can you force no drive-battery charging while driving?

[Woodman411]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered before, I couldn't find it in my brief search. I'm probably going to get the 2019 model once it's available in the USA, until then, been looking through this forum. My question is, can you force no charging of the drive-battery while driving? I ask because I like to charge the drive-battery only once every two days to minimize battery degradation over time (the idea is to control the number of charge cycles). In-between charges at home, if the drive-battery runs out, I just want to use the ICE and nothing charging the drive-battery, including the regen braking. Can you please tell me if this is possible?

 

[HHL]

First of all, it will never charge the drive battery fully using the charge or save mode. If you just drive it with a depleted battery, and not use the charge or save mode, the battery will stay at around 30% capacity.

Secondly, I think you worry too much....

Time is also a factor in battery degradation and there is nothing you can do about it. I am sure the battery will last a few thousand cycles with acceptable capacity retention.

 

[Phevy]

Thirdly, the car cannot drive directly on the ICE with speeds below 64 km/h.
The car is meant to use the battery. It's an integral part of the drive line.
Just enjoy the ease of electric drive

 

[anko]

I kinda agree with the other comments. Keep in mind: when you drive the car as a non hybrid, it will just be a very heavy petrol car. But worse. Economy will go down the drain.

Further more, the ICE is not strong enough to do all the driving. When accelerating or climbing a hill it will have to be supported by the E-motors and thus take battery power. This means that, if no recharging is going on, the battery will eventually really deplete and die.

If you insist, there are two things you can try:

- Stay above 130 km/h.
- Keep your petrol supply below 5 liters.

I think both will disable the hysteresis cycle. The first will for sure.

 

[greendwarf]

I kinda agree with the other comments. Keep in mind: when you drive the car as a non hybrid, it will just be a very heavy petrol car. But worse. Economy will go down the drain.

Further more, the ICE is not strong enough to do all the driving. When accelerating or climbing a hill it will have to be supported by the E-motors and thus take battery power. This means that, if no recharging is going on, the battery will eventually really deplete and die.

If you insist, there are two things you can try:

- Stay above 130 km/h.
- Keep your petrol supply below 5 liters.

I think both will disable the hysteresis cycle. The first will for sure.

And only ever use the handbrake to slow down :lol:

 

[Steeeeve]

And only ever use the handbrake to slow down :lol:

But based on the recall don't expect the car to slow down

 

[Woodman411]

Thank you everyone for your comments, I understand better how this works. I know the existing 2.0 ICE is woefully underpowered, at least where I live, where the average freeway cruising speed is 75 mph/121 kph with hills. Really hoping Mitsubishi will bring over the 2.4 ICE for the 2019 model.

 

[jaapv]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

 

[Woodman411]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

I'm sorry, I took it too far. I meant trash panda power Autobahn, 150 kph, hills, "no lack of power at all"... Anyone like to back that up? My BMW X1 sdrive28i struggles at 130 kph on hills, and that's signficantly lighter than the Outlander phev. Lack of power is almost universal with online reviews:

https://www.wheels.ca/car-reviews/review-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev "sluggish performance"
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/flash-drive-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-plug-in-hybrid-review-article-1.3785887 "What’s the crux of the issue? Lackluster performance... highway passing and uphill slogs easily overtasked the drivetrain – and that's with only a pair of people aboard"
http://www.hybridcars.com/2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-first-drive-review "ask the vehicle to pass, surge up a hill, or merge with highway traffic, and suddenly you find yourself searching for the afterburner button"
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-test-review "isn't quick by any means"

Outlander phev has many strengths, but got the impression power isn't one of them.

 

[anko]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

I do agree with Jaapv. But I was talking about the power of just the ICE, where Jaapv is talking about the whole package.

The ICE by itself provides sufficient power to maintain high speed (up to Vmax). But to get to high speed (or maintain high speed while climbing) the ICE needs frequent support from the battery. So, my point is, if the battery is never recharged (when demand is low) during driving it will eventually deplete.

Note: Although the end result is pretty much the same, "120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE" is not going to happen. The max is either 120 kW from the electric motors in serial mode (60 kW sourced from the battery and 60 kW sourced from the ICE / generator) or 149 kW of combined power in parallel mode (89 sourced from the ICE + 60 kW sourced from the battery).

 

[Woodman411]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

I do agree with Jaapv. But I was talking about the power of just the ICE, where Jaapv is talking about the whole package.

The ICE by itself provides sufficient power to maintain high speed (up to Vmax). But to get to high speed (or maintain high speed while climbing) the ICE needs frequent support from the battery. So, my point is, if the battery is never recharged (when demand is low) during driving it will eventually deplete.

Note: Although the end result is pretty much the same, "120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE" is not going to happen. The max is either 120 kW from the electric motors in serial mode (60 kW sourced from the battery and 60 kW sourced from the ICE / generator) or 149 kW of combined power in parallel mode (89 sourced from the ICE + 60 kW sourced from the battery).

Interesting that two viewpoints from Netherlands saying power is sufficient, whereas US media says it is not. So I did a comparison between the EU version (I looked at the UK site) to the US version and found these differences:

HP @ 4,500 rpm: UK version: 121 | US version: 117
lb-ft torque @ 4,500 rpm: UK version: 140 | US version: 137
curb weight in lbs: UK version: 4,100 | US version: 4,178

Basically, the US version is heavier and has less power. The differences are trivial, maybe related to emissions equipment, but it doesn't help the US version any.

 

[HHL]

The torque available from the petrol engine at 4500rpm is pretty much irrelevant, as the electric motors provide most of the torque when travelling in parallel mode at highway speeds and hard acceleration is required. The petrol motor is locked to the front wheels with a gear ratio similar to 4th or 5th in a normal car and will rarely reach over 4000rpm.

 

[rangersac]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

I'm sorry, I took it too far. I meant trash panda power Autobahn, 150 kph, hills, "no lack of power at all"... Anyone like to back that up? My BMW X1 sdrive28i struggles at 130 kph on hills, and that's signficantly lighter than the Outlander phev. Lack of power is almost universal with online reviews:

https://www.wheels.ca/car-reviews/review-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev "sluggish performance"
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/flash-drive-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-plug-in-hybrid-review-article-1.3785887 "What’s the crux of the issue? Lackluster performance... highway passing and uphill slogs easily overtasked the drivetrain – and that's with only a pair of people aboard"
http://www.hybridcars.com/2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-first-drive-review "ask the vehicle to pass, surge up a hill, or merge with highway traffic, and suddenly you find yourself searching for the afterburner button"
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-test-review "isn't quick by any means"

Outlander phev has many strengths, but got the impression power isn't one of them.

Interesting also that all those reviews criticize the handling, whereas the European/ Australian reviews generally do not. Makes me wonder if there has been some less than stellar suspension tuning done for the US/ Canada market. I have a 14/15 model, and whilst the handling isn't pin sharp, it's as good if not better than any other SUV I've driven of a similar vintage.

Power is a subjective thing, a very quick google shows US reviews where they think it's adequate. e.g.:
Clean Technica
Edmunds

My take on it is if you are expecting V8, or turbo charged diesel V6 performance then you'll be underwhelmed, but if that's your expectation then the PHEV isn't really the car for you. As far as I'm concerned it's adequate, yep you have to boot the right foot if you want to overtake at hwy speeds, but it picks up and goes once you do so. I've certainly never been in a situation where I felt undergassed, even overtaking whilst heading up 10% grades at hwy speeds.

 

[Woodman411]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

I'm sorry, I took it too far. I meant trash panda power Autobahn, 150 kph, hills, "no lack of power at all"... Anyone like to back that up? My BMW X1 sdrive28i struggles at 130 kph on hills, and that's signficantly lighter than the Outlander phev. Lack of power is almost universal with online reviews:

https://www.wheels.ca/car-reviews/review-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev "sluggish performance"
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/flash-drive-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-plug-in-hybrid-review-article-1.3785887 "What’s the crux of the issue? Lackluster performance... highway passing and uphill slogs easily overtasked the drivetrain – and that's with only a pair of people aboard"
http://www.hybridcars.com/2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-first-drive-review "ask the vehicle to pass, surge up a hill, or merge with highway traffic, and suddenly you find yourself searching for the afterburner button"
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-test-review "isn't quick by any means"

Outlander phev has many strengths, but got the impression power isn't one of them.

Interesting also that all those reviews criticize the handling, whereas the European/ Australian reviews generally do not. Makes me wonder if there has been some less than stellar suspension tuning done for the US/ Canada market. I have a 14/15 model, and whilst the handling isn't pin sharp, it's as good if not better than any other SUV I've driven of a similar vintage.

Power is a subjective thing, a very quick google shows US reviews where they think it's adequate. e.g.:
Clean Technica
Edmunds

My take on it is if you are expecting V8, or turbo charged diesel V6 performance then you'll be underwhelmed, but if that's your expectation then the PHEV isn't really the car for you. As far as I'm concerned it's adequate, yep you have to boot the right foot if you want to overtake at hwy speeds, but it picks up and goes once you do so. I've certainly never been in a situation where I felt undergassed, even overtaking whilst heading up 10% grades at hwy speeds.

The cleantechnica review stated they got 35mpg on petrol power, besting the epa rating by a massive 40% (depending on where one lives, it's not easy matching the epa rating, generally viewed as generous) - this is indicative of a driving environment very favorable for mileage, perhaps a mix of flat and downhill roads - not realistic where I live. The Edmunds link is more of a brief vehicle description than a real-world review. Anyway, the fact that Mitsubishi will be replacing the 2.0 with a larger 2.4 ICE shows that they too feel it could use more power, after all, they could have stuck with a 2.0 atkinson, but they opted for more displacement + atkinson.

 

[rangersac]

The cleantechnica review stated they got 35mpg on petrol power, besting the epa rating by a massive 40% (depending on where one lives, it's not easy matching the epa rating, generally viewed as generous) - this is indicative of a driving environment very favorable for mileage, perhaps a mix of flat and downhill roads - not realistic where I live. The Edmunds link is more of a brief vehicle description than a real-world review. Anyway, the fact that Mitsubishi will be replacing the 2.0 with a larger 2.4 ICE shows that they too feel it could use more power, after all, they could have stuck with a 2.0 atkinson, but they opted for more displacement + atkinson.

In all honesty, if you can't do the majority of your driving in EV mode then I see little point in getting a Outlander PHEV so I think that would be your first consideration. Otherwise you end up with a very expensive, heavy petrol car, although for it's size it's actually pretty fuel efficient. For example I've done long 400km long road trips at hwy speeds (110kph in Australia) and averaged around 35mpg.

As for the power, well given you find your BMW struggles in high speed situations despite 228hp and a 0-60 time of 6.4s, then I think it's pretty certain that you'll feel the PHEV Outlander, with 160-197hp and a 0-60 time of 9.0s, is underpowered.

 

[anko]

curb weight in lbs: UK version: 4,100 | US version: 4,178

Not that I think it matters that much, but do the US and the UK use the same definition of curb weight?

 

[anko]

As for the power, well given you find your BMW struggles in high speed situations despite 228hp and a 0-60 time of 6.4s, then I think it's pretty certain that you'll feel the PHEV Outlander, with 160-197hp and a 0-60 time of 9.0s, is underpowered.

Especially when you want to drive it as a non hybrid

 

[user 1877]

Anyway, the fact that Mitsubishi will be replacing the 2.0 with a larger 2.4 ICE shows that they too feel it could use more power, after all, they could have stuck with a 2.0 atkinson, but they opted for more displacement + atkinson.

The current 2.0 litre ICE is an “Otto” cycle whereas the 2019 2.4 ICE is “Atkinson” cycle. Size for size, Atkinson engines are intrinsically less powerful but more fuel efficient than Otto cycle engines. So the increase in engine size does not necessarily imply that Mitsubishi feel it could use more power.

 

[jaapv]

Woefully underpowered? I drive regularly on the German Autobahn, plenty of hills and my average speed is about 150 kph. No lack of power at all. Just keep the charge button down, 120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE will keep you going nicely.

I do agree with Jaapv. But I was talking about the power of just the ICE, where Jaapv is talking about the whole package.

The ICE by itself provides sufficient power to maintain high speed (up to Vmax). But to get to high speed (or maintain high speed while climbing) the ICE needs frequent support from the battery. So, my point is, if the battery is never recharged (when demand is low) during driving it will eventually deplete.

Note: Although the end result is pretty much the same, "120 kW from the electric motors and another 30 from the ICE" is not going to happen. The max is either 120 kW from the electric motors in serial mode (60 kW sourced from the battery and 60 kW sourced from the ICE / generator) or 149 kW of combined power in parallel mode (89 sourced from the ICE + 60 kW sourced from the battery).

OK, not 150 kW but 149

It is one of the nice things of this car to see somebody in a medium-powered Audi push you from behind and then shrink in the mirror when you hit the accelerator -all the way up to 170 kph. I repectfully submit that some body from the USA hasn't got the first idea about fast Autobahn driving with the blanket speed limits they have over there.
Let it be clear that the PHEV is not the 250 kph Autobahn cruiser that gets into its own in the south of Germany, but in the regular 150 kph average through the hills, it is pretty nifty if operated properly. hit Charge and it will keep the battery sufficiently charged in the bits where you don't use full power.
In over 100.000 km I only saw a reduced power warning once, and that was with a skibox on, fully loaded and a strong head wind up a loooong Autobahn incline @ 160.

The reason Mitsubishi put in larger ICE is because the upgraded the rear electric mootr and used a slightly larger battery.

You cannot compare ICE power between an PHEV and a conventional car. For one thing torque -and that is what matters for acceleration- is deployed completely differently. Secondly the full power of a conventional car is only needed occasionally, not all the time. On such occasions a PHEV uses electrical power to provide the oomph.

 

[STS134]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered before, I couldn't find it in my brief search. I'm probably going to get the 2019 model once it's available in the USA, until then, been looking through this forum. My question is, can you force no charging of the drive-battery while driving? I ask because I like to charge the drive-battery only once every two days to minimize battery degradation over time (the idea is to control the number of charge cycles). In-between charges at home, if the drive-battery runs out, I just want to use the ICE and nothing charging the drive-battery, including the regen braking. Can you please tell me if this is possible?

Why would you want to? Just put the car into Save mode at around 40-60% SoC and keep it in Save mode. Not charging the battery at all, and discharging it to run the AC compressors, lights, and other things in the car, is actually worse for the battery than just keeping it in a narrow range, which is what Save mode does. Why? Because there's this thing called depth of discharge. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries If you look at Table 2, you'll see that a 10% DoD causes the batteries to last about 25 times longer than a 100% DoD. Except when you put it in Save mode, the DoD is way below 10%, it's more like 2-5%.

Not all cycles are equal. Two discharges of 50% DoD and recharging back up 50% DoD count as one cycle, but a single 100% DoD cycle is much harder on the battery. Discharging 25% and recharging 25% 4 times is much easier on the battery than doing a 50% DoD and recharge twice. Etc.

What I do is I simply use Save mode on the freeway, and Normal mode or EV mode around town. It's not an efficient use of battery power to cruise on the freeway, as in addition to causing a very high DoD, it also drains the battery at a rather high C rate http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/what_is_the_c_rate which is also hard on the it. Driving at a continuous 65-75 mph consumes about 20-30 kW, which is quite a bit of sustained power draw for a small 12 kWh battery. It also generates a lot of heat (and although we do have a battery cooling system, it's still hard on the battery to discharge it so much so quickly). Meanwhile, the ICE is reasonably efficient at sustained cruise. That's why I got a PHEV. Let the ICE do what it does best (freeway driving), and let the battery do what it does best (around town driving). If I use Save mode on the freeway, on most days I am only doing about 25-30% DoD before I can charge back up again. If I did not use Save mode on the freeway, I'd be at around 70%+ DoD.