Brake discs

[STS134]

Welcome back to forum, STS.
With Trex and Anko out, I am missing all the technical jargon here in forum.

What happened to Trex and Anko?

I do agree with you that we only get half of power in EV mode, however, we are getting almost all the torque right out of bat ( from standing still to around 30mph, I think)

Well, the other issue is say you're driving along at 35 mph and a light turns yellow, or someone decides to be a jerk and tries to prevent you from merging onto an onramp or offramp, and you need maximum power. You're now putting full load onto a cold ICE. So before I bought this car, I was a fan of the series-parallel architecture, but now, I think this only makes sense on HEVs (since HEVs always warm up their ICE when you start driving). For a PHEV, it's better to have a series architecture only, such that the motors and batteries can give you max power without the ICE assisting, for the reasons I just mentioned.

Welcome back to forum, STS.
Back to the OP (I think the disc for that kind of money is too expensive!): it should be fairly easy for Mitsubishi to limit the 80% or even 50% state of charge for folks who lives in the top of a hill. Besides the safety, it also can be used to preserves the battery in the storage voltage. With the Watchdog reading voltage from batt during the charging and an intelligent outlet, we should able to do that.

Tai

I use Chargepoint EVSEs most of the time, including at home. Chargepoint Home allows you to set time limits on charges. It also tells you the charge rate, in watts, as well as the total energy consumed in a charge session, in kWh. What I did was I drained the battery all the way to 25%, then charged it up to 100%, and looked at the total kWh consumed. I then divided this amount by 16, the number of bars on the battery gauge. That gives me the number of kWh per bar. When I get home, I count the number of bars required to be added to reach 12 out of 16, which is where I usually charge it to, multiply by the kWh per bar, and then divide by the charge rate at my location, given the voltage levels to my EVSE and the current the car draws (in my case, this is exactly 3.43 kW). That gives me my charge time in hours. I then multiply by 60 to get minutes, and set the EVSE to charge for exactly that number of minutes. At work, I can do the same thing, except there it charges at 3.05 kW instead of 3.43 kW. And I have to hit the STOP button in the app manually because it cannot be pre-set to charge for a specific amount of time.

Sometimes, the car reduces current during charging though, for about 5-20 minutes (cell balancing procedure). If I notice it has done this, I'll have to extend the charge session slightly to make up for it.

If the OP does this, this should reduce brake wear dramatically. But really, Mitsubishi needs to fix this on their end. Customers shouldn't have to calculate charge time every single time they plug in.

 

[jaapv]

For a PHEV, it's better to have a series architecture only, such that the motors and batteries can give you max power without the ICE assisting, for the reasons I just mentioned.

How are you going to get full power without the generator running when the batteries are only capable of delivering half ?

 

[STS134]

How are you going to get full power without the generator running when the batteries are only capable of delivering half ?

Obviously you will need batteries that are capable of delivering the full amount of power unassisted by a generator. It's really kind of ridiculous. I was just driving from work to Costco one time and making an unprotected left turn onto another street. As I was turning, I saw a truck I thought was coming up faster than I had anticipated and I pressed the accelerator harder than normal so I didn't block traffic. Then, within half a second of doing this I realized I had enough space and backed off. Didn't matter. Since the instantaneous power demands exceeded 60 kW, even if it was for 1/4-1/2 second, the ICE started and of course once it starts, it has to run for 3-5 minutes for emissions control reasons. And it adds to the fuel dilution in the oil too. Absolutely dumb design.

 

[jaapv]

So you would have a generator that would not contribute its power to the acceleration, double the battery weight (+300 kg) a heavier generator/ICE unit to deliver the heavier charge needed (+150 kg) and extra fuel because of the decreased economy (+50 kg) slowing the car down by 500 kg. Now that would really be a dumb design. And all that because the driver made a dumb mistake...

 

[STS134]

So you would have a generator that would not contribute its power to the acceleration, double the battery weight (+300 kg) a heavier generator/ICE unit to deliver the heavier charge needed (+150 kg) and extra fuel because of the decreased economy (+50 kg) slowing the car down by 500 kg. Now that would really be a dumb design. And all that because the driver made a dumb mistake...

Well that's just one incident. On another, I was making a left turn at a traffic light. There was no traffic ahead of me, but the turn light was green. I was probably ~3 seconds from the intersection and the light turned yellow and I had to punch it. Yep, ICE start, all for ~2 seconds of power. That wasn't a "mistake", although in this case, I was getting onto the freeway anyway in about 2 miles and so I wasn't as annoyed that the ICE had started. In any case, stop blaming the user for the deficiencies of the product. Sometimes, stuff happens, and unless they can predict the future and know when to warm the ICE, they should design the car so that the ICE doesn't start if you have to punch the accelerator.

I'm really wondering if anyone's actually keeping track of the number of accidents that occur because people are trying to keep their PHEVs in EV mode and don't floor it when they really should. Even a 0.5 second delay can mean the difference between being in an accident and being able to power away from it. Trying to keep the car in a certain mode should honestly NOT play into a driver's decision about whether or not to use full power. When I drive a pure ICE car, or a HEV, or even a BEV, I really don't care. If I think I need full power, I will apply full power without reservations. With the PHEV, I try to think about keeping the darn thing in EV mode and it's distracting. Whatever percentage of my brain is dedicated to that task isn't dedicated to driving safely. And before you make any comments about how flooring it could cause an accident, I would point out that I've been in cars that were rear-ended after stopping at traffic lights more than once. Sometimes, the safest thing to do is to get through the signal ASAP, and I shouldn't have to choose between possibly getting rear-ended, barely making it through without ICE start, OR destroying my ICE by putting load on it when it's cold but making it through easily.

 

[jaapv]

You miss the point. The kicking-in of the ICE gives you additional power that you would not have otherwise. If you wanted the car to be able to use the full 120 kW on battery power alone you would make it slower than it could be; In that case it would be better to fit two 120 kW motors to make use of the additional generating power and you would be back to the same objection.
In your scenario drivers of slower cars would be permanently involved in accidents by not being able to get away quick enough.
In real life people adapt their driving to the capabilities of their cars. Usually one gets rear-ended by driving in a way that makes it unclear that one intends to stop, like driving for an orange traffic light in a manner that implies that one plans to run it and then screaming to a stop nonetheless.

 

[mellobob]

Why are people so concerned about the ICE coming on when needed? After all this is a hybrid, not an EV. Perhaps they thought they were getting an EV? Sheesh, let's get on with enjoying life.

 

[Steel188]

mellobob, my thought exactly! Who cares? And if you do, why did you buy the car in the first place?

 

[Phevy]

What happened to Trex and Anko?

Anko sold his PHEV, but Trex just went dark after 20 May...

 

[greendwarf]

[On another, I was making a left turn at a traffic light. There was no traffic ahead of me, but the turn light was green. I was probably ~3 seconds from the intersection and the light turned yellow and I had to punch it. Yep, ICE start, all for ~2 seconds of power.

If understand you correctly, you accelerated when you saw the traffic light change to yellow - which is illegal in the UK. Hardly Mitsu's fault for not designing a car to encourage drivers to break the law. :lol:

 

[STS134]

If understand you correctly, you accelerated when you saw the traffic light change to yellow - which is illegal in the UK. Hardly Mitsu's fault for not designing a car to encourage drivers to break the law. :lol:

It's not illegal in California, as long as your front wheels pass the limit line before it turns red. In any case, it's far better than slamming on the brakes and getting rear ended. Note that there was nobody in front of me at the time. Technically, I was actually on the brakes as I was passing the limit line and making the turn. But I had to speed up momentarily on the straight section to reduce the chances that my front wheels did not make it past the limit line in time.

 

[yardbird88]

It seems like some of you needs new brake pads at 30k or 60k. So it is good to know that I should periodically check the brake when rotating tires. My 2012 Lexus CT200h is still on original brake pads at 80K miles but then Toyota has a different design than Outlander PHEV.

 

[jaapv]

If understand you correctly, you accelerated when you saw the traffic light change to yellow - which is illegal in the UK. Hardly Mitsu's fault for not designing a car to encourage drivers to break the law. :lol:

It's not illegal in California, as long as your front wheels pass the limit line before it turns red. In any case, it's far better than slamming on the brakes and getting rear ended. Note that there was nobody in front of me at the time. Technically, I was actually on the brakes as I was passing the limit line and making the turn. But I had to speed up momentarily on the straight section to reduce the chances that my front wheels did not make it past the limit line in time.

I once met a driver like that. She took the front bumper of my Jag @ 16000 Euro, flipped her Dodge van, hanging upside down in the belt for 20 minutes until liberated by the ambulance crew and fire brigade and caused 15 km traffic jam in the process. :roll:
Traffic lights for crossing traffic turn green as yours turn red, and some drivers have quick reflexes and fast-accelerating cars...

 

[STS134]

It seems like some of you needs new brake pads at 30k or 60k. So it is good to know that I should periodically check the brake when rotating tires. My 2012 Lexus CT200h is still on original brake pads at 80K miles but then Toyota has a different design than Outlander PHEV.

I think if you rarely to never charge to 100%, you should be fine for a long time. Although I think I may need to reset my BMU at some point, because Mitsubishi's management of the SoH seems to suck. I charged to 100% yesterday (I do this about once every 2-3 weeks) and saw the SoC readout on PHEV Watchdog show as 104.5%.

 

[STS134]

I once met a driver like that. She took the front bumper of my Jag @ 16000 Euro, flipped her Dodge van, hanging upside down in the belt for 20 minutes until liberated by the ambulance crew and fire brigade and caused 15 km traffic jam in the process. :roll:
Traffic lights for crossing traffic turn green as yours turn red, and some drivers have quick reflexes and fast-accelerating cars...

And I have seen plenty of drivers who slam the brakes and get rear ended and cause traffic jams too. What's your point? You need to do what's appropriate for the situation, and the car imposing these types of idiotic restrictions (i.e. ICE comes on because you demanded 100 kW of power for 3 seconds) is stupid.

 

[STS134]

mellobob, my thought exactly! Who cares? And if you do, why did you buy the car in the first place?

Going from ICE car to PHEV is a completely new paradigm. In some ways, you don't even know what to look for because you didn't think about some of this stuff. For example, the lack of a transmission. One of the things that annoys me about this car is the ridiculously high fuel consumption when I'm cruising along at 90-100 mph on Interstate 5, in conditions like this. It holds the RPM at around 3750-4166 the entire time, which is great for climbing hills at max power, but eats a ridiculous amount of fuel if the engine is more lightly loaded (I measured 22.9 miles per gallon for the entire trip, which included driving in other conditions, so I wouldn't be surprised if the consumption here was around 20 mpg or worse). The usual thing to do is to decrease RPM while keeping load constant by shifting to a higher gear, but of course the Outlander PHEV, lacking any sort of transmission, cannot do this, so it overrevs the engine and eats fuel. And you're going to blame me for not seeing this issue during a test drive? I mean, I had the power flow being displayed on my test drive, but there's absolutely no way to tell what the engine RPM is except by plugging in a OBDII adapter and using EvBatMon or PHEV Watchdog.

 

[jaapv]

I once met a driver like that. She took the front bumper of my Jag @ 16000 Euro, flipped her Dodge van, hanging upside down in the belt for 20 minutes until liberated by the ambulance crew and fire brigade and caused 15 km traffic jam in the process. :roll:
Traffic lights for crossing traffic turn green as yours turn red, and some drivers have quick reflexes and fast-accelerating cars...

And I have seen plenty of drivers who slam the brakes and get rear ended and cause traffic jams too. What's your point? You need to do what's appropriate for the situation, and the car imposing these types of idiotic restrictions (i.e. ICE comes on because you demanded 100 kW of power for 3 seconds) is stupid.

Well, Giant Minds hit the "charge" button before pulling a stunt like that; it reduces the ICE reaction time to virtually zero. :roll: Fortunately the driving style that seems to be prevalent in your area is not very common over here. Rear-ending at speed is pretty rare and people tend to respect the legal braking distance. The fine for driving too close is between 280 and 700 Euro.
You are only allowed to run an orange light if it is virtually impossible to stop - which is hard to prove in court of law. Otherwise (and this includes accelerating) : 230 euro... And there a cameras all over the place. If you have to slam on the brakes you were driving too fast in the first place. Californian traffic sounds like Russian style.

 

[Craigy]

In the U.K. lots of traffic lights are designed to not change when drivers are in the “dilemma zone”, so this mitigates this risk. They certainly don’t bother doing this in the states, unsure about the Netherlands.

 

[jaapv]

The usual thing to do is to decrease RPM while keeping load constant by shifting to a higher gear, but of course the Outlander PHEV, lacking any sort of transmission, cannot do this, so it overrevs the engine and eats fuel. And you're going to blame me for not seeing this issue during a test drive? I mean, I had the power flow being displayed on my test drive, but there's absolutely no way to tell what the engine RPM is except by plugging in a OBDII adapter and using EvBatMon or PHEV Watchdog.

This is complete nonsense. The engine and its electronics are designed to run at their most efficient speed. It is completely untrue that low revs are the most efficient. On an ICE/transmission car this can be different as you may be wasting power. In this case power not needed for moving the car will be stored in the battery, as the engine runs in the most efficient rev range.

 

[Tai626]

One of the graphics from Trex shows that around 100mph, there is almost no spare torque to run generator, assuming in a flat terrain, I think.
The 4cylinder ICE Outlander has the CVT. I am curious what is its mpg at 100mph. My guess is the same 20mpg just because of aerodynamic. The 6cy has the automatic 6 gears maybe hungrier?!

Tai