2018 Canadian PHEV wont run in ev.

[johnwilson]

Hi, First time posting here. We have a PHEV with 65,000 km on it and it started acting up last year. It could not be forced into EV mode when it was below 10C out, which is a lot of the year here. We took it in for a recall of the engine start relay ( it apparently could freeze resulting in the problem we were experiencing). It seemed that the repair fixed the problem and we were able to run in ev as long as we did not use the defrost. In November of 2020 it started acting up again and would always start the engine below 10c, no matter what we did. We took it to the dealer and they said nothing was wrong with it. I contacted MM Canada and they said that nothing was wrong with it . Their position is contradicted by the manual, which says you can run it in ev as long as the defrost in not depressed. So we have been running the car as an ICE car for the last 5 months and really dont know where to turn.

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
John Wilson

 

[jaapv]

I don't really know about the later models (yet ) but at low temperatures under 10º C the car will start the ICE to provide cabin heating.

 

[greendwarf]

With due respect to jaapv his reply is misleading. The car can run on EV under 10c - I do it every day in Winter - but it is at the expense of cabin heating i.e. I have to have the internal temperature set to minimum (and wear a thick & gloves :lol: ).

The "problem" is that the car is designed to reserve the battery charge for propulsion at the expense of everything else. So if you want to be warm in low temperatures then the car will run the ICE. The only way of dealing with this in the short term is to pre-heat the cabin via the wifi control just before you set off. If you do this whilst still plugged into a charger you should be able to "top up" the battery at the same time - so you leave with a warm car and full battery in ev mode.

 

[johnwilson]

Thank you for the replies. My problem however is that for the first two years the car responded as the manual for the car said it would and that is when the temperature was low in our case below 3C, the engine would start if the defrost button was depressed even when the car was in ev mode, but if you started the car in ev and did not depress the defrost button, you could operate it in ev, until you accelerated agressively or ran at high speed. We were always able to run it in ev mode no matter how low the temperature.
Now the car starts the ice at any temperature and will only go to ev after the ice is up to operating temperature and even then it will return to ice if the outside temperature is 10c or below after the ice has cooled a bit.
Very frustrating as we are not able to use the charge unless we are going for a 100km or more trip, then the ev mode will gradually use up the battery.
This makes the ownership of a PHEV pretty much equivalent to a non plug in hybrid.

 

[user 3575]

I don't really know about the later models (yet ) but at low temperatures under 10º C the car will start the ICE to provide cabin heating.

I have noticed our is about 6 degrees C, in the early days it was a big thing, now with a bit more owner experience I don't worry

 

[kpetrov]

Hi, First time posting here. We have a PHEV with 65,000 km on it and it started acting up last year. It could not be forced into EV mode when it was below 10C out, which is a lot of the year here...

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
John Wilson

John, same here. I didn't own it the winter before the recall of the engine start relay and can't be 100% sure but you are the sixth person that report no EV availability after this recall. They are performing and BMU update in the same time.
I have made the mistake to submit my vehicle to this recall and once the temp. hit 5 Celsius the engine will warm up itself no matter what.
I am now confident they are intentionally doing it in order to reduce the claims under warranty (engine cold damages).
You can blame them without any remorse.

 

[johnwilson]

Hi Kpetrov, The dealer is making me feel like a madman. After they installed the new relay, the car worked perfectly until summer. We couldnt tell whether there was a problem over the summer because of no under 10 C temps. Come October however it was apparent that the car could not be forced into ev and the problem has only got worse with little to no ev use on trips up to 60 km.
This renders the car totally inefficient on trips to the gym or just into town.
The dealer can not decide what the story is; whether it was the relay or a software change. I contacted the mechanic today and he said it was done to protect the battery, but not having ev functionality below 10c ( he says 13c) renders the phev ability useless for half the year where we live.
In addition he said that they charge to balance the battery ( 280 dollars) . Our car has 65K on it and I would think that that would be a warranty issue on equipment that makes the car move.
The manual says that forcing into ev is a normal thing and MM Canada has removed basic functionality of the car.
What are your thoughts? Where can I read about the problem the other 6 car owners have had and why are there only 6 problems. The dealer says that I am the only customer having this problem.
Thanks,
John

 

[user 3575]

In the UK the area were we live the winter temperatures are quite mild, with the outside temperature at near zero or slightly below even without pre heating, If the heating is in the off position, press the EV button then switch on the heater it uses the battery.

I

 

[jaapv]

If you run the car until everything has heated up, or after keeping the car in a heated garage, does it do EV then?
This is basically normal behaviour. Under 10º the ICE will start up and run for a few kms to heat up the engine to prevent further deep cold starts at high revs and to provide initial heating -except for the older model trick described by Greendwarf. The lower the outside temperature, the longer it will run, despite the EV switch being activated - the switch is not an absolute one, if the software deems it necessary it will be overridden. I don't know what the settings are in extremely cold climates. It may well be that Mitsubishi has different parameters for different local conditions.
We do know from European winters, e.g Poland and Norway, that the lower the temperature, the more the car starts behaving like a normal hybrid and the less like an EV. At a certain point it will run on ICE only, there is even a cut-off temperature (-30º IIRC, but I may be wrong) that it won't run at all.
This is not done to protect the battery, but is caused by declining battery capacity with lower temperatures.
You are right that this type of car is not very suitable for extremely cold conditions unless it has battery heating.

 

[jaapv]

With due respect to jaapv his reply is misleading. The car can run on EV under 10c - I do it every day in Winter - but it is at the expense of cabin heating i.e. I have to have the internal temperature set to minimum (and wear a thick & gloves :lol: ).

The "problem" is that the car is designed to reserve the battery charge for propulsion at the expense of everything else. So if you want to be warm in low temperatures then the car will run the ICE. The only way of dealing with this in the short term is to pre-heat the cabin via the wifi control just before you set off. If you do this whilst still plugged into a charger you should be able to "top up" the battery at the same time - so you leave with a warm car and full battery in ev mode.

Yes, that is true for the old model. I'll experiment with the new model (I got mine with the 2.4 engine and EV switch only yesterday). Night temperatures are still below 10º so it should be easy to find out.
I'm not as spartan as you are with bobble hat and skiing gloves, I am quite happy to let the car do its heating and ICE preserving thing, and switch on the seat heater as well. :lol: I find the preheating impractical; I do not leave at fixed times and the app is an abomination.

 

[littlescrote]

My UK 2016 does not run the ICE no matter what the outside temperature is (unless called upon for heat or acceleration) so it's either a fault or a country specific calibration.

It's not the real answer, but have you tried fooling the outside temperature sensor with a resistor to make it think it's warmer than it is?

 

[user 3575]

If you run the car until everything has heated up, or after keeping the car in a heated garage, does it do EV then?
This is basically normal behaviour. Under 10º the ICE will start up and run for a few kms to heat up the engine to prevent further deep cold starts at high revs and to provide initial heating -except for the older model trick described by Greendwarf. The lower the outside temperature, the longer it will run, despite the EV switch being activated - the switch is not an absolute one, if the software deems it necessary it will be overridden. I don't know what the settings are in extremely cold climates. It may well be that Mitsubishi has different parameters for different local conditions.
We do know from European winters, e.g Poland and Norway, that the lower the temperature, the more the car starts behaving like a normal hybrid and the less like an EV. At a certain point it will run on ICE only, there is even a cut-off temperature (-30º IIRC, but I may be wrong) that it won't run at all.
This is not done to protect the battery, but is caused by declining battery capacity with lower temperatures.
You are right that this type of car is not very suitable for extremely cold conditions unless it has battery heating.

Our UK 2020 Mitsubishi owners manual highlight in extreme low temperature 7-26 EV Mode not available battery too cold

 

[kpetrov]

Hi Kpetrov, The dealer is making me feel like a madman. After they installed the new relay, the car worked perfectly until summer. We couldnt tell whether there was a problem over the summer because of no under 10 C temps. Come October however it was apparent that the car could not be forced into ev and the problem has only got worse with little to no ev use on trips up to 60 km.
This renders the car totally inefficient on trips to the gym or just into town.
The dealer can not decide what the story is; whether it was the relay or a software change. I contacted the mechanic today and he said it was done to protect the battery, but not having ev functionality below 10c ( he says 13c) renders the phev ability useless for half the year where we live.
In addition he said that they charge to balance the battery ( 280 dollars) . Our car has 65K on it and I would think that that would be a warranty issue on equipment that makes the car move.
The manual says that forcing into ev is a normal thing and MM Canada has removed basic functionality of the car.
What are your thoughts? Where can I read about the problem the other 6 car owners have had and why are there only 6 problems. The dealer says that I am the only customer having this problem.
Thanks,
John

So after the relay change the car was able to drive in EV mode even in cold temperatures? Did the problem emerged only the next winter?
Then it may have the battery state of health (capacity) set in to the parameters that govern the engine start-up as well.
I know of few owners that report this problem after a visit to the dealership for this recall. They confirmed that the vehicle is acting differently than before. Otherwise a lot more people are complaining regarding those unwanted ICE startups. Facebook PHEV groups are full of them.
Battery protection reasoning is dubious claim. All BEV are ruining in cold temperatures. Only the range and max current output is reduced.
They are doing it to protect the ICE from ignorant users and to maintain the advertised vehicle parameters or they may be liable for any sort of claims.
I have run my PHEV all winter with ICE disabled (relay removed) even in -20 Celsius. No problems at all. It is less powerful but at this temp. I am gentle on the accelerator. My battery degradation rate is no different than the summer one. Was warming properly the engine once per week or two on a longer trips.

 

[johnwilson]

So after the relay change the car was able to drive in EV mode even in cold temperatures? Did the problem emerged only the next winter?
Then it may have the battery state of health (capacity) set in to the parameters that govern the engine start-up as well.
I know of few owners that report this problem after a visit to the dealership for this recall. They confirmed that the vehicle is acting differently than before. Otherwise a lot more people are complaining regarding those unwanted ICE startups. Facebook PHEV groups are full of them.
Battery protection reasoning is dubious claim. All BEV are ruining in cold temperatures. Only the range and max current output is reduced.
They are doing it to protect the ICE from ignorant users and to maintain the advertised vehicle parameters or they may be liable for any sort of claims.
I have run my PHEV all winter with ICE disabled (relay removed) even in -20 Celsius. No problems at all. It is less powerful but at this temp. I am gentle on the accelerator. My battery degradation rate is no different than the summer one. Was warming properly the engine once per week or two on a longer trips.


Hi kpetrov: The relay was replaced in May and I believe that we were then able to drive in EV mode in cold temperatures. I am sure that we had a few mornings with frost, because I remember being thrilled that it was back to its old self. It was in cold weather the following fall that the problem appeared again. I am not 100 percent sure of this however.
John

 

[johnwilson]

Re: 2018 Canadian PHEV wont run in ev.
ReportQuote
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:16 am

My UK 2016 does not run the ICE no matter what the outside temperature is (unless called upon for heat or acceleration) so it's either a fault or a country specific calibration.

It's not the real answer, but have you tried fooling the outside temperature sensor with a resistor to make it think it's warmer than it is?


Hi Littlescrot,
It is beginning to sound like it might be a new country specific calibration, because like you our 2018 PHEV ran in ev regardless of the temperature as long as you pressed the ev button before you started the car and as well the defrost was not on. This was how it worked for the first two years. Now it seems as if the ev button does absolutely nothing and the car will start the ice below 11c and run the ice for most of a 60km trip with a few short periods of ev inbetween.

I havent tried a resistor in series with the temp sensor. Do you know where it is and what the value of the resistor should be?

 

[littlescrote]

I havent tried a resistor in series with the temp sensor. Do you know where it is and what the value of the resistor should be?

There are a few threads about it on here, or possibly on the PHEV Facebook group, do a search and you should find it.

 

[Smurali]

I have the same problem with my 2018 PHEV. As soon as I start, I put it in eco, ev and after driving around 300 meters generally, the engine turns on. Though I have also noticed I am able to drive on ev after the engine warms up and its off most of the way. Mitsu basically told me all is well with car.

 

[kpetrov]

I havent tried a resistor in series with the temp sensor. Do you know where it is and what the value of the resistor should be?

Don't bother. Do you think I have tried to fool the engine coolant temp. sensor before the ambient temperature one.
The ambient was the firs I have tried to fool without success.
I fooled and the indoor temperature sensor to a higher reading with an parallel resistor and a switch so I can control more gradually the electric heater in a cold weather.

 

[johnwilson]

There seems to be conflicting info on this site as to whether a 2k resistor in the ambient air sensor plug allows the car to be run as an EV when below 13c. I would consider this mod if it worked. Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get a 2018 PHev to run on ev between -5 and 13C consistently. I do not care about the heater controls and am happy to leave the heat off for most of the short trips I take when the temp is between -5 and +13C. At these temperatures the ICE always starts with a roar and I feel I am hurting the car.

I feel MMCanada has totally ripped me off, selling me one car; one that would operate on EV in cool weather for the first 2 years and now it will not operate in cool weather as on EV. It always starts, and starts at very high revs.

 

[jaapv]

Starting at exceedingly high revs when full power is not demanded sounds like a fault to me, especially if it did not do so for the first two years. I would claim a guaranty repair and refuse to be fobbed off. Doesn't Canada have customer protection laws?