was not pointed out to us at the time of purchase and again I would think that under the consumer guarantees act that a significant service like this would need to be disclosed up front. Again I'm sure mbie would have something to say about this.

Hope this helps

Thank you: most enlightening.

 

[phevnz21]

Hi, I am in NZ. We had a 2018 PHEV and my then ex partner had the car and they made her get one for the “Battery Warranty”. It was Simon Lucas in Newmarket. I didn’t say much at the time as we were separated however after looking into it, I found that no other countries did it.

We have a very robust consumer guarantee act here in NZ and unless this procedure is specifically listed on the Battery Warranty documents and the scheduled servicing documents then they will not be able to enforce it. A quick call to consumer affairs will clarify that.

I believe this is nothing more than the dealers trying it on and making extra money from EV type vehicles as in general people don't understand the technology and they play on the fear around battery degradation to their advantage which is quite disgusting and if it is not in the Warranty Document then mbie would have something to say about it too.

All the battery info can be gained from the MUT3 scan tool. I know because I have one. The only thing they would carry out would be to check connections in the pack, check for any ingress of water or derbies etc but that's about it. They would have to replace the seal and also as the Air Con goes through the battery this would need to be de-gassed and re-gassed also.

I would definitely demand that they provide you with the battery warranty document and the scheduled servicing document from "Mitsubishi" and not some document that they themselves have made up and I would scan through that and find out where it calls for this procedure. I suspect that it is not in there. I would then contact them and ask them to explain where and why are they telling you this is required.

Also like our vehicle, this was not pointed out to us at the time of purchase and again I would think that under the consumer guarantees act that a significant service like this would need to be disclosed up front. Again I'm sure mbie would have something to say about this.

Hope this helps

Thank you very much for this detail. So, the smell I thought I smelt was genuine. And yes, a new term cannot be implied into a contract (like into the guarantee part of a sales contract) after the contract has been entered into, though this certainly wouldn't be the first time a car dealer has tried that on. Every time I've bought a new car (happily not often), except with Honda in 2002, I've had to strike out parts of the proffered sales contract. But 'official action' most probably won't stop individual dealers scamming unsophisticated individual customers and we don't now have good consumer protection publicity in the NZ media; really the only appropriate communication available is through this good medium. Let's hope many M. PHEV purchasers get to read this discussion to avoid themselves being scammed.

 

[crun]

On its 2-year service the dealer told me that next time I'd have to pay some hundreds of dollars for the battery to be taken out and serviced - with no real explanation. So, I've not been to see him since; can change the oil myself, thanks very much.

Mine also had the battery removed and a battery seal replacement early in my ownership, perhaps around that mileage. (so probably 2016/17)
I was wondering at the time if it was a rort they would try to pull annually, but it was a one off.
I haven't been unhappy with the servicing (sometimes Wairau , usually Manukau)

-----
Aside from that, I do advise anyone buying any kind of EV to printout and date every bit of sales / warrantee / spec bumpf they can find, (and also ask the dealer leading questions by email or by text that invite them to over promise). Simon Lucas and Mitsi themselves have made a range of loose assertions/statements, which would probably leave them well on the hook for premature battery issues - but only if you have them all printed out and dated. ( https://www.freetsa.org/ timestamps and signs webpages to a pdf that they can't really dispute later)

To be clear: I have had no problem with mine, no problem with the dealer and no problem with the servicing. The battery is pretty knackered now at >180k, but that is what I expected.

 

[yardbird]

That dealer in NZ must be smoking something bad! Never heard of servicing EV battery after a few years of use. No such maintenance is required in USA unless something went bad.

 

[phevnz21]

Thanks for that advice. I think his corporate bosses were more to blame. The dealer himself seemed to feel guilty and apologetic when he warned me what was in store for my next service appointment. (But he would have taken the money anyway). Seems there is still a whiff of the morality of the old Irish horse traders in our present-day motor trade, and quite a few NZ dealer principals have Irish surnames, as did this one. Mind you, I had an Irish great-grandmother .... (and when I worked in the USA I was offered a job selling secondhand cars). My experience in the world of business was that the further you look up the ladder, the worse their morals are likely to be. As mentioned, Honda NZ was an exception when I bought from them. I suspect you have more comprehensive consumer protection in America.

 

[PHEV07]

I live in Canada where we a North American Outlander PHEV was allowed 2018.

I had the vehicle till Sep 2021 when I traded for a 2022.

In 2020, 24 months after getting g my car the Dealer was required to do a Battery Balancing and it cost me close to $600.00Cnd

I did notice the SOC increase but only to 90%.

Before the rebalancing the SOC had dropped to around 60% SOC

I did not keep the 2022 long enough to see that big a drop in Battery range since I traded for a 2024.

Now with the Watchdog not working on the 2023 and newer, I have no way to check the Battery SOC u till I take the car in for Servicing.

Sure hope the reported Battery degradation is not as bad and not reduced by the number of charges like it had happened with the 2018

 

[phevnz21]

I live in Canada where we a North American Outlander PHEV was allowed 2018.

I had the vehicle till Sep 2021 when I traded for a 2022.

In 2020, 24 months after getting g my car the Dealer was required to do a Battery Balancing and it cost me close to $600.00Cnd

I did notice the SOC increase but only to 90%.

Before the rebalancing the SOC had dropped to around 60% SOC

I did not keep the 2022 long enough to see that big a drop in Battery range since I traded for a 2024.

Now with the Watchdog not working on the 2023 and newer, I have no way to check the Battery SOC u till I take the car in for Servicing.

Sure hope the reported Battery degradation is not as bad and not reduced by the number of charges like it had happened with the 2018

So, if I understand correctly, after 2 years your battery's effective capacity had dropped from 100% to 60%, (not due to any fault on your part) when your dealer charged you 600$ Cnd to fix the problem - i.e. repair it to 90%. But if you'd had a non-PHEV Outlander and its fuel economy had somehow dropped by 40% (e.g. changed from 30 mpg to 18 mpg), the fault would have been repaired under warranty? How do Mitsubishi and the dealer claim that the same fault in a PHEV is not eligible for repair under warranty?

 

[yardbird]

So, if I understand correctly, after 2 years your battery's effective capacity had dropped from 100% to 60%, (not due to any fault on your part) when your dealer charged you 600$ Cnd to fix the problem - i.e. repair it to 90%. But if you'd had a non-PHEV Outlander and its fuel economy had somehow dropped by 40% (e.g. changed from 30 mpg to 18 mpg), the fault would have been repaired under warranty? How do Mitsubishi and the dealer claim that the same fault in a PHEV is not eligible for repair under warranty?

For some reasons. The N American PHEV have far worse degradation in the batteries than those of European models. Don't ask me why and the manual has also implied no warranty on the degradation of batteries. After more than 7 years and at 92K miles, my EV miles are around 12 miles versus 22 when it was new (55%), Go figure. My next PHEV will not be Mitsubishi for sure, may be Lexus or Toyota.

 

[PHEV07]

So, if I understand correctly, after 2 years your battery's effective capacity had dropped from 100% to 60%, (not due to any fault on your part) when your dealer charged you 600$ Cnd to fix the problem - i.e. repair it to 90%. But if you'd had a non-PHEV Outlander and its fuel economy had somehow dropped by 40% (e.g. changed from 30 mpg to 18 mpg), the fault would have been repaired under warranty? How do Mitsubishi and the dealer claim that the same fault in a PHEV is not eligible for repair under warranty?

Unfortunately, no.

This is in part why I replaced it for a 2022, but found the ICE was kicking in too often when not needed to and I was not able to force it into EV Mode

So I upgraded to a 2024.

With this Model I can now force it into EV Mode when I want to with tge ICE not kicking in, except when I regen on B3 or Highef with a Drive Battery at 55% or higher. I just need mindfully not to Regen past B2 from BO when batterh is move than half full.

 

[DougF]

So, if I understand correctly, after 2 years your battery's effective capacity had dropped from 100% to 60%, (not due to any fault on your part) when your dealer charged you 600$ Cnd to fix the problem - i.e. repair it to 90%. But if you'd had a non-PHEV Outlander and its fuel economy had somehow dropped by 40% (e.g. changed from 30 mpg to 18 mpg), the fault would have been repaired under warranty? How do Mitsubishi and the dealer claim that the same fault in a PHEV is not eligible for repair under warranty?

I live in Canada where we a North American Outlander PHEV was allowed 2018.

I had the vehicle till Sep 2021 when I traded for a 2022.

In 2020, 24 months after getting g my car the Dealer was required to do a Battery Balancing and it cost me close to $600.00Cnd

I did notice the SOC increase but only to 90%.

Before the rebalancing the SOC had dropped to around 60% SOC

I did not keep the 2022 long enough to see that big a drop in Battery range since I traded for a 2024.

Now with the Watchdog not working on the 2023 and newer, I have no way to check the Battery SOC u till I take the car in for Servicing.

Sure hope the reported Battery degradation is not as bad and not reduced by the number of charges like it had happened with the 2018

I notice that the battery balancing doesn't seem to be a listed item in the Canadian maintenance schedule at https://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/owners/maintenance-service/service-schedules. I suppose that someone could refuse to pay for the balancing but would then have to live with the reduced EV range. Unfortunately the warranty doesn't guarantee a specific State of Health of the traction battery. Possibly Mitsubishi Canada would only replace the traction battery under warranty if it would not start the vehicle (cold-soaked battery not covered).

 

[yardbird]

I notice that the battery balancing doesn't seem to be a listed item in the Canadian maintenance schedule at https://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/owners/maintenance-service/service-schedules. I suppose that someone could refuse to pay for the balancing but would then have to live with the reduced EV range. Unfortunately the warranty doesn't guarantee a specific State of Health of the traction battery. Possibly Mitsubishi Canada would only replace the traction battery under warranty if it would not start the vehicle (cold-soaked battery not covered).

Mitsubishi learned the hard lessons in Europe concerning the degradation of its batteries so when they launched in N America in 2018, they were smart to not warranty the degradation of the batteries.