Charge Mode/Button

[SSJ3]

I would say that is because that enables you to use EV in fuel-inefficient driving situations.

BINGO!
It saves me fuel by doing all those step uphill’s in pure EV, even when there is no traffic, then getting up with ICE reveling @ +3000rpm and if catch a lorry you cannot imagine the pain that is listening to the ICE screaming all the way, it’s like knifes stabbing your heart! :x :x :x :x
Only when terrain gets more plain and speed up to 80km/h I’ll get back to SAVE since then I can travel in Parallel mode with ICE working @1800-2000rpm.

 

[Grigou]

As an abstract, I would say that the good strategy is to push Charge button in all the situations where the engine is near it's sweet spot (for example in parallel mode between 65 and 120 km/h), and to stay in EV mode in situations where the engine could be too far from it's sweet spot (town, congestion).

I must admit that I don't understand how some facts can contradict these 2 principles :?:

 

[anko]

Thanks all for your feedback but numbers don't lie and that facts are, after 2 weeks for driving my daily commute, if don't use charge on downhill’s and on some few slow queues (downhill as well) along with SAVE on Motorways (100Km/h or plus) i spend more 3 to 4L once i arrive home.

My daily commute is made of 45Km with several uphill’s and downhills (10 i would say) with more the 10% inclination on a couple of them and I've been trying all possible combinations (1- Let the car manage the battery by himself 2- Use CHARGE only on Motorways 3- Use SAVE only on Motorways 4- Use Charge on downhill’s and queues and SAVE on Motorway) and I've being get better fuel consumption's, from 9-10L to 6-7 now, which along the 1,5-2L that i get on my way to work it makes me more happy then before (4-6L way in and 9-10L returning back).

It would be interesting to know, which of the three variants give you these results. As you didn't make that clear.

Two questions:
- Do you charge externally? Both ways?
- Is there a significant height difference between your work location and your home location?

Based on what you wrote I would expect there is not so much a height difference and you charge only home. Correct?

I would say that is because that enables you to use EV in fuel-inefficient driving situations.

BINGO!

Not really. Coasting (or even regenning) down hill happens to be an extremely fuel-inefficient driving situation as you don't need any power for driving, yet you burn fuel. So BINGO would require you to drive downhill in EV mode

As an abstract, I would say that the good strategy is to push Charge button in all the situations where the engine is near it's sweet spot (for example in parallel mode between 65 and 120 km/h), and to stay in EV mode in situations where the engine could be too far from it's sweet spot (town, congestion).

Tht is an interesting thought, but once the engine is operating in the sweetspot, charging will no longer take place . I would rephrase it by saying it is a good strategy to push Charge whenever it can help the engine to reach the sweetspot.

The sweet spot is not only defined by engine speed but also by engine load. If we ignore engine speed for a moment (as we have little control over that), for the engine to operate in the sweetspot requires roughly 75% load. The car itself tries to achieve this 75% load by adding a "power demand for charging" to the "power demand for driving". But if the combined power demand is insufficient the engine will operate below the sweet spot. Reasons for this can be for example (a combination of):

- Battery will not accept any power as it is full
- Battery will not accept any power as it is already receiving power from regenning
- You are driving very slow
- You are driving downhill

Under such conditions it is very hard to reach the sweetspot so IMHO it would be best (from efficiency respective) not to use the engine under these conditions, if it can be avoided.

- Edit: Grigou, reading your comment again, I think this may be exactly what you had in mind. Sorry for that.

you cannot imagine the pain that is listening to the ICE screaming all the way, it’s like knifes stabbing your heart! :x :x :x :x

Oh, we can. But this is about comfort, not fuel economy

 

[greendwarf]

Hi, just in case and since i don't have enough battery to return home i use charge on downhills (along with regen) or when stopped for large (5m or more) periods of time, this gives me extra % to drive some Kms on queues when road in plain or uphills.

I hope you enjoy breathing in the pollutants when stopped with the engine running - rather defeats the whole purpose of the car

 

[jaapv]

I would say that is because that enables you to use EV in fuel-inefficient driving situations.

BINGO!
It saves me fuel by doing all those step uphill’s in pure EV, even when there is no traffic, then getting up with ICE reveling @ +3000rpm and if catch a lorry you cannot imagine the pain that is listening to the ICE screaming all the way, it’s like knifes stabbing your heart! :x :x :x :x
Only when terrain gets more plain and speed up to 80km/h I’ll get back to SAVE since then I can travel in Parallel mode with ICE working @1800-2000rpm.

Well, by fuel-ineffecient driving situations I do mean sitting in queues and similar. Charging a standing car is highly inefficient. Watch the distance prediction meters: The expected total range drops about four times as fast as the EV-only range rises.

As for " screaming ICE" , I suppose you have never changed down on your previous car to climb a hill or overtake? Or used kickdown on an automatic? Some people do indeed have a problem in switching to the different relationship between engine revs and car deployment.

With a conventional mechanical gear box, be it auto or manual, there is a direct relationship between road speed, gear selected and engine sound. And our perception has adapted to that characteristic for over a century.

On the PHEV up to 125 km/h the relationship is between power demand and engine sound. That is unexpected to our brain, thus obtrusive. It takes quite a while for a human brain to become adapted to a new experience and accept it as "normal" -an that time varies individually. From that time onward the brain will filter the noise the same way like it used to do in your previous automotive life.

 

[emm3t]

This is so true. When I first drove my Outlander and it switched to parallel or serial mode, it was very distracting. I expected the sound I heard of the engine (which is very quiet by the way) to be directly related to my speed and/or acceleration.

As an experiement, I turned up the music to drown out any noise and this "discomfort" regarding the discordance between accelleration and engine noise went away. The car drove "correctly" relative to where the accellerator pedal was positioned.

So - it's all in the mind...

 

[gwatpe]

There are times where the driver would like to put a bit of reserve energy back into the battery, but the CHARGE mode is left ON for longer than was intended.

I am looking at a mod to my sticky SAVE/CHARGE button cct that will give say a set 15 minutes of CHARGE mode and then revert back to whatever mode was previously set. I may use the ECO button to select the mode. This won't be a sticky, but will just give the 15min of CHARGE mode, before reverting back to the power ON setting. If I use the ECO button, there will be a visual cue on the dash.

Whenever the ECO button is pressed, then a reserve of battery power will be stored to use say in EV mode later. I will look at making the time user selectable.

 

[jaapv]

It would be of limited use I guess. It would enable you to run from 40% up to 60% "Save" automatically I guess. It is basically just as simple to let the car run up to 80% and go into "save" at that level, which is exactly what happens when one leaves the charge button engaged.

 

[gwatpe]

It would be of limited use I guess. It would enable you to run from 40% up to 60% "Save" automatically I guess. It is basically just as simple to let the car run up to 80% and go into "save" at that level, which is exactly what happens when one leaves the charge button engaged.

My PHEV will charge all the way up to 100%, and I have seen poorer fuel economy when I have accidentally left the ICE running and the battery has filled to all bars full. My AUS shipped PHEV even fills the battery up to 15bars in CHARGE mode in the garage last time I tested. 15bars is not even close to 80%, but closer to 96%.

I don't use the charge button to bring the battery level more than half full on the battery gauge now.

Having a single press button that gives an automated predictable increase of battery stored capacity that then reverts back to say SAVE mode will be a useful mode for my driving styles that involve longer highway distances interspersed with town driving in preferential EV mode. Occasionally I may forget to re-engage SAVE mode after a town and it is equally possible I will forget to revert back to SAVE mode from CHARGE mode after putting some energy back into the battery for the next town.

Even after close to 2 years of PHEV ownership and more than 75,000km in 3 x PHEV's, I am still working on ways to improve the petrol economy for the longer highway trips. The local driving on EV is a no brainer as I have the electricity cost as low as possible already, so little gain there.

I can't get an EU shipped PHEV to compare with, but maybe because my PHEV is one of the first shipped to AUS, that there is a difference in the programming that I have found a work around that suits me. Not likely for the firmware to be updated, so no point in waiting for a maybe from MMC.