Buying a PHEV, is it worth it?

[MetalMickey]

Hi All, I am new to this forum so I thought i'd take the time to say hello to everyone and of course I am thinking of buying a less than 12 month old '4' model, I have driven one, drove very well, just wondered if anybody has ever regretted buying their one. I currently drive a Toyota Rav 4 which I find a bit small. Are the economy figures as stated, 34 miles on battery power only seems very low and that of course is without any electric's on, heater, lights etc........I live in the UK. Mike.

 

[geoffshep69]

Hi All, I am new to this forum so I thought i'd take the time to say hello to everyone and of course I am thinking of buying a less than 12 month old '4' model, I have driven one, drove very well, just wondered if anybody has ever regretted buying their one. I currently drive a Toyota Rav 4 which I find a bit small. Are the economy figures as stated, 34 miles on battery power only seems very low and that of course is without any electric's on, heater, lights etc........I live in the UK. Mike.

Plenty of info on this forum, and if you have time to read through you will get a good view of what its like.

In short though, I'd say that generally the vast majority of the people are very happy with the car, but the answer to 'is it worth it' comes down to your personal situation and how you will use the car.

The range of 34 miles is highly optimistic, and in the real world you will very rarely, if ever, achieve that. Something like 25 miles is more realistic in summer, dropping to 15-20 miles in the winter.

Once the battery is depleted, you are essentially driving a large, 2 litre petrol SUV which will return c. 35mpg in real world circumstances.Therefore, the car is best suited to those who can do most of their motoring on battery, rather than petrol.

My commute to work is 13 miles each way, or 26 miles per day. I can do that all on electric power in summer, and a good chunk of it in winter. With a full charge costing around £1 - £1.50 depending on your tariff, that means my weekly commute of 130 miles is costing me between £5 and £7.50, or slightly more than the cost of 1 gallon of petrol.

I've done about 15000 miles in mine, and my lifetime mpg is about 110mpg on pure petrol. When you factor in the cost of charging, and assume I'd spent that on petrol instead, I'm sitting at around 75 mpg.

If you are going to be doing 40000 miles a year, driving up and down motorways at high speeds, then you need to think carefully whether the PHEV is better than a diesel, as the majority of your miles will not be on electric. The efficiency of the car is also highly sensitive to your right foot. Drive it hard and you'll quickly see a drop in the economy figures and battery range, so if you want to accelerate hard, and sit at 85mph on the motorway you wont get the figures I mentioned. You don't have to drive like an old lady though, just drive it reasonably, cruise at 70-75 and you should get the figures I quoted.

You also need to consider your ability to charge, i.e. do you have a drive or garage for convenient charging at home, is there a charger at work you can use, can you get a grant to get a dedicated charging point installed ?

Are you a company car driver ? If so, and you pay benefit in kind tax, then because this is based on CO2 emmissions you will find that the PHEV is an attractive option. My overall leasing cost, including the BIK, is about £100 per month lower than I would pay for an equivalent diesel SUV.

I'm sure others will give you more thoughts, but that's my initial views.

 

[Sumpy]

Hi Mike, and welcome to the forum. Geoff pretty much sums up the Outlander PHEV and what it is like to own.
I have no regrets of buying my car, which I bought a year ago second hand from Mitsubishi.
My "guess-o-meter" gave me a range of 29 miles on the last charge, but only went for 26 actual miles before the ICE kicked in, which I am more than happy with, and I don't drive with a queue of cars behind me .

 

[greendwarf]

And if you come into London it is exempt from the Congestion Charge (£10 annual fee) and you can park in Westminster at nominal rates e.g. £0.81 for 4 hours.

 

[MetalMickey]

Hi All and many thanks for the warm welcome and advise given.
Most of my trips are under 15 miles including the return journey and the current diesel Rav I have will block up the filters in the exhaust, it's only a matter of time so yes it seems a PHEV would be good for what I need a car for. The all but new ones at the local Mitsubishi garage have a traditional lever type handbrake by the drivers seat (Right hand drive) but the demonstrator I took out had a new handbrake set up with an electronic handbrake which did look a neat little 'jobbie' and if only for looks alone looked very nice on the eye. Does anybody have experience or know anything about these type of handbrakes, do they work well, are they troublesome or any knowledge about them would be welcome. It would mean I would have to wait a few months for one of these ex. Mitsubishi owned cars to hit the showrooms but this will be my final car in life, i'm all but a pensioner, so I don't want to dive in head first and buy a lever type handbrake model if the neat looking electronic type is what I would prefer and happy to wait just a few months, comments PLEASE! Thanks Mike. :lol:

 

[HHL]

Don't let the handbrake stop you from buying it

 

[Cobb]

Hi Mike

I have recently bought a low mileage 4H demonstrator that was 7 months old. It has the electric handbrake, which also has an auto hold and is really easy to use - much easier than a traditional handbrake. I do not know about reliability yet. Other advantages of this 2017 model is it has an EV priority switch which should make it easier to avoid the petrol engine starting when you don’t want it to – unless of course you have used up all of the battery. Another addition in this model year is a blind spot warning and rear cross traffic alert. There may well be other features too, but you would have to check the specs.
If you decide to go for a 2017 model , you can still have zero road tax on any that were registered before 1st April this year – this will save you £140 a year. Also, of course, earlier models before this have zero road tax. Be wary of any 4HS ‘s or 5”s registered from that date since they will have an annual road tax of £450 for the first 4 or 5 years. I guess that this could also apply to some 4H models if they had factory options taking them over the original £40000 retail price threshold. Having looked around for sometime there seem to be a fair number of 2017 4H’s available now. I expect you may have to pay £28000 to £30000 for low mileage ones – but I don’t know if that’s in your price bracket.

I have only just joined this forum after following it for the last year. It is excellent and you certainly will find it useful to trawl through to find out all the ins and outs of this car. I have.

My early experience of this car is that driving carefully you can get 25 – 30 miles on the battery – even in early Autumn. On a return journey of around 100 miles each way I recently achieved 43mpg with half a battery charge and 49mpg on return with a full battery charge - nearly all motorway travelling at 60 -65 mph – with occasional bursts to 70 for overtaking. These figures are based on the car computer and don't take account of electricity (probably around 5p a mile). I top up at home and have used hardly any petrol at all locally. After nearly a month I still have not had to fill the tank again yet and expect to get a full to full of 60 -80mpg depending where I drive in the next few weeks.

Good luck with your search

 

[user 1877]

Hi Mike,

I concur with Cobb about the electric handbrake. It works fine and the auto hold function is brilliant in stop start traffic. No more sitting with your foot on the brake pedal and it releases immediately without a jerk as soon as you touch the accelerator to move off.

From your previous comments, it seems you the clean look of the electric park brake appeals. In that case you might want to look at the Juro spec models. They have a different audio/infotainment system from all other models. To my eye much cleaner lines than MMCS and by all accounts better functionality so long as you are happy to use Apple Car Play or the Android equivalent on your mobile phone.

Juro is a bit cheaper than 4h but you do miss out on some other features. It depends what is important to you. Mitsubishi’s website has a good feature for comparing model specs side by side. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Daff]

I wouldn't worry about the handbrake. I test drove the 2017 w/switch handbrake and ended up buying a 2016 w/lever handbrake. It's fine.

The significant change on the 2017 is the EV button. That's what you should base your decision on, IMO

-- Steve

 

[MetalMickey]

I wouldn't worry about the handbrake. I test drove the 2017 w/switch handbrake and ended up buying a 2016 w/lever handbrake. It's fine.

The significant change on the 2017 is the EV button. That's what you should base your decision on, IMO

-- Steve

Hi Steve and All.
Please excuse this question and don't forget I haven't actually bought a PHEV yet (If I do) and I know this may sound a stupid think to ask but what is the EV button please? I am cringing as I am typing this, haha! Mike

 

[maby]

I wouldn't worry about the handbrake. I test drove the 2017 w/switch handbrake and ended up buying a 2016 w/lever handbrake. It's fine.

The significant change on the 2017 is the EV button. That's what you should base your decision on, IMO

-- Steve

Hi Steve and All.
Please excuse this question and don't forget I haven't actually bought a PHEV yet (If I do) and I know this may sound a stupid think to ask but what is the EV button please? I am cringing as I am typing this, haha! Mike

The first generations of PHEV had a tendency to start the petrol engine rather sooner than was strictly necessary - to provide additional power and to drive the heater. This annoyed quite a lot of owners and Mitsubishi have now added the "EV" button which supposedly raises the thresholds at which the petrol engine is started while there is still charge in the battery. It's not clear that it completely eliminates petrol running with charge left, but it certainly reduces it.

In answer to your original question, I would suggest that few people actually save money by owning a PHEV - it is an expensive car for its specification and most owners would be hard pressed to recoup the price difference between a PHEV and a budget end petrol car in terms of reduced running costs. If your choice is between a PHEV and a pure petrol or diesel 4WD SUV of similar size and your usage pattern is primarily short journeys - less than forty or fifty miles - then you may save money, but even then it will take several years to break even. A SEAT Ateca is a similar car in most respects, but costs close to £10,000 less than the PHEV in a comparable specification level. £10,000 buys a lot of petrol and, even if you get your electricity completely free, it will take quite a few years to recoup that price difference.

If your alternative would be a relatively small and low specification saloon or estate, then there is no question of saving money buying a PHEV - you can find perfectly serviceable cars at £20,000 less or better and you will never recoup that.

 

[Daff]

Agree with all that, except to say the Ateca is a lot smaller and not a direct replacement. But yes, you need reasons other than economic ones to choose this car (unless on a company car tax dodge etc, which I am not).

Steve

 

[maby]

Agree with all that, except to say the Ateca is a lot smaller and not a direct replacement. But yes, you need reasons other than economic ones to choose this car (unless on a company car tax dodge etc, which I am not).

Steve

The Ateca is about a foot shorter than the PHEV and a couple of inches wider. I was parked next to one a few weeks ago and the differences are not great - other than the price!

 

[Daff]

A foot is a lot of legroom/luggage space. We found the boot was a less useful shape. On paper it looks comparable (as measured in litres) but it's the shape - short on length. The Outlander was just about as practical as the Outback we considered in terms of accomodation and luggage.

-- Steve

 

[AndyInOz]

I personally think that the extra money is worth it for all the ooooooooohs and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahs that are generated whenever you drive your friends around.

I was on the market for an electric only vehicle, but just couldn't find one that was practical for me and my lifestyle (bicycles, kayak, my size etc.).

My commuting is all electric, and country runs to rivers lakes etc. are covered by the same vehicle.

But woooing around the city in silent mode really impresses my mates.

 

[maby]

I personally think that the extra money is worth it for all the ooooooooohs and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahs that are generated whenever you drive your friends around.
.....

The only comment I've ever received was from my father-in-law who, after several weeks of travelling around with us, remarked "Doesn't this car have a starter motor?"

 

[Kesto]

1. It is worth buying . Unless yours is a touring job is all the time on motorway
2. There is no starter motor. I asked the dealer when I bought it. Some complex mechanism.
3. It is hybrid , people expect it drive more on EV , but its not EV. I acheive 95 to 96 % on EV. Good enough for me. I do 28 miles / day. Even if I drop to 84% EV I am happy.

 

[MetalMickey]

Hi everyone, you have all helped me so much and I thank you all for your comments. One thought crossed my mind, basically because I am 99% going to buy one, has anyone had to replace the big battery cells on their PHEV, not the starter battery as such......I assume it has one but the cells that power the car for say 30 miles, or does anyone know the cost of replacing them..........do they say get replaced one at a time as they wear out or is it expected to replace them all in on go, how long do they last. Anyone who can tell me as much as they know about the big power cells/batteries would be greatly appreciated. Anyone I have spoken to hasn't had to replace them but they must have a life span of 'X' amount of years, does anyone know what this life span is please, thanks so much. Mike.

 

[maby]

Hi everyone, you have all helped me so much and I thank you all for your comments. One thought crossed my mind, basically because I am 99% going to buy one, has anyone had to replace the big battery cells on their PHEV, not the starter battery as such......I assume it has one but the cells that power the car for say 30 miles, or does anyone know the cost of replacing them..........do they say get replaced one at a time as they wear out or is it expected to replace them all in on go, how long do they last. Anyone who can tell me as much as they know about the big power cells/batteries would be greatly appreciated. Anyone I have spoken to hasn't had to replace them but they must have a life span of 'X' amount of years, does anyone know what this life span is please, thanks so much. Mike.

There isn't a "starter battery" in the sense that there is in a conventional car. There is the high voltage traction battery - your "big battery cells" and a small 12v battery which provides the power to boot up the systems and serves as a buffer to stabilise the low voltage supply for the lighting and other car systems. This low voltage supply is derived from the high voltage bus via a step-down circuit.

The high voltage traction battery is a lithium pack - it provides the drive to the traction motors and is recharged from a high voltage generator that is directly coupled to the petrol engine. This generator is also used to start the petrol engine - if your traction battery goes flat, then the petrol engine cannot be started and it is not possible to jump start the car from a conventional car. The only way to get it going again would be to connect it to a 240v AC power supply to get some charge back into it.

In common with other EVs including the Prius, Mitsubish significantly derate the battery pack in order to increase its life expectancy. In normal operation, it is run between about 20% and 80% charge. This gives plenty of spare capacity and Mitsubishi anticipate that it will remain within the quoted capacity for up to 10 years, possibly more. The Outlander PHEV has not been on the market long enough to test this - nobody here has reported actual battery failure although some, such as anko, are reporting that their battery has begun to degrade noticeably.