3 years old range on battery?

[moonrakre]

Hi,

I have just bought a 3 year and 2 month old Outlander PHEV, first registered February 2015. After I charge it the car says I have a 20 mile range and I get about 20 miles with the air con and headlamps turned off. It varies a bit from day to day but only by about a mile.

I was rather hoping for more, after the adverts says 32 miles and these batteries should last 10 years or more. So are my batteries knackered and are they covered by the warrantee?

What do you guys get from an early 2015 car now?

Best wishes

Adrian

 

[ChrisMiller]

Assuming you're in the UK (or northern Europe), you should find the estimated and actual range will increase with warmer temperatures (forecast next week, yippee!). My December 2015 PHEV often predicts less than 20 miles during winter, rising to 25 in summer, but I've never got near 30 miles. It's pretty hilly where I live, which reduces range compared to (say) Norfolk or the Netherlands.

 

[maby]

Ours is about 3 years and 7 months old now with about 43,000 miles on the clock. We bought it new and I've never got 32 miles EV from it even when brand new - the best I ever saw was 29 miles which was achieved at 30mph on flat, traffic free roads on a warm autumn day with aircon off.

The PHEV range is hit badly by cold weather - the first winter we had it (about 5 months old), I reckoned that I was doing well to get 16 miles EV range at temperatures around zero. These days - three and a half years old - I have been seeing EV ranges of around 18 to 20 miles at ambient temperatures of 10 to 15 degrees C.

As far as warranty is concerned, I'm not sure what response you'll get. When we bought ours (September 2014), there was a five year battery warranty, but that was only a warranty against battery failure, not degradation. If our car is still able to start and run, then the warranty does not apply. Mitsubishi subsequently improved the warranty to cover degradation, but they did not apply that retrospectively. I'm not sure when the warranty changed, but I think your car is too old to be covered by it.

 

[greendwarf]

I'm still getting around 25 miles guesstimate per charge (actual 26 when I checked against odometer a couple of weeks ago - assuming that is accurate :lol: ) after 3.5 years. 22,000 miles on clock with at least half of that daily commuting in Central London - so rarely above 30 mph and top up from half battery every night. Little use at weekends so most of the balance is longer high speed journeys holidays etc. inc. France & Ireland (once each) using ICE.

As already reported above, never got 32 miles but was more like 28 when new in September 2014 (warmer then!). Very few Rapid charges - which is supposed to be not that good for the battery in the long run, if too frequent (see manual).

However, like any car consumption also depends on how heavy your right foot is. I don't rush away between sets of lights etc. and then heavily brake but use the paddles to coast in stop/start traffic. So a more relaxed style of driving, taking up of opportunities to coast - now we have a lot of 20mph main roads in London, even gentle declines can be done "for free". I can get from Hampstead Heath to Camden just coasting.

Finally, just switched from winter to summer tyres and immediately noticed a significant reduction in rolling resistance - so brand & pressure will also effect consumption. Of course, 2hd hand you don't know how it has been driven in the past, so battery could well have been hammered.

 

[gobiman]

I still get over 20 miles on a good day. 2014 with 23k.
The reality is that batteries degrade over time and will degrade faster with more charging.
I had a Hertz rental PHEV a couple of years ago which was much newer than mine but similar mileage. However, had clearly been rapid charged regularly (they had one at the depot). As far as I could guess, its range was about two thirds of mine.

 

[moonrakre]

Many thanks thanks for all this. I am much more comfortable with what I am getting as it seems that it is not so much a problem with my car, more a general PHEV issue.

I am in Essex, so although we think we we have some hills they are pretty trivial compared to Wales or the Chilterns. One of the places I go is Harlow so the proliferation of roundabouts would be the main "geographical" feature!

I bought the vehicle as I no longer have to commute long distances and by far the majority of my regular journeys are 20 miles or less, so those should be EVable (if that is a word) in all but the winter. The main regular journey that I won't make on EV is to Chelmsford (15 miles) and back, so I am looking forward to the next heatwave!

How much effect do the paddles have? I find that around the roundabouts in Harlow and along the country roads I can avoid using the brakes if I pump up the paddles.

And does anyone know why the paddle which increase the dynamic braking is labelled minus, whereas to reduce it you use the plus? Seems bonkers.

I doubt that the warrantee will step up to the mark, the wording in the book seems pretty evasive, but I'll fill in the card to transfer the warrantee anyway.

Thanks also for the comment about rapid charging, my car came without a charge cable (thank goodness for eBay!) so the previous owner could well have relied on a rapid charger.

Thanks again and Best wishes

Adrian

 

[gobiman]

The biggest factor for range is the aircon.
Outside the extremes of winter and summer and motorways, turning it off and opening a window is a good range extender.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

In the UK, the warranty changed for cars registered after 1/1/15. It was one of the things I checked for when buying.

Ours has 40k miles on it, and the GOM has varied between 19 and 26 in the few weeks we've owned it. Strangely it seems to have a higher range after a long motorway journey, whereas it drops after urban journeys.

While you can save charge by not using aircon, it needs to be used fairly regularly to keep it working properly. It's cheaper to run the aircon than turn it off and have to regas it.

I still wonder about the labelling on the paddles. Does minus mean less speed? It doesn't really make sense...

 

[user 1877]

I still wonder about the labelling on the paddles. Does minus mean less speed? It doesn't really make sense...

I don’t know what your problem is. Minus for more regeneration and plus for less. It’s just like the drive mode selector, forward for reverse and backwards to go forwards. Entirely logical :lol:

 

[maby]

In the UK, the warranty changed for cars registered after 1/1/15. It was one of the things I checked for when buying.

Ours has 40k miles on it, and the GOM has varied between 19 and 26 in the few weeks we've owned it. Strangely it seems to have a higher range after a long motorway journey, whereas it drops after urban journeys.
....

As has been discussed here many times, ignore the range displayed on the instrument panel. The car guesses the remaining range based on your recent usage and battery performance - and usually gets it wrong - sometimes very wrong. The only figure that matters is the range that you actually achieve - charge it up fully, zero the odometer and keep an eye on the power flow display - when the engine kicks in and stays in, you have flattened the battery and your EV range will be the figure on the odometer.

 

[elm70]

My PHEV is over 4y old .. it will be 5y old at end of year .. and with ~84k miles

Recently ... I got on display my record high EV range .. 56km or 34 miles .. I never seen so high EV range before .. even if the SOH decreased since I got my PHEV 2nd hand ~ 18 months ago

As far as I know :

The EV range is based on SOH and last average consumption in the last km of the last trip .. which sometime for me is done very slowly .. since I'm living into a 30km/h max speed area.

In reality without AC and driving sensibly without exceeding 80km/h .. I can get 45km or 28miles in pure EV range .. even if my car is old.

I believe the only factors that is relevant on EV range is:
- The right foot attitude over the acceleration pedal.
- Drive in B0 and switch to B5 before slow down or press the braking pedal.
- The SOH of battery ... my old PHEV is still above 90% SOH .. so the original 52km range is only compromised by 10% .. that is 46km .. that I can still do when driving very carefully

The usage of AC .. or warming up the cabin ... or driving above 90km/h .. or accelerate faster .. or drive in B5 with continuous acceleration and deceleration (B0 allow to drive at constant speed in max efficiency) .. will cause less range then the ideal ... and as well this is impacted in the shown EV range on the MMCS

 

[elm70]

Hi,

I have just bought a 3 year and 2 month old Outlander PHEV, first registered February 2015. After I charge it the car says I have a 20 mile range and I get about 20 miles with the air con and headlamps turned off. It varies a bit from day to day but only by about a mile.

I was rather hoping for more, after the adverts says 32 miles and these batteries should last 10 years or more. So are my batteries knackered and are they covered by the warrantee?

What do you guys get from an early 2015 car now?

Best wishes

Adrian

Try to drive slowly on the last 2 km of your trip before putting the car on charge .. and you should see much higher value

As well ... EV range is decrised by 30% if AC is click on ... just switch off AC.. and EV range will jump up

Anyhow ... for know the status of your battery .. just get an OBD2 compatible adapter, and use EvBatMon or the WatchDog ... and you will know the real SOH ... which does impact the possible max range in EV only mode.

 

[elm70]

I still wonder about the labelling on the paddles. Does minus mean less speed? It doesn't really make sense...

I don’t know what your problem is. Minus for more regeneration and plus for less. It’s just like the drive mode selector, forward for reverse and backwards to go forwards. Entirely logical :lol:

Very logical :lol:

+ Paddle is used for decrease the regen brake from B5 down to B0
- Paddle is used for increase the regen brake from B0 up to B5

Default D is B2 ... so as soon as +/- is used .. D is gone and replaced by B1 or B3 ...

But .. after a gear change (from Forward to Backward , or to Park) .. and the car is back in Drive ... instead of Bx as last usage the car go back in D .. again very logical :lol:

Anyhow ... these paddle are in theory designed for support more convenient driving when going downhill ... but ... people still use these for change the driving behavior of the car, and maximize the regen braking

 

[ChrisMiller]

One of the places I go is Harlow so the proliferation of roundabouts would be the main "geographical" feature!

I go through Milton Keynes (the roundabout capital of the world) quite often. It drastically reduces ICE fuel consumption, as you drive at 60-70mph* on unrestricted dual carriageways, then brake for a roundabout every mile or so and then accelerate again. This works much better on an EV with rheostatic braking.

* You could drive at 30-40mph, but that would mean spending twice as long in MK

 

[moonrakre]

Anyhow ... for know the status of your battery .. just get an OBD2 compatible adapter, and use EvBatMon or the WatchDog ... and you will know the real SOH ... which does impact the possible max range in EV only mode.

Thank you for this. I am now ploughing through the options here.

There appear to be three apps of interest here : Torque, EvBatMon and Watchdog. EvBatMon costs upfront whereas Watchdog asks for a donation, but EvBatMon is on Google Play which means it has satisfied their security checks. Torque is something different but has a huge amount of info very cheap. So either EvBatMon or Watchdog will show the battery conditions but one of the things I am also interested in doing is to monitor the quantity of electricity that goes in through the charging cables. Are there any apps that can do that?

For years now I have monitored the costs of ownership of my cars through the app ACar (now owned by Fuelly), the bit of cost that is missing is the cost of the electricity. I may have to put a meter on my outside socket (and hope the lawn mower doesn't use a significant amount!). But if one of these apps can pick up the data that would be bonzer.

For the OBD2 I have ordered a Panlong Bluetooth OBD2 which claims to work with Torque so should work with the others. The alternative was the Vgate Icar pro at a higher price so if the Panlong doesn't work I'll be kicking myself for being a cheapskate!

Other than that the warmer weather today seems to have left me with more in the batteries on return from the Gym and Harlow - that's good news.

So soon I will know if my batteries have a Sense Of Humour - or does SOH mean State of Health?

Best Wishes

Adrian

 

[elm70]

Ups ...

I should have mention that both EVBatMon and WatchDog works only with a small selection of ODB2 adapters
The EvbatMon has a web site which mention which OBD2 have been proven to be working, possibly similar is on facebook page of the WatchDog

The Battery information and SOH (sort of sense of humor from Mitsubishi, since it is questionable how they did implement the State of health of the battery) , as far as I know they can't be seen using Torque , or at least not in a easy way

The WatchDog can be consider safe, even if it is not in Android Play Store

Amount of consumed electricity can be monitored over the MMCS .. there is a dedicated page that show the last charge and the counters of previous days and months .. only requirement is to set the cost per kwh in the MMCS

 

[ChrisMiller]

Amount of consumed electricity can be monitored over the MMCS

The GX3 is the UK base model and I don't think it has MMCS. I wish Mitsi had a global naming system for their different models, but perhaps the configs are different in different countries. FWIW, I find charging from 'empty' takes about 10kWh of electricity. Perhaps use a clamp meter if you need an accurate reading?

 

[elm70]

Amount of consumed electricity can be monitored over the MMCS

The GX3 is the UK base model and I don't think it has MMCS. I wish Mitsi had a global naming system for their different models, but perhaps the configs are different in different countries. FWIW, I find charging from 'empty' takes about 10kWh of electricity. Perhaps use a clamp meter if you need an accurate reading?

"Empty" is a tricky concept .. since battery can be discharged in EV mode down to 30% or down to 25% based on how are driven the last km

Anyhow 10kwh is the max charging you may see, if your battery is as good as new, and the "Empty" was down to 25%

In my case I see normally 8.5kwh max ... rarely around 9.0kwh .. and my battery SOH is 90.5%

About monitoring without MMCS

I recently got locally something similar to this: https://www.banggood.com/TS-836B-Digital-Energy-Meter-Socket-Plug-in-Electric-Power-Meter-Energy-Monitor-LCD-Display-p-1243110.html ... and it is looking quite good ... they make this (or clones) with any possible plug .. so I'm sure you can get it cheap in some local UK shop too.

I also find this that is maybe quite nice: https://www.banggood.com/Broadlink-Wifi-Smart-Plug-SP3S-Power-Meter-Monitor-16A-Timer-Socket-Outlet-Remote-Wireless-Control-p-1249628.html .. maybe it does report over WIFi the consumption ... but apparently only EU plug .. but I'm sure there are also UK version too , after some better search

 

[ThudnBlundr]

I was recommended the TP-Link version, which is remotely controlled and has wifi

 

[elm70]

I was recommended the TP-Link version, which is remotely controlled and has wifi

A bit more expensive then the Chinese version ... but it is looking to be worth it

Now that I know that nice WiFi switch exist ... I may have to buy a couple of them sometime in the future

If I could even monitor the 3 phase power that does control my home electric heating system .. will be a must have for me ... I have already a Orange Board PC at home that handle my alarm motion sensors, home temperature and cameras that I have at home ... I'm just missing to control the power consumption in the most relevant point :ugeek: